AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Warning for Denon owners: your xx09/x89 AVR may have a major bug
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Warning for Denon owners: your xx09/x89 AVR may have a major bug - Page 7

post #181 of 545
10/16/09 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR View Post

After having no sub detected, turn MultEQ Off again, and on the Test DVD, to go 5.1 DD Tests > Calibration > Levels Check > LFE. You should hear the "rumble noise" through your speakers with MultEQ Off. Then enable MultEQ again (Audyssey setting) and see if you still hear the test noise. With the bug, it should be silent with MultEQ enabled because the LFE channel is MIA instead of getting mixed into your speakers!

As far as I know, this should be a foolproof way to check (though it takes a little work/hassle...), so please report your findings.

Here are the results for my 789
MAIN Ver 00.87
Sub Ver 00.29
DSPi Ver 45.41
APLD A2990009
VPLD A2940002

I ran calibration with no sub detected this time and saved the settings -- I put in the test tone and ran it without MultiEQ enabled first -- I head rumble in my front mains.

I turned on MultiEQ (just by pressing the MultiEQ button on the remote) and verified it said MultiEQ:Audyssey on the AVR display --- NO rumble coming from my speakers.

Something else I noticed -- I get a slight hiss from ALL my speakers (your ear has to be right next to speaker) when MultiEQ is enabled --- there is NO HISS when this feature is turned off. Now, I knew about this hiss but I though I was having a slight ground loop issue or something ----

Very odd --- it looks like my firmware version is newer than some, but still not current --- looks like I may try to get this resolved
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #182 of 545
10/22/09 at 2:25pm
So I finally get a call back from the home office for repair on this issue. And get this, I can ONLY send to Denon NJ. Huh? I asked about Ca. She says nope. Only NJ. Then I ask about turn around time. Well since its not really a repair it won't take as long as those (running 4 to 6 weeks). She says shoudl only take 2-3 weeks if all goes smooth. For the love of...

Well I'm going to sit on this issue for a while and when there is going to be some down time I might look at getting this fixed or just getting a new AVR. Who knows.
Reply
Reply
post #183 of 545
10/22/09 at 4:32pm
I'm glad I stumbled onto this and the problem that these units seem to be plagued with. I was just about to pull the trigger on the 1909 (last night actually) but I decided I'd research them just a bit further and see if I could find a better price... I'm glad I did. Now i'm not even sure I want a Denon period since it seems most of the sub $700 models are plagued with the problem. I know the problem is supposed to mostly exist with ones only bought off the shelf late last year and early this year, but Someone said theirs purchased in late April was infected and I dont really want to flip a coin. Who really wants to purchase a receiver like this, and the first thing you have to do is drive it to UPS to be sent off for a month? BS.
Reply
Reply
post #184 of 545
10/22/09 at 4:35pm
Quote:


it seems most of the sub $700 models are plagued with the problem.

note that this only affects some of LAST YEAR'S models below 2809/989. The newer models like 1910 and 2310 (anything that ends in a "0") are not affected.

I agree with you though that I wouldn't want to take a chance on a 1909/789 right now. A 2309 would be pretty safe though as you can update the firmware at home, no need to send it in.
Reply
Reply
post #185 of 545
10/22/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

I'm glad I stumbled onto this and the problem that these units seem to be plagued with. I was just about to pull the trigger on the 1909 (last night actually) but I decided I'd research them just a bit further and see if I could find a better price... I'm glad I did. Now i'm not even sure I want a Denon period since it seems most of the sub $700 models are plagued with the problem. I know the problem is supposed to mostly exist with ones only bought off the shelf late last year and early this year, but Someone said theirs purchased in late April was infected and I dont really want to flip a coin. Who really wants to purchase a receiver like this, and the first thing you have to do is drive it to UPS to be sent off for a month? BS.

This problem, as far as I am concerned anyway, has really been overblown. It all depends on how you use the Denon. I have a 789 and it sounds great to me and my family. None of this bass is low or bass is high. Mine seems to be just fine. I run everything but my CDP via HDMI. HD DVD sounds great whether its TrueHD or HD Master, DD+ or HD Hi-Res, DD or DTS. I don't have an issue that I can tell. Sounds great via OTA HD STB, HD DVD, and DVD.

But obviously you should follow your instincts. But let me tell yu that I am happy and have no regrets having bought my 789 (which is a 1909 for arguments sake).
Reply
Reply
post #186 of 545
10/22/09 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

note that this only affects some of LAST YEAR'S models below 2809/989. The newer models like 1910 and 2310 (anything that ends in a "0") are not affected.

I agree with you though that I wouldn't want to take a chance on a 1909/789 right now. A 2309 would be pretty safe though as you can update the firmware at home, no need to send it in.

I was originally purposely shooting for the last years model 1909 to get a discount on it being a year old... but after briefly looking at the price of the 1910, it seems I can get it for nearly the same price. I may take this option. I'll look into what the differences are between the 1909 and 1910... hopefully the 1910 is a step up (aside from the 'bug'). Thanks for suggesting it, I would have thought it would have been significantly pricier.
Reply
Reply
post #187 of 545
10/22/09 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The newer models like 1910 and 2310 (anything that ends in a "0") are not affected.

BTW, has this been confirmed?
Reply
Reply
post #188 of 545
10/22/09 at 7:30pm
Thread Starter 
Yes. After getting a second AVR (refurb) with the problem, I tried a new AVR-590, the "lowest" of this year's models, just to see for myself that one actually worked correctly. Anyway, all I've said about it is how superb its sound was compared to the buggy 1909s! So no worries...

BTW, off topic: One reason I personally don't like the xx10/x90 models (I had thought of switching to a 2310 for cool GUI), is in my situation with a Dish HD DVR, the HDMI passthrough in Standby doesn't work the same as the 1909s. (It didn't on my 590, and I saw someone with a Dish DVR say the same with their 2310...) When swapping tuners/buffers on the DVR, the 1909 causes another HDMI handshake (doesn't happen direct to TV)... same thing on the 590, except audio was lost after the handshake until the AVR was cycled on/off again. Sure, there are workarounds, which I'd do if I had to, I'm just used to the Standby passthrough working without problems. Wonder how next year's models will behave...

Also, another (OCD?) thing I don't like about the 1910 is they no longer have as much of an information display on the front panel -- 1 line I think instead of 2, no input signal/speaker indicator icons (what I dislike about the Onkyos ), etc. The 2310's display adds what the 1909 had, however.
Reply
Reply
post #189 of 545
10/23/09 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR View Post


Also, another (OCD?) thing I don't like about the 1910 is they no longer have as much of an information display on the front panel -- 1 line I think instead of 2, no input signal/speaker indicator icons (what I dislike about the Onkyos ), etc. The 2310's display adds what the 1909 had, however.

I agree I like the 09s front panel display better than the 1910s. The really bummer of the 10 for me though is, it doesn't have a video generator on-board. I use it for audio only. It has to have a video source running through unit so it can piggyback the GUI on it. if you feed it no video, no GUI. a real pain for setup and adjustments. Another way to trim weights and costs? But at least I was able to prove what 09 sound should be like, and see that dynamic volume and other audyssey stuff does indeed work, if it's feed a properly decoded signal. Now patiently waiting for my 09 to come home all well (hopefully).
Reply
Reply
post #190 of 545
10/23/09 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

BTW, has this been confirmed?

You will have to wait till the 1910/790 are all sold out before anyone tells about the factory defects. The 1909/789 defect ( for some ) was here from the start but it was just made public recently. I really can't hear anything wrong with my unit, But then I really don't know what I'm hearing anyway, just as-long as its loud and clear. Which makes me the prefect denon customer.
The good thing they will fix it maybe if they can or care to, or they just swap units with the other confused guy who just sent there denon in for servicing.
I be the first to tell you I'm cheap and thats why I got this denon 1909/789 AVR unit, cause its was the cheapest unit I could find with upscaling to 1080p and HD audio. At this point if your unit sounds good leave it on your shelf and enjoy it. If you got a problem you can't live with then take action. If your that picky than cheap entry level AVRs from China are not for you.
Reply
Reply
post #191 of 545
10/23/09 at 11:38am
So I have the 789 (not checked the firmware yet). Last year I was complaining about excessive bass and noticed that the DVD version (using bitstreamed DD5.1 from my Oppo 981HD) was very boomy. The Blu-ray version using LPCM Multi Channel sounded fine. I have noticed many bitstreamed DVD's sound bass heavy where the LPCM from the PS3 does not. When I get home the firmware is getting checked!!

I think I may have a way around this anyway. On my Oppo 981 there is an option to change the HDMI audio from Bitstream to LPCM Multichannel and let the Oppo do the decoding. Wouldn't this fix the problem and if so, are there any downsides?

Thanks!
Reply
Reply
post #192 of 545
10/23/09 at 12:18pm
your description definitely sounds like the precise symptoms.

Quote:


On my Oppo 981 there is an option to change the HDMI audio from Bitstream to LPCM Multichannel and let the Oppo do the decoding. Wouldn't this fix the problem and if so, are there any downsides?

yes that will work fine, the problem is only with standard DD/DTS bitstream decoding, so if you let your source decode and output everything as multich PCM it will be correct. No downside that I can think of!
Reply
Reply
post #193 of 545
10/23/09 at 12:29pm
Cheers.

It will be interesting to see what firmware I have installed. At least if its the 'bad' one I will know that my ears have not been playing tricks on me for the last 12 months!
Reply
Reply
post #194 of 545
10/23/09 at 12:48pm
Another symptom is, large volume swings that are not controlled by dynamic volume or DRC. Two other symptoms are, loss of detail and brightness, and poor center channel performance, loss of clarity. In my case any way. These issues were not present with 1910 in My home.
Reply
Reply
post #195 of 545
10/23/09 at 1:47pm
Checked my firmware: its one of the bad ones. Not surprised. I had turned down my sub by about 10db and cranked my centre channel to +3db from what MultEQ had set.

As I have started watching mor Blu-ray discs, I had noticed that this problem did not appear on LPCM through the PS3.

Just tried LPCM on the Oppo (Oppo decodes the DD5.1) and all is well!! Movies that I was never happy with suddenly sound much better!! Bass is toned down and sounds 'crisper'.

I thought the improved bass performance I heard from the PS3 was down to the HD audio on the BR disc. It's like having a new AVR again when playing DVD's!!!!

Thanks to this thread I'm much happier. Not sure its worth sending this away for a new firmware given my workaround?
Reply
Reply
post #196 of 545
10/23/09 at 2:27pm
Ok guys, right now I'm looking at the 1910 or the older 2309 (about $100 more). I'd really like to get the 2309CI over the 1910, BUT, Is it easy to perform the firmware yourself? Do I need any special cables or anything? I've never had to do this. I think that if the FW update will definitely fix the problem, and I can get the FW update and install it myself on the 2309CI myself, then it'd probably be worth it. Is this a good idea, or should I just get the newer 1910 and save 100 bucks?
Reply
Reply
post #197 of 545
10/23/09 at 2:53pm
I'd get the 2309CI and update the firmware yourself.

I wish I could with my 789!!
Reply
Reply
post #198 of 545
10/23/09 at 3:31pm
the firmware update is easy on the 2309CI, you just plug into the RS-232 serial port. If your computer doesn't have a serial port, you can get a USB-to-serial adapter.
Reply
Reply
post #199 of 545
10/23/09 at 4:53pm
lilmike - The firmware update is a simple executable file which takes you through the update process with various screens. Just to give you an idea of how easy it is .... I've had roughly 100 folks (although only 9 for the 2309) request the various updates I send out and none of them has come back asking for additional help.
Reply
Reply
post #200 of 545
10/23/09 at 5:57pm
Well I appreciate the input everyone... I have pulled the trigger on the 2310CI. The guy matched the sale/clearance price they had on the 2309CI (turns out they were out of them and didnt realize it) and I couldnt pass it up.
Reply
Reply
post #201 of 545
10/23/09 at 6:36pm
I tried skimming though here, but I am wondering if this problem affects the 989. I haven't tried to listen for it yet as I haven't had a chance.
Reply
Reply
post #202 of 545
10/23/09 at 7:57pm
So I investigated 2 options....

1. I called J&R to see if they would be willing to make a return customer happy. I told them that I bought the 1909 at the preorder price of 499 last year. Given the hassle that Denon NJ has caused me. Would it be possible to get the 1910 for the same price. He checked and yes....$499, 0 tax, free shipping. Not too bad.

2. I called the Authorized Service center here in Ca, albeit Carson, Ca. Explained the situation and yes, they do have a firmware update that deals with some aspect of DD signals. The woman on the phone didn't know too much more than that. But here is the kicker...there return time on the AVR should only be 2 weeks.

So...I will likely be shipping this thing off Monday to Southern Cal. F' the guys in NJ. Volcanoron, did you double box yours for the trip or just pack in original box and slap a label on it.
Reply
Reply
post #203 of 545
10/23/09 at 11:08pm
I took to mail center since I got rid of original box after about 6 months. They put it in a plastic bag then wrapped it thoroughly in bubble wrap and boxed it surrounded by peanuts. Sent it in last Thursday. They got it on Monday. It came back this eve. from UPS too late to put it in but will get on it tomorrow.
Reply
Reply
post #204 of 545
10/24/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcanoron View Post

I took to mail center since I got rid of original box after about 6 months. They put it in a plastic bag then wrapped it thoroughly in bubble wrap and boxed it surrounded by peanuts. Sent it in last Thursday. They got it on Monday. It came back this eve. from UPS too late to put it in but will get on it tomorrow.

Fantastic. I'm planning on FedExing mine Monday...only 17$ for in California approx 2 day arrival. Not too shabby. Now just before I send it, can you check that the firmware was updated to the proper firmware revisions. Thanks.
Reply
Reply
post #205 of 545
10/24/09 at 11:06am
I checked unit last night before bed. It has new firmware,and serial number says it's mine. I fired it up this morning. I listened to a lot of things I've played last few days and grinned. Volume levels have never been more even. Center channel is now correct and dialog is much more clear. Local channel volume swings are no longer outrageous. Bass is clear and defined. I ran calibration, then went back over some stuff out of DVR I listened to to this AM. Audyssey can and does work now. Thanks Larry and Chris for all Your help resolving this issue. Larry for tenacity. Chris for going beyond to check the issue and contact Denon. I am pleased also Denon fixed it. For any of You following along, Don't panic. Check the firmware, if it's version .87, SEND IT IN. If it's version 90 Your probably fine.

Ron
Reply
Reply
post #206 of 545
10/24/09 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogdoctor View Post

Would seem that I have (1909) the affected FW:

Main Ver. 00.59
Sub Ver. 00.23
DSP1 Ver. 45.37

As you can see I'm not even near version .87. I will be sending mine in on Monday. Thanks for your efforts too.
Reply
Reply
post #207 of 545
10/26/09 at 5:44am
Hi
I have just noticed this thread and wondered if it affects all 1909's with earlier firmware because i rang denon uk and they have no update and haven't heard of the bug,so i will be doing the test later to find out for myself.
I did post the thread on a uk forum but had no replys and it got me wondering whether it affected the uk 1909's.
Firmware:
MAIN Ver 00.87
Sub Ver 00.29
DSPi Ver 45.41
Reply
Reply
post #208 of 545
10/26/09 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtGoody View Post

Hi
I have just noticed this thread and wondered if it affects all 1909's with earlier firmware because i rang denon uk and they have no update and haven't heard of the bug,so i will be doing the test later to find out for myself.
I did post the thread on a uk forum but had no replys and it got we wondering whether it affected the uk 1909's.
Firmware:
MAIN Ver 00.87
Sub Ver 00.29
DSPi Ver 45.41

Does your unit sound like there is something wrong with it ?
Reply
Reply
post #209 of 545
10/26/09 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by googlegod View Post

Does your unit sound like there is something wrong with it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtGoody View Post

Hi
I have just noticed this thread and wondered if it affects all 1909's with earlier firmware because i rang denon uk and they have no update and haven't heard of the bug,so i will be doing the test later to find out for myself.
I did post the thread on a uk forum but had no replys and it got we wondering whether it affected the uk 1909's.
Firmware:
MAIN Ver 00.87
Sub Ver 00.29
DSPi Ver 45.41


I have this same firmware version and can confirm it affected my unit. I recently switched my Oppo DVD player to multi channel LPCM instead of bitstremaed DD and noticed a huge improvement.

Example: My kids love 'Cars'. With the DVD set to output DD5.1 bitstream, the subwoofer blows us away at the opening scene with the raceway.

With the same scene letting the Oppo do the decoding and sending LPCM, it sounds well balanced and no longer overpowers us with bass.

The difference truly was night and day.

At this point, I use my PS3 to watch BR's using LPCM and now I am doing the same thing with my Oppo 981 DVD player.

That only leaves my HD TV channels in bitstreamed DD5.1 which I can't do much about.

I am debating sending the unit to Denon or not. I may just move it upstairs and buy a 2310CI for the main room. (WAF not good on this option though!)
Reply
Reply
post #210 of 545
10/26/09 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjharrall View Post

I have this same firmware version and can confirm it affected my unit. I recently switched my Oppo DVD player to multi channel LPCM instead of bitstremaed DD and noticed a huge improvement.

Example: My kids love 'Cars'. With the DVD set to output DD5.1 bitstream, the subwoofer blows us away at the opening scene with the raceway.

With the same scene letting the Oppo do the decoding and sending LPCM, it sounds well balanced and no longer overpowers us with bass.

The difference truly was night and day.

At this point, I use my PS3 to watch BR's using LPCM and now I am doing the same thing with my Oppo 981 DVD player.

That only leaves my HD TV channels in bitstreamed DD5.1 which I can't do much about.

I am debating sending the unit to Denon or not. I may just move it upstairs and buy a 2310CI for the main room. (WAF not good on this option though!)

You would buy another denon? There business and QC is questionable. If denon was a first class act, they would of contacted me, knowing all the spec's of my registered unit and make it easy for me to have the unit serviced, if needed. Whats the point of registering if it means nothing ! They may not see it as a problem or just don't care. Just maybe there is no "bug" . This thread hasn't gotten much feedback, in comparison of the *Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread. I'm just don't know, but one thing I do know is that my next piece of hardware won't be denon. Too confused

There is nothing of this software bug on the denon website
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Warning for Denon owners: your xx09/x89 AVR may have a major bug