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Lutrons RadioRA2 - Page 22

post #631 of 965
What's the best way to control ceiling fans with lights? I have 2 ceiling fans in a great room whose lights I use regularly. Would like at least the lights on rr2. Currently the light and fan control are in a single gang unit (split top and bottom).
post #632 of 965
I have that exact same "split" single-gang control for a ceiling fan with lights. I believe it's also a Lutron unit as well, but not a Ra 2 control. I've seen that Lutron has released a Ra 2 single gang fan dimmer (the part number has an "F" in it), but I don't think there's a combined unit yet. If anyone has seen a Ra2 split unit I'd be interested to know the part number.
post #633 of 965
Would be nice to have a single gang option for combined lights and fan, but the obvious answer is to add another gang box to the existing.
post #634 of 965
Doesn't appear to be a reverse option for the RRD-2ANF fan speed control.
post #635 of 965
In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.

I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?

I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:





Thanks.

Mark
Edited by giomania - 1/25/13 at 11:32am
post #636 of 965
And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?

Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file

Thanks.

Mark
post #637 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?

Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file

Thanks.

Mark

You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.
post #638 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.

Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.

I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?

Thanks.

Mark
post #639 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.

I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?

Thanks.

Mark

You could probably add some weatherstripping to the door and seal the mounting points with silicone or you can build your own similar device in a waterproof outdoor box from Home Depot. You could also hook the relay to an RRD-8S in an outdoor housing (plastic, of course) instead of an appliance module. As far as wireless signal reliability, probably a try and see situation. You definitely don't want to put the RA2 device in a metal box.
post #640 of 965
IIRC, an Aux Repeater can be hardwired, if you can run a new outdoor category cable to the pool equipment location, and have trouble with that distance. I'm unsure of cold tolerance of the RA2 devices, but adding a plastic NEMA 4X enclosure to the pool equipment location may be an option for you.
post #641 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post


I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?

I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.


As far as using it for pool equipment & landscape lighting. I agree what with most of what has been commented on already. Unless you have an extreme climate or otherwise harsh conditions; I have had several customer's simply use switches (RRD-8ANS-..) with proper (& preferably) plastic weather resistant covers outside. Range should be good at 30', however you're just at the stated limit. I would personally hold off on the Aux. repeater, I think their stated range is very conservative, you have to have some pretty serious obstructions at 30' to have a range problem. The biggest one is always the metal box, if you can't replace it with plastic at least get a plastic cover on it.
post #642 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.

I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?

I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:





Thanks.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.

Thanks Paul.

Just to clarify, can the RRD-6NA be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED as noted in their documentation?

Mark
post #643 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?

Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file

Thanks.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.

I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?

Thanks.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

You could probably add some weatherstripping to the door and seal the mounting points with silicone or you can build your own similar device in a waterproof outdoor box from Home Depot. You could also hook the relay to an RRD-8S in an outdoor housing (plastic, of course) instead of an appliance module. As far as wireless signal reliability, probably a try and see situation. You definitely don't want to put the RA2 device in a metal box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

As far as using it for pool equipment & landscape lighting. I agree what with most of what has been commented on already. Unless you have an extreme climate or otherwise harsh conditions; I have had several customer's simply use switches (RRD-8ANS-..) with proper (& preferably) plastic weather resistant covers outside. Range should be good at 30', however you're just at the stated limit. I would personally hold off on the Aux. repeater, I think their stated range is very conservative, you have to have some pretty serious obstructions at 30' to have a range problem. The biggest one is always the metal box, if you can't replace it with plastic at least get a plastic cover on it.

I appreciate all the input. I live in Chicago, and I don't think that is considered an extreme climate. Anyway, plastic weather-resistant enclosures would be in order for both my possible applications (landscape lights and pool equipment). The Tork timer is actually mounted in a plastic box, so maybe I can remove the internals and use it. I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.

I guess I need to investigate it further.

Mark
post #644 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.

It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.
post #645 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post





I appreciate all the input. I live in Chicago, and I don't think that is considered an extreme climate. Anyway, plastic weather-resistant enclosures would be in order for both my possible applications (landscape lights and pool equipment). The Tork timer is actually mounted in a plastic box, so maybe I can remove the internals and use it. I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.

I guess I need to investigate it further.

Mark

Since I have access to the conduit run (via the unfinished furnace room in basement) going to the landscape light transformer mounted outside the house, I performed a little invesigation last night, to determine if I had options. It turns out I can get to the wiring, as it passes through a junction box in the furnace room; please note this is metal conduit, as that is what they use in Chicago.

Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?

Thanks.

Mark
post #646 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.
Mark

You would replace your Tork timer with a RR2 switch (acting as a relay or additional relay if larger than 8 amps), the actual timer is built into the main repeater and accessed through programming and/or the app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?

Mark

Yes, seems like an ideal way to go. (FYI the DV (dual voltage) switch if more expensive and only needed for 277vac (commercial/industrial) or if you don't know if it's 120 or 277, use the RRD-8ANS instead)
post #647 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.

The F6AN is probably cheaper online because people inadvertently ordered them, not knowing they were for 3-wire dimming ballast and/or control interfaces. The load on the F6AN would be max 6amp, depending on the ballast type, the number of dimming ballasts it could handle may vary.
post #648 of 965
Anyone that is interested, we have our first shipment of Fan Speed Controls available, pn RRD-2ANF-WH in stock and ready to ship. We only have a handful left, so email me if you're interested.

FYI, they went to a different LED indicator count, so replacement color kits will be unique as well, in other words it won't accept a dimmer color change kit, as the 2ANF has less LED's.

Lastly, as of yesterday there still was no available update for the software to program these, should be out soon, if not already!!!
post #649 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

Anyone that is interested, we have our first shipment of Fan Speed Controls available, pn RRD-2ANF-WH in stock and ready to ship. We only have a handful left, so email me if you're interested.

FYI, they went to a different LED indicator count, so replacement color kits will be unique as well, in other words it won't accept a dimmer color change kit, as the 2ANF has less LED's.

Lastly, as of yesterday there still was no available update for the software to program these, should be out soon, if not already!!!

Paul,

Is there a combination fan/light control for RR2, like they have for Maestro?

Thanks.

Mark
post #650 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

You would replace your Tork timer with a RR2 switch (acting as a relay or additional relay if larger than 8 amps), the actual timer is built into the main repeater and accessed through programming and/or the app.

Thanks for the input, Paul.

I checked on the amperage, and the pump is 14.1 amps, and the heater doesn't specify, except to say to connect it to a 15-amp breaker, which it is. Anyway, each load (pump and heater) is greater than 8 amps, so what do you mean by using the RR2 switch as an additional relay?

Here are some pictures of the setup and the inside of the Tork switch. Given this is a mechanical transfer switch with each load greater than 8 amps, I am not seeing how this would work without an electronic transfer switch.




post #651 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Anyway, each load (pump and heater) is greater than 8 amps, so what do you mean by using the RR2 switch as an additional relay?

The pump is probably 240V so you have to use a 120V coil DPST relay like I stated earlier.

The heater is probably gas, but has an electric exhaust fan motor which could be 120V or 240V and presumably shares power with the pump coming from the timer so that it does not run when the pump is not on.

Simplest solution: remove the timer guts, put this relay (http://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB-Insulation-Terminal-Mounting/dp/B005T73ZOW) and the RA2 switch in the tork box since it looks plastic anyway and already has all the wiring necessary including the neutral. RA2 switch controls the relay coil. Relay contacts switch pump. Secure them to some improvised mounting plate.
post #652 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

The pump is probably 240V so you have to use a 120V coil DPST relay like I stated earlier.

The heater is probably gas, but has an electric exhaust fan motor which could be 120V or 240V and presumably shares power with the pump coming from the timer so that it does not run when the pump is not on.

Simplest solution: remove the timer guts, put this relay (http://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB-Insulation-Terminal-Mounting/dp/B005T73ZOW) and the RA2 switch in the tork box since it looks plastic anyway and already has all the wiring necessary including the neutral. RA2 switch controls the relay coil. Relay contacts switch pump. Secure them to some improvised mounting plate.

The pump is indeed 240V, and the heater is gas with an electric exhaust fan motor.

I was worried about the solution you mentioned before when I was talking about an appliance module, as that had a metal box and was ~$60. Now that I have provide more details, the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB AC100/120 General Purpose Relay makes sense as the simplest solution. The benefits are that I get to re-use the plastic Tork box, and it is easily reversible if the RR2 switch (RRD-8ANS) does not work due to distance from the main repeater.

Thank you very much!

Mark
post #653 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Since I have access to the conduit run (via the unfinished furnace room in basement) going to the landscape light transformer mounted outside the house, I performed a little invesigation last night, to determine if I had options. It turns out I can get to the wiring, as it passes through a junction box in the furnace room; please note this is metal conduit, as that is what they use in Chicago.

Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?

Thanks.

Mark

I have confirmed that my landscape light transformer is in fact 900W, so the RRD-8S-DV switch should work, as 120V x 8A = 960VA. Is my math correct? Also, I was wondering if any users are using an RR2 system in a house with metal switch boxes. I live in Chicago, and there are metal boxes and conduit throughout my house. I am just wondering if the metal switch box with a plastic cover plate would affect the radio signal range at all.

Thanks.

Mark
post #654 of 965
^^^^

not sure that dimmer is rated for a transformer load?

Transformers have a big inrush when turned on

as far as boxes: I have never seen an issue with plastic or metal
post #655 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.

I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?

I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:





Thanks.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post


Thanks Paul.

Just to clarify, can the RRD-6NA be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED as noted in their documentation?

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.

I apologize in advance for re-posting my questions, but I just want to make sure what I am seeing in the Lutron documentation is correct, as it is critical for my system BOM.

In addition to the clip posted above, I noticed this in the installation instructions for RR2 dimmers and switches:




This post from November, 2011 is the source of my confusion and request for clarification on this issue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post

new lutron software allows the firmware upgrade of mlv/elv dimmers to adaptive dimmers. Makes a big difference for difficult LED loads.

Is it simply the case that the 6NA, 10D, and 10ND dimmers all now support Incandescent, ELV, and MLV loads, and Lutron needs to update their documentation?

Thanks.

Mark
post #656 of 965
I created this wiring diagram to replace my existing Tork switch with the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ relay and RR2 8ANS switch.

First image below: The exising Tork switch wiring diagram.

Second image below: The wiring diagram has the actual photo of my Tork switch wiring (the bottom picture) and incorporate the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ relay (middle diagram) along with the RR2 8ANS switch (top diagram). Please note the connections for Brass and Silver in the existing RR2 8ANS switch diagram (top diagram) are redundant. Does this make sense?

Thanks.

Mark





Deleted the image, as it showed incorrect wiring methodology.
Edited by giomania - 2/13/13 at 10:11am
post #657 of 965
The relay coil is the load and it needs to be connected between the output of the switch and neutral. You don't need wire nuts just use the screw terminals on the relay they can take 2 wires each.
post #658 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by az1324 View Post

The relay coil is the load and it needs to be connected between the output of the switch and neutral. You don't need wire nuts just use the screw terminals on the relay they can take 2 wires each.

Thanks for the input. I have modified my drawing, and assumed that switch output was on "0" and Neutral was on "1". Is it correct now?

Please note the lines crossing inside red ovals do not actually connect. I did not know how to put in the little half-circles to indicate when lines cross but do not actually connect.

Mark


post #659 of 965
Looks ok.
post #660 of 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post

The 6NA dimmer is great for LED cans, but most of the LED strips we sell use dimmable MLV based drivers so a less expensive dimmer (regular 6D) could work there as long as you are well within it's minimum wattage. If you are close to 60watts or under on your strip definitely use the 6NA. And I mean 60 watts of load[LED] not a 60 watt transformer.

Paul,

I was thinking to incorporate LED strip lighting for under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I was looking at your web site, and I was just wondering how to incorporate RR2 with these two products:

Product Name: 12vdc RGB LED Ribbon (tape)
Product ID: LED-RGB

Product Name: 12vdc RGB Basic Control
Product ID: LED-RGB-WC

Since it states on the product page for the controller not to use a dimmable power supply, I was thinking that an appliance control module to turn it on and off is the only option.

Is that correct?

Thanks.

Mark
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