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Gladiator (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 3

post #61 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by moovtune View Post

I was wrong - Braveheart is an ICON/LADD Company/PARAMOUNT release here in the USA. Not Dreamworks (as was Gladiator). Perhaps in the UK Fox has distribution rights - lucky for you you get a DTS track. But that brings up an interesting point concerning release variations and who calls the shots. Because Gladiator was Universal/Dreamworks it gets a DTS track - Braveheart here is Paramount so it gets a True HD track, but if Fox releases it elsewhere it gets a DTS track. Which studio is actually in charge of overseeing these variations and who has the final say or "OK's" the thing for release? Who supplies the film master used for the Blu-Ray - which company is used for the encoding/mastering - somebody Dreamworks prefers, Universal prefers, Fox prefers or more than one?

I believe Icon oversee transfers of their productions and thus Mel Gibson or someone working for his company ensures they get great transfers.

Interestingly The Descent was released by Icon in Australia and that one had a superb transfer with the original UK color timing and contrast look to it.

Fox distributes Braveheart all over Europe and in Brazil as well.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Ralph's statement is correct. No one had exceeded the boundaries in this thread. But, my concerned stemmed from the other Gladiator fights spilling over into this area. Plus, we've had some rather nasty comments and conduct recently in the review area...this being for the first time. I felt the need to put out the general warning. I made the decision for better or worse. I didn't mean to come across like we were sending in a swat team to issue a j-walking ticket. Please remember that as moderators we see the nasty side of AVS...many posts that never are seen by the general membership (since they are deleted) have really degenerated over the last couple of years. The lack of civility is frightening. So if I come across as heavy handed I do apologize.

Rboster: I feel you man! You must have just come from the same "town hall meeting" on health care reform that I recently attended.

I look forward to Ralph's unbiased and extremely intelligent BD reviews. He is the best reviewer in the biz. He has taught me how to critically evaluate AQ and PQ -- my humble opinion.
post #63 of 122
Paramount should have done better for PQ of this film than this cause the movie was newer than Braveheart which the BD was amazing PQ,no halo effects or edge enhancements.I was quite disappointed,maybe too high expectation.
post #64 of 122
I was thinking about getting Gladiator on Blu-ray, but it sounds like I would be a little disappointed with the video. Too bad.
post #65 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVisone View Post

--snip--

grubavs
Zulu? I have been haunted by the famailarity of that from the first time I heard it, and sometime ago, when I was watching Zulu, i thought----where have i heard that before???Then sometime later, it dawned on me. Is it a direct steal from Zulu? I do not know, but it is certainly a repeat of the same sound, for sure.

I'm pretty sure it's actual soundtrack from Zulu. It's kind of eerie. Makes that scene a bit off, but then the real fighting starts and everything is perfect again...
post #66 of 122
Great review Ralph!

The review is right on spot...
It is a pitty what they have done with this movie...
post #67 of 122
I'm terribly disappointed too! In most spots it looks exactly like the DVD running through the Rialto processor in my Denon. There are certain sections I always look at when comparing equipment and I've come to know the DVD very well. The halos are unbelievably bad. I can't believe someone let it out in this condition. It looks like they used the DVD as the master for this. It is definitely NOT high-def even though its 1920x1080. It's even worse then the original Blu-Ray version of the Fifth Element. They HAVE to reissue it.
post #68 of 122
OK, I just finished watching the entire Theatrical Cut. And while I mostly agree with Ralph's written PQ....I feel his # is way off the mark. If Gladiator is average....I must watch some really below average movies ALL THE TIME. No, Gladiator is not top of the line of all time, but it's certainly WELL above average. Most of the movie is stunning...with just the occasional EE getting in the way, and just a few scenes that are a bit too soft.

edit: oh, watching on a 52inch Samsung (so maybe it looks worse on a larger screen)
post #69 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormshadow4life View Post


edit: oh, watching on a 52inch Samsung (so maybe it looks worse on a larger screen)

Two things...how close do you sit? From 9.5 feet back of an 88" screen...it looks pretty bad for Blu-ray. It does look better than an upconverted DVD, but there are times when the differences are VERY minor by comparison--a rarity for Blu-ray for sure.
post #70 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Two things...how close do you sit? From 9.5 feet back of an 88" screen...it looks pretty bad for Blu-ray. It does look better than an upconverted DVD, but there are times when the differences are VERY minor by comparison--a rarity for Blu-ray for sure.

about 5 and a half feet....maybe six. like I said the movie's a mix....sometimes great.. sometimes okay (but ALWAYS above DVD). I have certainly seen much worse though.
I really wish I had a huge screen sometimes to see what every other videophile (spelling) sees....oh well.
post #71 of 122
Awesome job Ralph on your countless BD reviews. Your (and the others posters across the forums) opinions and detailed notes direct my purchases for keepers vs rentals. You are the man. I just love Gladiator...I guess I'd just have to live with the jaggies and the pasty pictures. Will be my next purchase.

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
post #72 of 122
the scenes that dropped out most notably for me were the CGI Rome views. A few looked okay, but on the whole, the cgi always seemed to drop significantly in quality. However, the gladiatorial fight scenes were amazing. The cgi Colosseum exterior views look good, but don't pay attention to the black birds... the cgi bird flocks look very bad, almost like shadow overlays from movies from the 50s... DON'T LOOK AT THE BIRDS. Its still a good looking title for the most part, and I wasn't as displeased in my purchase I had thought I would be when a reviewer had stated "You might as well slather your screen with vaseline", this wasn't the experience I had at all. If you liked the movie before, you will like it more now, that's the bottom line.

(viewed on 58" pn58b550 @ approx 8 feet.)
post #73 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyisChamp View Post

ralph potts, do you know if this blu ray disk includes the original teaser trailer with the basil poledouris conan theme music? that alone for me would be worth the purchase. probably the best teaser trailer i have ever seen.

this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYKQYAl90pc

hey thats a good teaser. can anyone confirm if this specific teaser trailer with the conan theme music is on the blu ray disk please?
post #74 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

hey thats a good teaser. can anyone confirm if this specific teaser trailer with the conan theme music is on the blu ray disk please?

Greetings,

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this inquiry. I can confirm that the teaser trailer is the one with basil poledouris' Conan theme music. Enjoy!


Regards,
post #75 of 122
Hey!

No, this is not an argument about the picture quality rating. Ralph always does a fine job in grading video because you should be getting the best picture from Blu-Ray which has the most bandwidth of any home media. I love "Gladiator" more everytime I see it. The movie looked fine at night with my Radiance XD and JVC projector. The reason that it dosn''t look as good as "Braveheart" (another classic) is because it was shot on Super 35 , with only the middle of the frame used, rather than the full frame, anamorphic, Panavision process Mel Gibson and cinemaphotographer John Toll used. You get more depth of field, but also more grain, with Super 35 as opposed to Panavision. Also Ridley Scott uses a moody, impressionistic visual style more than most directors.

Yes, that is the "Zulu" chant before the first battle. The same chant was used by the Zulus responding to the British defenders singing "Men Of Harlich" in what is probably the best adventure film ever made. No problem. A great moment from one classic used in another classic. Quentin Tarantino does it all the time! "Zulu" came out in 1964, the same year as "Fall Of The Roman Empire," of which "Gladiator" is a REMAKE! "Gladiator's" Marcus Aurelius, Richard Harris when young, walked out on the part of Commodus and was replaced by Christopher Plummer who made his first big screen splash in the role.

I thought the extended scenes in "Gladiator" make it a better movie. The added stuff does wonders for the charachters and performances of Connie Nielsen, Thomas Arana and particularly Jaoquin Phoenix's incredible playing of Commodus. "Gladiator" brings back thoughts of the legendary Baby Boomer epics. Russell Crowe and Jaoquin Phoenix give the kind of wonderful performances as mortal enemies that Charlton Heston and Stephen Boyd gave in "Ben-Hur," another ancient revenge story with a great climax in the arena. Crowe's terrific Maximus shows the same integrity, leadership, common touch and killer fighting skills as Kirk Douglas' immortal "Spartacus."

Strength And Honor! Capnvid
post #76 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

Hey!

The reason that it dosn''t look as good as "Braveheart" (another classic) is because it was shot on Super 35 ,

I'd rather not get into an argument but the reason it doesn't look as good as Braveheart is because the studio are using an outdated old master and they applied a ton of processing to the image which is not needed for high definition content.

Nothing to do with the Super 35 format.
post #77 of 122
Point taken. No argument. I hope directors who use Super 35 interpositives for Blu-Ray encoding have better luck than Ridley Scott and "Gladiator" fans did. I hope Paramount makes up a new master that lives up to the film.

Best, Capnvid
post #78 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

Hey!


I thought the extended scenes in "Gladiator" make it a better movie. The added stuff does wonders for the charachters and performances of Connie Nielsen, Thomas Arana and particularly Jaoquin Phoenix's incredible playing of Commodus. "Gladiator" brings back thoughts of the legendary Baby Boomer epics. Russell Crowe and Jaoquin Phoenix give the kind of wonderful performances as mortal enemies that Charlton Heston and Stephen Boyd gave in "Ben-Hur," another ancient revenge story with a great climax in the arena. Crowe's terrific Maximus shows the same integrity, leadership, common touch and killer fighting skills as Kirk Douglas' immortal "Spartacus."

Strength And Honor! Capnvid

Other than the execution by `archers' "order them "scene I don't remember any other scenes that were added...anyone notice what else was added??
post #79 of 122
This is just one of those movies i just have to have. Even though i'm somewhat dissappointed with the video score the story more than makes up for it.

Collect.
post #80 of 122
Hey Willie;

Added scenes include Jaoquin Phoenix's chopping up of his father's statue after he sees Maximus alive and weeping afterwards. Richard Harris' earlier observation of Phoenix staring at the stature before being told he won't be the new Caesar. Both add to Jaoquin's performance. The execution scene you did notice refected what Phoenix said earlier was the kind of courage he felt he had. It also helped audience understanding of Thomas Arana's Quintus later turning against Commodus. Arana also has a nice added scene with a tied up Crowe before the final arena scene. Connie Nielsen has a powerful added scene with Derek Jacobi where she tells the Senator that her brother Phoenix is destroying Rome by financing the Gladatorial games by selling future grain supplies. She also says Jaoquin should die for it, making her later scenes with Phoenix more meaningful.

Oliver Reed has a great added moment at the Morocco arena where he tells Crowe to "be more entertaing" in his fights rather than just killing opponents. Crowe follows by single handedly killing several gladiators and then screaming at the crowd "Are you not entertained!?" in the scene already in the film. Ralf Moeller, the big German gladiator, has a nice added moment before the first arena scene where he tells his fellow warriors what they must do to win their freedom. Russell Crowe is wonderful in the added scenes with other actors, but the only additional scene of him without other key players is when General Maximus visits his badly wounded soldiers in the makeshift hospital after the opening battle.

You may have to see "Gladiator" as many times as I have to notice the additional scenes and their impact. Life may be too short to watch it that much.

Morituri Te Salutant! Capnvid
post #81 of 122
Hey folks,

I used to use the DTS-ES track on Gladiator as one of my reference audio pieces. I would listen to the opening scene and the battle scene over and over and over again. I heard it dozens upon dozens of times.

I watched the movie in its entirity yesterday, and I believe that there is something wrong with the low bass portion of the L and R channels. The problem is not subtle, especially when compared with the excellent DTS-ES track on the DVD.

Here's the problem: when low frequency bass -- under about 100hz is played through the L / R channels there is a significant amount of static present in both channels. I heard this very clearly in the opening title (with the title followed by explanatory text). This is what I did:
1) Set all speakers to large, and routed bass to the speakers. Then I turned off all my speakers so the only thing playing was the subwoofers with the LFE track. You can verify that the LFE track is not playing at this time.
2) Set all the speakers back to small, 80hz cross over, but keep them off. You can verify that a low bass is being routed to the subwoofers during this portion.
3) Turn the subs off, speakers back on, and you will hear a "fluttery" static during this potion.

I heard this at other times during the movie as well, not just the title credits.

Also, while I did not take any measurements, I believe that the channel low frequency is of a relative lower level that the DTS ES track. When the volume is set so that the LFE audio (such as the 'boom' from the catapult explosions is set the same), the low bass from the channels appears to be a significantly lower level. I don't have the time to thoroughly test this and I could be wrong on this. In speculation, I wonder if some sort of high pass filter was used on the L and R channels; this reduced the level of low frequency audio they have AND introduced the artifact described above.

In conclusion, I believe that the audio on this disc is, to use the technical term, seriously broked.

Best,
Sage
post #82 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

Oliver Reed has a great added moment at the Morocco arena where he tells Crowe to "be more entertaing" in his fights rather than just killing opponents. Crowe follows by single handedly killing several gladiators and then screaming at the crowd "Are you not entertained!?"

Just watched the theatrical yesterday. Both scenes are in the theatrical addition.
post #83 of 122
For Sage,

Nope. The second Morocco Arena scene has Crowe walking out of his cage to face several glaidators single handedly to his comrade's shouts of "Maximus! Maximus!" and no Oliver Reed in the theatrical version. In the extended cut, Oliver Reed talks to Maximus through the bars of the cage before he walks out to fight. Reed does talk about "entertainment" in other parts of the theatrical version and my prior thread may be confusing due my speedy summing up of the additional scenes. Watching Gladiator as many times as I have may have me confused as well.

I hope you enjoyed the Blu-Ray in spite of the bass problems. The thing that bothers me about Blu-Ray soundtracks are that very few of them have actual 94 khz encoded "lossless" audio in spite of the Dolby HD and DTS MA labels. Blu-Ray has led us to demand perfection in our favorite movies.

Roma Victor! Capnvid
post #84 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnvid View Post

For Sage,

Nope. The second Morocco Arena scene has Crowe walking out of his cage to face several glaidators single handedly to his comrade's shouts of "Maximus! Maximus!" and no Oliver Reed in the theatrical version. In the extended cut, Oliver Reed talks to Maximus through the bars of the cage before he walks out to fight. Reed does talk about "entertainment" in other parts of the theatrical version and my prior thread may be confusing due my speedy summing up of the additional scenes. Watching Gladiator as many times as I have may have me confused as well.

I hope you enjoyed the Blu-Ray in spite of the bass problems. The thing that bothers me about Blu-Ray soundtracks are that very few of them have actual 94 khz encoded "lossless" audio in spite of the Dolby HD and DTS MA labels. Blu-Ray has led us to demand perfection in our favorite movies.

Roma Victor! Capnvid

Oh -- you're right, I was thinking about the scene in Proximo's room (he starts by asking Maximum what he wants 'Girl? Boy?').

Unfortunately, I found that the audio and video issues with Gladiator to be quite severe. I think that, in total, the DVD is a superior exp erience. The video isn't quite as good, but the audio is better. Even my friends, not audio or videofiles, noticed how superior Braveheart's presentation was (we did a double feature). It's unfortunate as I believe Gladiator is a superior movie.

I don't demand perfection with movies, but I do expect accurate video and a minimum of digital artifacts. I'm not sure I could hear the difference between 48 and 96khz.

Best,

Sage
post #85 of 122
Until they start recording the films at 96k, rather than 48K, there is no need to have 96K on the Blu-Ray's. It would only be a conversion from a 48K original.
post #86 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage View Post


Unfortunately, I found that the audio and video issues with Gladiator to be quite severe. I think that, in total, the DVD is a superior exp erience. The video isn't quite as good, but the audio is better. Even my friends, not audio or videofiles, noticed how superior Braveheart's presentation was (we did a double feature). It's unfortunate as I believe Gladiator is a superior movie.



Best,

Sage

See the super bit version for both better sound and clearly better image quality than the standard dvd, and you will appreciate better the disappointment i have in the blu-ray, and probably enjoy the movie more....
"Are you not entertained....."
post #87 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVisone View Post

See the super bit version for both better sound and clearly better image quality than the standard dvd, and you will appreciate better the disappointment i have in the blu-ray, and probably enjoy the movie more....
"Are you not entertained....."

There's a superbit version of Gladiator? I was not aware of that.

Ralph, I know you've probably moved onto other discs by now, but if you have a chance to confirm that audio artifacts that I described above, you might want to consider adjusting the audio score for this disc (if you do that).
post #88 of 122
Just think will be here when the next 4 boxset startrek films come out. i hope there better then the last 6.
As you can see PARAMOUNT hasn't said a word about GLADIATOR. But as you know by now GLADIATOR sold very well.
And thats all PARAMOUNT really cares about.
post #89 of 122
There isn't a Superbit version of Gladiator...it isn't a Sony disc.
post #90 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

There isn't a Superbit version of Gladiator...it isn't a Sony disc.

There was a Superbit DVD edition sold in the UK when Sony had the rights to the movie for that part of the world. I believe those rights have long since passed.

The Superbit edition sells for big money these days on Ebay and other trading sites.
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