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Sim2 Mico 50 LED PJ

post #1 of 46
9/8/09 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
I've been sitting on this for a time, and have now been given the green light.


Mico is a new " Grand Cinema" line from Sim2, incorporating LED light source. The Mico 50, single chipper, is the first machine in the line. Due December.

No price yet, but based on the spec I expect it to be expensive for a single chip unit


but here are some bullet points.

1.0.95" 1080p DLP® darkchip 4 chipset

2.LED light source, typical life estimated at around 30.000 hours.

3.Contrast ratio up to 100.000:1

4.New color filters,color gamut >128% NTSC, >180% Rec. 709

5.instant on/ off.

6.Throw ratio ....1.5-2.1:1 (T1 standard); 2.1-4.0:1 (T2 optional)

7.Motorized Lens shift V +60% / - 25%, H +/-8%

8.Special video adjustments- NR,Luma and Chroma transition filters

9.Other special adjustments Dynamic Black technology, Memories, Zoom/Crop, Color temperature control and Gamma Functions

10.INPUTS/OUTPUTS

Analog 1 x Composite Video (RCA)
1 x S-Video (mini Din 4 pin)
1 x Component Input (3x RCA)
1 x RGBHV/YCrCb (1x D-Sub 15 pin)
Digital 2 x HDMI – HDCP compliant
Miscellaneous 1 x Wired remote (3.5mm Mini Jack)
2 x OUT 12V (via DC Jack)
Control 1 x USB (B type connector)
1 x RS232 (Mini Din 9 pin)

11. Lighting system-Luminus Phlatlight PT120 R/G/B LEDs. http://www.luminus.com/content1092.
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post #2 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:04pm
3000 lumen yes but the light source have this at d 80 and not the pr.

i am sure the pr.have less than 1000 lumen at d 65 coming out of the
optic
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post #3 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:05pm
Is there any chance this will be $12 000 or less? Doubtful, huh? Can you give a ballpark range.....within $5 000. Just your educated non official non NDA breaking guess.
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post #4 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:08pm
Luminus Phlatlight PT120, is the same led-system Vivitek is using.
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post #5 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

3000 lumen yes but the light source have this at d 80 and not the pr.

i am sure the pr.have less than 1000 lumen at d 65 coming out of the
optic

Good catch, I missed that.
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post #6 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Is there any chance this will be $12 000 or less? Doubtful, huh? Can you give a ballpark range.....within $5 000. Just your educated non official non NDA breaking guess.

I'd say the chances are between Slim and none, and Slim just rode out of town.
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post #7 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:10pm
Ballpark figures for
1 ANSI cr
2 Static cr
3 Projector D65 ANSI lumen
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post #8 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I'd say the chances are between Slim and none, and Slim just rode out of town.

I wonder of they have plans for a D80e LED version. That would be in the ballpark $ wise.
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post #9 of 46
9/8/09 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Ballpark figures for
1 ANSI cr
2 Static cr
3 Projector D65 ANSI lumen

No idea. Much will depend on how much has been OEM'd and if it shares anything wiith the Vivitech.

1.The ANSI cr could be anything up to 1100.
2. No idea, but dynamic will be under 100k in best modes
3. It will really depend on the implementation and the kight path
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post #10 of 46
9/8/09 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

No idea. Much will depend on how much has been OEM'd and if it shares anything wiith the Vivitech.

1.The ANSI cr could be over 1000.
2. No idea, but dynamic will be under 100k in best modes
3. It will really depend on the implementation and the kight path

let me guess and see later who is right:

1. ansi cr. less than 500:1
2. dynamic cr. in the less than 30000:1
3. already post below 1000 lumen now i will say below 800 lumen.

all at d 65 all with t1 lens at medium position of the zoom.
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post #11 of 46
9/8/09 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

let me guess and see later who is right:

1. ansi cr. less than 500:1
2. dynamic cr. in the less than 30000:1
3. already post below 1000 lumen now i will say below 800 lumen.

all at d 65 all with t1 lens at medium position of the zoom.

I'm not going to compete against you on this, you sly old dog. You probably have one with you at the moment..

1. Thats very low, I wonder why you would guess that low I'm thinking you know something
2. Agreed. Thought it would be around the Lumis area
3. Im guessing 600-700
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post #12 of 46
9/8/09 at 2:44pm
Exciting news and a step in the right direction. I can't wait to fly to Atlanta tomorrow and see this and what else is new !!
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post #13 of 46
9/8/09 at 2:50pm
I think this is a straight rebadge.
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post #14 of 46
9/8/09 at 3:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I think this is a straight rebadge.

Lawguy.....What is that comment based on?

It cant possibly be a "straight rebadge" of the Vivitek, though I would expect some commonality. The case is radically different, no control panel on the MICO, the lens position is different (normally indicative of engine differences} , and the unit uses the T1 & T2 lenses, throw ratios are different. The MICO uses motorized shift in both axes, and the actual shift limits are different. The VP software also differs, MICO has the Sim2 fully variable, dual axis scaling engine.The lamp life also differs by 50%. The input/output sections are different.

Thats a long, but by no means exhaustive, list of differences, some being very major indeed.

I did say earlier in the year, on a number of occasions, that there would be an OEM prior to the "in-house" units. Thats very different to a rebadge


JASON.......Was this the other machine you referred to having seen?
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post #15 of 46
9/8/09 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Exciting news and a step in the right direction. I can't wait to fly to Atlanta tomorrow and see this and what else is new !!


dont miss the e&s 8k laser pr. demo.

8k in 2d a 4k in 3d
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post #16 of 46
9/8/09 at 5:22pm
I can't be sure but I think that Sim2's product will be a rebadge of this.

Just a guess.
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post #17 of 46
9/8/09 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I can't be sure but I think that Sim2's product will be a rebadge of this.

Just a guess.

LG, I think there is some confusion with the current use of the terms OEM, Rebadge and Value added reseller. I know it confuses the hell out of me.

That unit, whilst an OEM, is not a straight rebadge. The case is very different, and looks like another Giorgio Revoldini design The MICO uses the T1 and T2 lens. It also uses the software. etc.
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post #18 of 46
9/9/09 at 2:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Is there any chance this will be $12 000 or less? Doubtful, huh? Can you give a ballpark range.....within $5 000. Just your educated non official non NDA breaking guess.



Given the price of the similar league Projection Design model, I highly doubt this will come out at anything under 20-23K. Great Italian design and finish though and hopefully the picture will not be too shabby either!
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post #19 of 46
9/10/09 at 12:41am
I would guess that Sim2 wants to get a foot in the LED PJ market sooner rather than later for branding, but will devevlop more in house solutions next gen and beyond. Basically what CM said. A lot of the first gen LED FP will share much in common and contain relatively less in house tweaks and mods that are performance enhancing than in later generations.
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post #20 of 46
9/10/09 at 3:18am
I am reporting rumor so there is a good chance that it it wrong. I believe CM would have better intel.
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post #21 of 46
9/10/09 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I am reporting rumor so there is a good chance that it it wrong. I believe CM would have better intel.

Great, so your about as good as TMZ or Perez Hilton.
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post #22 of 46
9/10/09 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Great, so your about as good as TMZ or Perez Hilton.

Yes. That is the nature of rumor. I have some confidence in my sources, but, as they say, time will tell.
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post #23 of 46
9/10/09 at 7:43am
What degree of confidence do you have in your source? A statement of some means anything above 0 and by itself offers essentially no probative value.
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post #24 of 46
9/10/09 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What degree of confidence do you have in your source? A statement of some means anything above 0 and by itself offers essentially no probative value.

Actually, to be technical, I am offering hearsay evidence and it falls within no exception to the hearsay rule that I am aware of. Therefore, it should be excluded from evidence because it is not evidence of anything.

I am sure that CM has better info anyway.
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post #25 of 46
9/10/09 at 8:05am
Thread Starter 
Irrespective of sources, one look at both units confirms it cannot be a straight rebadge of the Chilin, as we understand that term.

The information on the Sim2 site regarding the lenses also confirms this. Anyone familiar with Sim2 VP will also recognize the options for Aspect Ratio, particularly the 3 custom user ARs per input.

http://www.sim2.com/home/en/node/4834

It would seem that this unit, at least, uses lenses, input/processing board and software, and case from Sim2s own stable.

I would imagine Chilin would offer a "chassis and engine" option for developers to add their own stuff to. Delta do this for a number of machines. They also do it for 100% "in-house" designs, where the companies lack the manufacturing capacity. This is particularly true of light engines.

Im not even sure if Chilin will offer this as a full retail product, so it may only be available as a "chassis and engine" type of option anyway.
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post #26 of 46
9/10/09 at 8:37am
"color gamut >128% NTSC, >180% Rec. 709"

What is the point of having 180% color gamut of rec. 709 ?

Since BluRay is auhored using rec 709 primaries, having far more color gamut than the source: this makes no sense for me....

Anyway it's good to see another led pojector with 1 chip design.

I'am a big fan of 1 chip DLP projection, and I think Led light sources will make 1 chip DLP designs killer for home cinema!!!!
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post #27 of 46
9/10/09 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by balagee View Post

Since BluRay is auhored using rec 709 primaries, having far more color gamut than the source: this makes no sense for me....

You will appreciate it once you see it. You will never return to dead on 709 once you've tasted the nectar even if it means throwing the term "accurate" out the window.
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post #28 of 46
9/10/09 at 12:41pm
Quote:
You will never return to dead on 709 once you've tasted the nectar even if it means throwing the term "accurate" out the window.

Ummm...actually many of us have already "tasted the nectar" of oversaturated colors by use of an expanded gamut...I won't speak for anyone else, but for me personally I can't stand the oversaturated look...Accuracy reigns supreme! Instead of "tasting the nectar" my advice is "Don't drink the Kool-Aid!"
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post #29 of 46
9/10/09 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Ummm...actually many of us have already "tasted the nectar" of oversaturated colors by use of an expanded gamut...I won't speak for anyone else, but for me personally I can't stand the oversaturated look...Accuracy reigns supreme! Instead of "tasting the nectar" my advice is "Don't drink the Kool-Aid!"

Hi Bob

I have spent time with LED and the sat colors are not the same sat colors you see with the JVC or other projectors. The JVC looks wrong. LED colors at least on the machine I have spent time with look spectacular. Consumer 8 bit is missing a lot of colors when compared to film but LED puts them back in yet skin tones remain natural and far more accurate then Plain Jane 709. There is enough gamut with LED that with skin tone you see color gradients missing with all other technology and Brown skin is far more accurately rendered. Its a big plus and most will welcome the additional color gamut.
Color meters will not work with LED and Cameras taking screen caps do not do well with the color space yet your peripheral vision pick up the colors LED delivers, they look natural and Im glad to see a technology offer some advancement outside the limited "paint by number" color box
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post #30 of 46
9/10/09 at 1:07pm
Ok, Alan, I will take your word for it. I would just like to know how they maintain accuracy with an expanded gamut, that's all. It goes against everything I know about calibration. But if there is some new technology which allows nicer looking colors that remain accurate, then I am all for it!
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