Epson 8500UB 200,000:1 CR - Page 2

OMG.. that is exactly the sound my 6500UB makes and I could not figure out what it was. Now it makes sense.

yup. The IRIS on the 6500 is a major downer for me. I'm on my second unit and it's just as loud as the first one. If they havnt fixed the IRIS on the 8500 then I will not buy one.

I did not know that! do the current Panny and Sanyo models suffer from the same noise?

Will there be Convergence correction feature?
My 1080UB Red panel has 1 pixel off from Blue/Green!

I am so torn on buying the 6500 now or waiting for the 8500. This will be my first projector purchase and I have already done a ton of research. I'm bummed I missed the double cashback on bing, I would have pulled the trigger had I known about it. Any advice on if I should wait or just go ahead and do it? It would be nice to have it for the football season and not wait till November. I just get scared off my all the issues I have read about on here. Thanks for any advice!

No one really knows anything right now is the problem...it's all speculation. I do agree that hopefully they have calmed the iris...I was at a customers place last night calibrating and when we were watching scenes it kept going open and close, making the noise. A might bit irritating to me.

Mine sits about 1.5 feet above and behind my head and I can clearly hear it on quiet scenes.

The other things I am trying to figure out if is there a way to tighten the focus ring. I keep getting focus drift but I will post that question on the 6500UB thread.

Isnt that the point? Make it as confusing as possible so people just buy the biggest number even if its not the highest true contrast.

You couldnt sell a 200000:1 LCD next to an 80000:1 JVC if you saw both but if you look at the numbers the LCD seems better to an uninformed buyer.

there are lies, damn lies, and PJ specs.

Why not follow the numbers games like Panasonic and Samsung did with their plasma TVs. WOW, those TVs have a 1,000,000:1 contrast!!! They must have perfect black levels right? I don't think so. Not even close.

Marketing folks don't call these kind of number games lies, they prefer the term "good business" instead. It eases their conscience (or do they have one?).

Epson will always sell more than JVC even if Epson said it was only 20,000:1 because it still has the advantage in the most important number: $2600 vs $5900, and you can't fake those numbers

The Epson so far seems like a good bang for the buck for what you get.

I am excited to see the new 8500 offerings CT_WIEBE the reason why I only watch movies in a dark room is that I dont have cable or sattelite, and my kids watch shows on a seperate TV via Netflix. I also dont have an HTPC.

In a dark environment, if I have lets say dark grey walls etc - minimimal reflection. What does one look for in contrast on these new units? Does one look for a projector that is dimmer or brighter? I dont want to get such a sharp view that it will be a strain on the eyes.

Any news on Epson Models? Was hoping to see something before the weekend officially started.

Dave

How old is the unit? There was an issue with focus shifting in the original release (there is a fix for it).

Less than 2-3 months old. It came with 1.09FW and FI fix. Do you happen to know what the fix was? Is it user applied or factory?

Factory but that would unlikely be the problem...they fixed the focus issue earlier this year. If you call Epson tech support with your serial number they should be able to check it.

Jason, are you gonna have a power buy for one of the Epson projectors like last year?

padgettl -- AFIK, Epson has fixed all but the noisy iris (as noted in the other posts on this page, and the recent ones) on the 6500UB/7500UB. The 8500UB won't be available for at least several months (November/December time frame is my estimate - Jason Turk should have better info though).

Remember that any new PJ may well have teething pains. If you are really itching to get a PJ, the 6500UB is your best bet. Yes the new models should be better. However, if you want it for watching HDTV & sports (with an occasional movie, once or twice a week), and want some ambient light in the room, then the new models won't give you any real improvement, IMHO & YMMV. Only AVS members that are super picky about image quality (and there are a lot of them) can really benefit from the newest models.

I bought my first 1080p PJ last October. Would I like a new one, yes, definitely! Would it really look better than my existing one (in my normal viewing environment), highly unlikely. Until there are major improvements in the technology, I'll be satisfied with what I have for another year or two, at least.

Studio2000 -- As I said before, you look for better black levels & detail in the shadows (in darker scenes). Don't fret about excessive image brightness. All PJs have adjustments to reduce the screen illumination to satisfy your needs (especially in your light controlled HT room). The only thing you have to worry about is if the PJ is bright enough to give you a satisfying picture on your sized screen in your viewing environment. Only you can answer that question.

Almost all PJs are bright enough to light up a 100" to 110" screen. It's only when you want to project from the maximum projection distance onto a very large screen, that the lumen output may not be sufficient. That's why you need to read the reviews on the PJs you are considering. I recommend Art's reviews - www.projectorreviews.com (he does a very thorough job of covering the details).

Yes...anyone interested drop me an email.

Jason

Just sent you an email asking where I can pay. I want a 8500.

Jerry

"Only AVS members that are super picky". You know, you could use the same kind of argument to promote a $599 projector, too.

We have no previews of the new Epson yet, so it's not possible right now to judge whether it will bring a noticeably improvement in image quality or not. Ambient light destroys ANSI contrast, but not on/off contrast. So the improvement in on/off contrast might be quite noticeable. Also the video processing seems to be improved (sharpness without edge enhancement, improved frame interpolation). Both might show significant improvements even with HDTV & sports in ambient light. Finally, if they finally did fix the dynamic iris noise, I would consider that quite a big upgrade, too.

I won't even consider the new Epson if they havn't fixed the IRIS noise. I leave it off, and Im not getting the blacks I should be getting but it's preferable to listening to a machine gun going off over my head the whole movie. I really hope Epson paid attention, and did something to fix the damn noise.

A member here in the 6500 owners thread acutally took his projector apart and lubed up the gears that control the IRIS and the noise all but vanished! How cheap is Epson that they can't lube up the gears that control it? Anyway enough of this rant. The Epson is still giving me the best picture I've ever had from a Projector. Better then my previous Sony VW60 and BenqW5000.

The JVC are tempting and no need to worry about IRIS noise, but it's hard to justify double the price for an incremental improvement.

Depends on what is meant by "ambient light". Reflections (like from white walls) themselves kill ANSI CR, don't hurt on/off CR (as long as there isn't light spewing out of the projector other than that going straight to to the screen), and have some small effect on MTF at full resolution (like a 1 pixel white-black pattern).

Other lights turned on or light streaming into the room will kill on/off CR quickly, takes more to kill ANSI CR, and yet more to kill MTF at full resolution. The reason being that what is considered good for each of those categories has different ft-lamberts for black, with on/off CR needing the lowest, then ANSI CR, then black during the MTF test at full resolution. For instance, if good for on/off CR is considered 5k:1, good for ANSI CR is considered 300:1, and good for MTF at full resolution is 5:1, then with white at 10 ft-lamberts black will be .002 ft-lamberts, .033 ft-lamberts, and 2 ft-lamberts worth of light from the projector respectively. So, .002 ft-lamberts worth of other lighting on or coming in would take the on/off CR off the screen to half, but would have little effect on ANSI CR or MTF at full resolution. Not including room reflections that hurt ANSI CR and MTF, .033 ft-lamberts of other lighting would take ANSI CR off the screen to half, but would have little effect on MTF at full resolution.

The other lighting from having room lights on or light streaming into the room is somewhat similar to raising the Brightness setting for the projector too much. It can kill on/off CR and hardly effect ANSI CR or MTF at full resolution. This is one reason I find it interesting that some in the industry who have argued about on/off CR not mattering and ANSI CR being the one that matters still take care to set their Brightness setting correctly. A few points too high and the ANSI CR differences might not even be measurable, but the images would look much worse overall mostly because of what was done to on/off CR.

--Darin

@Darin, you're right, of course. I must have been sleeping when writing that. I was thinking of reflections from white walls/ceilings. Ambient light coming from light sources other than the projector is a different thing, of course. Thanks for correcting me there.

madshi -- And I was referring to the ambient light situation, which is most common when watching HDTV & sports programming. To me, the room wall/ceiling color (& reflectivity) effects are a (slightly) different subject, at least in my mind. I should have been more specific, too (thanks for the reminder, Darin).

Still, it will be most interesting to read the reviews on the 8500UB, when they get released. I'm guessing it will be the new CR king-of-the-hill for 2010. I'm waiting until Epson comes out with it's next generation D8 panels (C3Fine anyone? - or maybe a 4K or 2.35:1 panel, or both).

The site aboutprojectors.com has posted Product Sheets for these three projectors. [Sorry, cannot post URLs.] The 5500 might be known as the 8500UB in the U.S.

Other than the contrast ratio and light output, the three projectors share the same specs for the LCD panels, lenses, inputs, and warranties. Where they differ:

- The 4400 adds (over the 3500): frame interpolation, direct power on.
- The 5500 adds (over the 4400): HQV and 12-bit panel driver, deepblack technology, 4:4 pull-down, picture noises reductions, ISF calibration, colour isolation mode, anamorphic lens compatible.

[No, I don't know any details for the above terms; they come straight from Epson's document.]

In the "projection distances" table, I'm guessing that the distance for the "wide" setting for 100" should be 3.0m, not 6.0m.

Welcome to the forum. I will post the links for the 5500 & 4400 projectors.
The PDF's Product Sheets are interesting:

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Epson...projector.html

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Epson...projector.html

From those Product sheets, it looks like the biggest difference between the TW4400 and the TW5500 is the "Deepblack technology", the "ISF calibration", and the "HQV processor" (only on the TW5500). That is similar to the differences between the "Home Cinema 6500UB" and the "Pro Cinema 7500UB".

The question remains, which is the 8500UB?

As for specs, the TW5500 (currently) has a native contrast ratio of ~9500:1 on the pre-production units. It throws a really nice picture and hopefully it will be a nice upgrade from the previous model.

It is very difficult to see what the real differences between the 4400 &5500 are from the data sheet. They do say that both have HQV processors but that the 5500 has the new HQV processor. They also state that the 5500 has a much better contrast ratio and ISF calibration settings. If this is true it will be a break from the past. The 6500 & & 7500 are quite similar except for the isf calibration settings and anamorphic options.

We will have to wait unit later this week to find out what the real differences are.
It should be interesting.

Thanks for the heads up. It doesn't sound too good to me, though, because cine4home already measured last year's TW5000 with about 9000:1 native contrast ratio. So where is the progress which justifies the jump from 100k:1 to 200k:1 in the spec sheet?