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Have subwoofers improved over the past 10 years?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Lots of electronic equipment is better than they were 10 years ago, e.g. blu-ray vs. vhs, 5.1 vs dolby surround, etc...

Can you think of any true technological advances in subwoofers other than cosmetic and "sales pitches", i.e. remotes, wireless, etc...?
post #2 of 14
there have been some improvements. amps are better and more efficient, the drivers i'm sure have improved as well.
post #3 of 14
Undoubtedly yes. Just look at the Ultra driver for instance and even the JLAudio driver in the F113. Those designs have really improved the capabilities if the 12-13" sized drivers. I mean the SVS Ultra driver is insane.
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantasteve View Post

Lots of electronic equipment is better than they were 10 years ago, e.g. blu-ray vs. vhs, 5.1 vs dolby surround, etc...

Can you think of any true technological advances in subwoofers other than cosmetic and "sales pitches", i.e. remotes, wireless, etc...?

Actually, yes. The introduction of Class D amplification has allowed for ultra high powered amplifier modules which run drastically cooler and conserve more energy.
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post #5 of 14
yup
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantasteve View Post

Can you think of any true technological advances in subwoofers other than cosmetic and "sales pitches", i.e. remotes, wireless, etc...?

Naaaah, not really. Subs are no better now than they were 10 years ago. And Hollywood knows this. They are not putting any deeper bass on soundtracks now than they were 10 years ago. 35 Hz at 100 dB is all you need. There is no deeper bass on soundtracks, and you definitely don't need more output than this. Anybody that says otherwise is just f'in' with ya.

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Naaaah, not really. Subs are no better now than they were 10 years ago. And Hollywood knows this. They are not putting any deeper bass on soundtracks now than they were 10 years ago. 35 Hz at 100 dB is all you need. There is no deeper bass on soundtracks, and you definitely don't need more output than this. Anybody that says otherwise is just f'in' with ya.


LOL, eh...
post #8 of 14
Class D amps, ICE modules are improvements in amps, not subs. The diaphragms are made with more exotic materials to be lighter and stiffer, VC are made of better material and wound wider, magnets are bigger and have stronger fields, different yokes, new surround materials and tall surrounds... All this is to get more displacement for the consumer's demand for more volume. Boxes are boxes. Probably the biggest improvements are in the modeling and design software. It is now better and more affordable. But this is due to computer improvements.

Reproducing bass sounds is mostly a brute force process. We can now get louder and lower, but thats come about due to the improvements in recording. So, can we reproduce sounds better than we could 10 years, not really. But we can get more accurate reproduction at affordable prices.
post #9 of 14
Yes.

New driver technologies: XBL^2, Split Coil, Differential Drive, LMS
New enclosure technologies: Tapped horn

Prices are lower for everything, drivers and amps.
Regardless of driver tech the drivers available now have MUCH more available displacement than drivers of 10 years ago... think 18" drivers with 50mm of XMax vs 12" drivers with 7mm of XMax...
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

So, can we reproduce sounds better than we could 10 years, not really. But we can get more accurate reproduction at affordable prices.

I see that very differently. Could a sub, ten years ago, produce 115 db at 20 Hz (or lower) in a home theater with reasonable distortion in a box smaller than a large refrigerator and costing less than a large SUV? I think not. As has been mentioned previously, improved drivers, surrounds, amps, modeling all have played into greatly improved subs. I've been in the game a REALLY long time. Subs have greatly improved ..... greatly!
post #11 of 14
While the tippy-top in terms of subwoofer driver design is maybe only a little better than ~10 years ago (I'm thinking of drivers such as the JBL 2235H, McCauley 6174, Aura NRT-1808, and Avatar/Adire Tumult Mk. II, and the TC Sounds OEM'ed Audio-X-Stream and Crystal Sounds underhung drivers, with the Avatar/Adire Shiva and NHT 1259 being the budget stars of the time) there have been some noteworthy changes since then.

1) More convergence towards best-practices design. A decade ago, the typical "high end" subwoofer driver was likely to have a stamped steel frame with no under-spider ventilation (all of the drivers above except the Shiva had cast frames, and the Aura had under-spider ventilation), no Faraday rings in the motor to control inductance, and relatively short throw. Since drivers such as the Peerless XLS line (probably a bit less than a decade old, but not much far removed from that point) started pointing the way, more drivers have moved towards more sophisticated motors with shorting rings and low inductance, along with cleaner suspension designs.

2) Lower cost for outstanding performance. A decade ago, performance very near today's SOTA was available. Today, performance at that level costs much, much less. Thanks, China Price!

And along with better, cheaper drivers, there are three other advances that endow subwoofer systems with much greater potential for high-fidelity bass reproduction, in what I consider order of importance (the better drivers would be #4 on the below list):

1) Computer-based measurement solutions. A decade ago, good measurements were hard to come by, because tools were so crude. The typical serious audio hobbyist had something like a Rat Shack analog SPL meter and a test disk such as "Sound Check with Alan Parsons and Stephen Court" that had test tones on it (Mobile Fidelity SPCD-15). Now. a serious audio hobbyist has a calibrated measurement mic (or several, because spatial averaging is a better way to take measurements in situ) and a program such as FuzzMeasure Pro to take in-room MLS measurements.

2) DSP equalization. A decade ago, there was crude and expensive analog equalization available through parts such as the Marchand Bassis and AudioControl Richter Scale. Today, there are plenty of digital solutions available that are more flexible and often cheaper than the analog ones, or even integrated into amplifiers. And that's just to tailor low-end response. Systems such as Audyssey MultEQ XT also correct response within the passband, for higher-fidelity reproduction.

3) Wider availability of "novel" amp designs such as Class D, Class H, and Class G. These newer, lighter designs (especially when coupled with cheaper, lighter switch-mode power supplies) allow more power with higher efficiency and lower cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I see that very differently. Could a sub, ten years ago, produce 115 db at 20 Hz (or lower) in a home theater with reasonable distortion in a box smaller than a large refrigerator and costing less than a large SUV?

Yes. A driver such as the Adire Tumult with a Crown K2 could have gotten you there back then in a reasonably-sized box. (In commercial subs, maybe 2-4 of the NHT subs with their 1259 driver, assuming it was used outside of the Model 3.3?) But equivalent performance is much cheaper now.
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Naaaah, not really. Subs are no better now than they were 10 years ago. And Hollywood knows this. They are not putting any deeper bass on soundtracks now than they were 10 years ago. 35 Hz at 100 dB is all you need. There is no deeper bass on soundtracks, and you definitely don't need more output than this. Anybody that says otherwise is just f'in' with ya.


Just like computers never needing more than 640k of memory.
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

Just like computers never needing more than 640k of memory.

Did you mean 64K?
post #14 of 14
OT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Did you mean 64K?

I remember buying a 16k external RAM module for my Timex Sinclair back in 1982 from K-Mart for $150...yea it also read from cassette tape and had a thermal printer.
Got me thru Engineering school with it's BASIC language programming.

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