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Cedia 2009: Theta digital news!!!@@@ - Page 6

post #151 of 501
9/17/09 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I wonder if Shumi still feels the same?

The price of his CBIII just went up. Shall I keep on bashing Theta to remain consistent by saying I will believe it when I see it?
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post #152 of 501
9/17/09 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I do not even know why you and I are having this discussion. We have more in common than not. I agree with your assessment that the Proceed PAV was better than the CBII Superior dacs. I see your equipment choices and I agree they are very good choices. You mentioned "name dropping." Man my salary is so low compared to many of you here that names like Steve Bruzonsky are big shots too me. This is frustrating for me because I can not take the "hit" with a worthless processor, if Theta does not deliver.

You're right. Peace.

For the record, I do hope that Theta delivers, because I'd take no pleasure in seeing fellow enthusiasts take a hit like that.

By the way, Bruzonsky in Yiddish means "big bucks." He will bail out all those who kept the faith, regardless of what happens.

Thanks,

Nick
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post #153 of 501
9/17/09 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo View Post

By the way, Bruzonsky in Yiddish means "big bucks." He will bail out all those who kept the faith, regardless of what happens.

Thanks,

Nick

No way. Bruzonsky in Yiddush means "big bruiser"!!!@@@
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post #154 of 501
9/17/09 at 11:55pm
PQ isn't very good. I took this with my Blackberry.

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post #155 of 501
9/18/09 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

PQ isn't very good. I took this with my Blackberry.

Thanks. Looks like Theta did actually demo a working prototype. Guess we can end all of the speculation about whether it will actually happen. Great news.
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post #156 of 501
9/18/09 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
Shumi, where are you???
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post #157 of 501
9/18/09 at 9:00am
Had to leave town...no access to Wifi.
Yes, my unit is configured for 8.2 channels and has one extreme card. As far as loyalty to Theta, I go back to 1999 when I purchased a Casanova and a Theta David II from Goodwin's High end in Boston. The Casanova was replaced at least three times for several issues. The David is no longer working as the laser is shut. The CBIII I purchased from L&M also went back twice. It was resposnible for frying several tweeters on my precious Dunlavys. BTW, I have had no issues with the Integra 9.8. I also own two dreadII amps which had to go back once for humming (loose transformers). So, I am done with these guys. Anyone else willing to pay higher than $1200 for the CBIII?
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post #158 of 501
9/19/09 at 3:11am
Ebay. I had trouble selling my old CBIII with two Superior cards on a-gon. It sold for 3150.00 on ebay. With the upgrade having progressed more, mention that in your auction. You should be able to get a nice price. You may want to wait until the upgrade is actually shipping. The price will certainly go up a lot then.
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post #159 of 501
9/19/09 at 7:26am
Thread Starter 
Shumi, if we all griped about AV equipment we bought in 2005 and what we can sell it for now on Audiogon in these dour economic times, we could fill the internet with double the useless trash it has today. You bought your CB3 in 2005, before HDMI stuff started coming out for AV receivers or processors. It wasn't even a consideration for you. It was hi times financial for most of us. Now the high times are over and most of us are suffering. Get real! Assuming the HDMI 1.3 upgrade becomes a reality, Theta owners who want to sell will have a much better value re their CB3s than many other folks with similar products. (Though my Theta Compli value ain't much but hey, that's a risk I took when I bought it. Same when I sold my Theta Voyager back in 2005.)
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post #160 of 501
9/19/09 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shumi_9 View Post

Had to leave town...no access to Wifi.
Yes, my unit is configured for 8.2 channels and has one extreme card. As far as loyalty to Theta, I go back to 1999 when I purchased a Casanova and a Theta David II from Goodwin's High end in Boston. The Casanova was replaced at least three times for several issues. The David is no longer working as the laser is shut. The CBIII I purchased from L&M also went back twice. It was resposnible for frying several tweeters on my precious Dunlavys. BTW, I have had no issues with the Integra 9.8. I also own two dreadII amps which had to go back once for humming (loose transformers). So, I am done with these guys. Anyone else willing to pay higher than $1200 for the CBIII?

I was joking with my post about $1200.00. It is worth more than that. It is a shame we all have to wait even longer. But a working proto-type is encouraging. All equipment will not last forever. Did you lose the tweeters due to pops? I myself have not experienced one problem with my original Dreadnaught or CBIII. I did have a problem with my Casa Nova with the vomit green display drifting which was corrected by adjusting the pot for the VFD. Also I vaguely remember a problem with the Nova using COAX and a Toshiba DVD player. It's been too long to remember what was the problem between the two. There was a workaround with which one powered up first or something like that. I would consider changing, but to who? While the Lex is fine, I want the option between PCM and Bitstream. There is Arcam's AV888 but I'm not certain it would be considered an upgrade. There's ML, but again it's PCM via HDMI, they need to lose the video section and drop the price by 50% in my opinion.
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post #161 of 501
9/19/09 at 8:45pm
Two I would consider would be the Classe, discussed extensively elsewhere, and one of the ADAs. They make great stuff that rarely gets discussed here because it's marketed to the custom install crowd almost exclusively. Would be particularly interesting if they come through with the promised Trinnov module.

Dave Nauber oversees the Classe processors, a function he performed w/the Proceed AVP/2 -- great pieces in many ways.
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post #162 of 501
9/20/09 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post

Two I would consider would be the Classe, discussed extensively elsewhere, and one of the ADAs. They make great stuff that rarely gets discussed here because it's marketed to the custom install crowd almost exclusively. Would be particularly interesting if they come through with the promised Trinnov module.

Dave Nauber oversees the Classe processors, a function he performed w/the Proceed AVP/2 -- great pieces in many ways.

My Proceed AVP was the best value of any of the processors that I have owned. Here's an internal picture, http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/w...800MainGut.jpg
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post #163 of 501
9/20/09 at 8:53am
I was initially attracted to the Classe as well, because of the former Proceed group. The one glaring omission in the Classe is lack of room correction processing. Am I wrong that it is not offered?

By the way, I would be interested in whether ATI/Theta have discussed anything like room correction as well. I believe an Audyssey standalone unit can be purchased, but, last I looked, it was $2500 MSRP, and ostensibly required an Audyssey-Certified installer to do it (though Kal Rubinson of Stereophile, who posts on AVS, wrote that he was proof you didn't really need the installer).

I have to say--the biggest positive change I ever heard in a processor, was when my former Lexicon MC-12 went from having no room equalization, to having it. It's a fairly radical improvement, and you sometimes need to disabuse yourself of certain listening preferences--preferences you actually derived from learning to like what the room was doing to the sound. However, once you listen to even-familiar music with room eq, you hear things never heard before.

If the Classe has Room EQ, it should be a serious contender. If it can only be attained by purchasing an Audyssey unit standalone, well, that's at least $2500 that should be tacked on to the price of the unit.

Thanks,

Nick
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post #164 of 501
9/20/09 at 9:23am
Thread Starter 
ATI/Theta has dicussed nothing re room correction.
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post #165 of 501
9/20/09 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo View Post

I was initially attracted to the Classe as well, because of the former Proceed group. The one glaring omission in the Classe is lack of room correction processing. Am I wrong that it is not offered?

By the way, I would be interested in whether ATI/Theta have discussed anything like room correction as well.

I have to say--the biggest positive change I ever heard in a processor, was when my former Lexicon MC-12 went from having no room equalization, to having it. It's a fairly radical improvement, and you sometimes need to disabuse yourself of certain listening preferences--preferences you actually derived from learning to like what the room was doing to the sound. However, once you listen to even-familiar music with room eq, you hear things never heard before.

If the Classe has Room EQ, it should be a serious contender.
Thanks,

Nick

The Classe does have room EQ."Five-band parametric equalization is provided for each of the ten channels to help tune the system to its environment. Classé has elected to offer the system EQ as a manual feature. While several automated systems are available on the market, the complexity of room acoustics guarantees that no automatic system can achieve consistent, optimum results. Our experience is that the best results are obtained by combining measurements with human judgment. The filters used in the EQ are rendered accurately by our processor, which uses floating point arithmetic operating in 64-bit double-precision." Theta and Classe are using the same company for the new formats, Momemtum Data systems. http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/w...800-Board3.jpg The board in the Classe is likely the same one that Theta is using but comes in a couple of different version. "The DAE-7A/EQ: C6713 based module for general EQ applications,"apparently is the one Classe is using. http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-7 . Theta has made no mention of room correction. The limiting factor seemed to be the power suppy. They have changed the power supply and have the right company's board for it. " I do not know what they will do down the road but I believe the hardware of the CBIII HDMI will be able to support room correction if Theta can get into the 21 Century and offer it. It does depend on which version of the board they are using. You can be sure that soon after the upgrade is shipping, we will either ask Theta or an owner will take one apart so that we can see.
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post #166 of 501
9/20/09 at 11:23am
Nick,
I'm not sure Kal is a good example that no one would need an Audyssey installer. He knows a bit to much. I'm sure there's quite a few on this thread that could get by just fine also. Just as I'm also sure that there are folks around who would try and correct a null point in the room acoustics by using the room correction system to simply boost the gain in that range.

No idea if Classe has added the option or not. I rather imagine their website would answer that. It's been a while since I've listened to any of their gear. Thought it sounded quite good but overly polite and a bit sterile for my taste.

I do agree with others here regarding Proceed. Great sounding gear. Very likely would have bought the AVP and PAV before that If I hadn't heard/bought the CB. Sorry to see them go.
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post #167 of 501
9/20/09 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

Nick,
I'm not sure Kal is a good example that no one would need an Audyssey installer. He knows a bit to much. I'm sure there's quite a few on this thread that could get by just fine also. Just as I'm also sure that there are folks around who would try and correct a null point in the room acoustics by using the room correction system to simply boost the gain in that range.

Using the separate Audyssey Sound Equalizer is no more difficult than using AudysseyPro on any AVR or prepro. That said, the skills required for this involve use of a PC but, otherwise, are not significantly difficult that using MultEQ XT. The issue is cost and availability to the end-user.

BTW, the ability to edit the target curves does allow a user to do stupid things but you have make a special effort for that.
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post #168 of 501
9/20/09 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

My Proceed AVP was the best value of any of the processors that I have owned. Here's an internal picture, http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/w...800MainGut.jpg

Loved the AVP from both an SQ and ergonomic standpoint. That little remote did 95% of anything you'd ever need. OSD too. Traded 'up' to a Lexicon MC12B which was a mistake.

If I stick w/the CBIII, I'll probably look at one of those SVS units Kal reviewed that correct below 200Hz or so. Have used Audyssey on my Onkyo 9.8, and used MRC which operates below 200hz in my old Meridian G68 -- I prefer the Meridian-type approach in my room which is acoustically treated.

In bad rooms though full range correction can work really well -- a Tact Mini in front of my ATC active 20s worked wonders in my untreated, acoustic nightmare of a living room.
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post #169 of 501
9/20/09 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post

If I stick w/the CBIII, I'll probably look at one of those SVS units Kal reviewed that correct below 200Hz or so. Have used Audyssey on my Onkyo 9.8, and used MRC which operates below 200hz in my old Meridian G68 -- I prefer the Meridian-type approach in my room which is acoustically treated.

The catch is that the SVS will only EQ the sub and, unless you are crossing over very high, you will not get any correction on the main speakers from the crossover point (80Hz or less) up to the critical (Schroeder) frequency. This is something that MRC takes care of quite well.
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post #170 of 501
9/20/09 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

...BTW, the ability to edit the target curves does allow a user to do stupid things but you have make a special effort for that.

Which is why I expect they won't sell it even if one will pay the price.
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post #171 of 501
9/20/09 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

Which is why I expect they won't sell it even if one will pay the price.

I do not think so because they had the same restrictions before this option became available. I think the commercial considerations of having a "custom installer" product are substantial.
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post #172 of 501
9/20/09 at 12:56pm
For what it's worth, room correction ought to be right up there with HDMI as a must have in a processor, particularly a high-end processor. In my view, room correction improves sound quality far more than any other upgrade, or anything that HDMI might be able to deliver.

Thanks,

Nick
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post #173 of 501
9/20/09 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The catch is that the SVS will only EQ the sub and, unless you are crossing over very high, you will not get any correction on the main speakers from the crossover point (80Hz or less) up to the critical (Schroeder) frequency. This is something that MRC takes care of quite well.

Yep, missed that.
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post #174 of 501
9/20/09 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not think so because they had the same restrictions before this option became available. I think the commercial considerations of having a "custom installer" product are substantial.

Could be. Either way it's a non-starter for me as a consequence.
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post #175 of 501
9/20/09 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo View Post

For what it's worth, room correction ought to be right up there with HDMI as a must have in a processor, particularly a high-end processor. In my view, room correction improves sound quality far more than any other upgrade, or anything that HDMI might be able to deliver.

Thanks,

Nick

The impact of room correction suddenly hit me while shopping for new homes. My wife and I sought a compromise. We would not have build a new house and buy an existing home. This would mean that I would have to use the great room as my theater with no acoustical treatments. Knowing the hugh difference the treatments, especially the 25 RPG skylines and ten Waveguide Acoustics diffuser, make, it was a bad decision. My wife decided she could not tolerate the five amps that I have plus all of my other stuff in the great room. In, the end we are building a new home with an upstairs bonus room that is a 30 by 18 with 8 to 9 foot ceiling. I think the ability to do room treatments trounces HDMI, and room EQ. For most guys, however, this may not be possible. In such a case, some sort of bass eq is needed. It would be nice if the processor had room eq. I would suggest sub eq combined with some of the absorption panels that now have artwork on them or even your own personal pictures. "Run game," on the wife. Send a picture of your kids or even her mother or better still of her to be imprinted on the absorption panels and then stick that up. However we have to face it. It's almost a miracle that a processor this old is getting any upgrades at all.
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post #176 of 501
9/21/09 at 9:49am
I have been reading with great interest the many and varied comments on this forum. I would like to start by saying that the rumors of Theta Digital's demise are greatly exaggerated! (My apologies to Mark Twain). ATI did not purchase the assets of Theta in order to lose money or cease the development of new products we are capitalists after-all.

There are truths and there are outright lies. The following should clear them up:

1. When ATI purchased the assets of Theta Digital, we kept all employees in critical positions. Our chief engineer, Dave Reich never left us and is currently hard at work on new projects.

2. Regarding the HDMI project, we had two choices: engineer a totally new pre / pro or design an upgrade for the venerable Casablanca platform. The decision was obvious but much more difficult to implement. We could not abandon the legion of Casablanca owners who for years were enjoying the best controller available. We chose instead to design an upgrade for a unit that had very complex software and hardware. We actually demonstrated the Casablanca III with HDMI at the recent CEDIA Expo. This is a prototype unit that has not yet gone to beta testing. No matter how much pressure is put on us, we will not release it until we are as sure as possible that our customers will be well served and get what they expect. I was asked repeatedly about a release date. You should all know that the question is somewhat impossible to answer given the vicissitudes of software. To generally pick a number, we are approximately 95% there. Once again, remember that we are in business to produce exceptional products and make a profit therefore it is obviously in our best interests to get this to market ASAP.

3. At CEDIA, we introduced our new Compli Blu transport. It is based on the popular OPPO player but of course has been Theta-ized by Dave R. and his staff. Details will be posted on the Theta Digital website soon. Here's a scoop for you that nobody has yet been told: the Compli Blu will have an MSRP of $2,995.00 USD! We have begun production so you are welcome to order one from your favorite dealer


4. We are also in production of the Dreadnaught III. Please refer to our website for information. This new unit not only runs cooler than the DN2, but has enhanced performance specs as well as more power. Your dealer will gladly take your order!

5. It's older news, but let me remind you that since ATI's purchase of Theta Digital, we have also introduced the Generation VIII Series 2. Dealers, reviewers and end users alike have praised the sonic enhancement and have kept the G8S2 in the fore of the DAC market.

To those current Casablanca III owners, don't throw the baby out with the bath water; you are still enjoying the best there is!

Mike Pontelle
ATI/Theta Digital
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post #177 of 501
9/21/09 at 9:59am
Well, that post from Theta should give all you CBIII owners comfort. You were assured that . . . well, you were finally told that . . . (let me go back and read it) . . . ahem . . .

Ah, yes . . . you now know that you're going to be able to buy Theta's version of Oppo's $500 player for a mere 6x its retail cost.

As for HDMI? That response read a lot like the "it is what it is" mantra that received rave reviews before.

Thanks,

Nick
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post #178 of 501
9/21/09 at 10:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Pontelle View Post

I have been reading with great interest the many and varied comments on this forum. I would like to start by saying that the rumors of Theta Digital's demise are greatly exaggerated! (My apologies to Mark Twain). ATI did not purchase the assets of Theta in order to lose money or cease the development of new products we are capitalists after-all.

There are truths and there are outright lies. The following should clear them up:

1. When ATI purchased the assets of Theta Digital, we kept all employees in critical positions. Our chief engineer, Dave Reich never left us and is currently hard at work on new projects.

2. Regarding the HDMI project, we had two choices: engineer a totally new pre / pro or design an upgrade for the venerable Casablanca platform. The decision was obvious but much more difficult to implement. We could not abandon the legion of Casablanca owners who for years were enjoying the best controller available. We chose instead to design an upgrade for a unit that had very complex software and hardware. We actually demonstrated the Casablanca III with HDMI at the recent CEDIA Expo. This is a prototype unit that has not yet gone to beta testing. No matter how much pressure is put on us, we will not release it until we are as sure as possible that our customers will be well served and get what they expect. I was asked repeatedly about a release date. You should all know that the question is somewhat impossible to answer given the vicissitudes of software. To generally pick a number, we are approximately 95% there. Once again, remember that we are in business to produce exceptional products and make a profit therefore it is obviously in our best interests to get this to market ASAP.

3. At CEDIA, we introduced our new Compli Blu transport. It is based on the popular OPPO player but of course has been Theta-ized by Dave R. and his staff. Details will be posted on the Theta Digital website soon. Here's a scoop for you that nobody has yet been told: the Compli Blu will have an MSRP of $2,995.00 USD! We have begun production so you are welcome to order one from your favorite dealer


4. We are also in production of the Dreadnaught III. Please refer to our website for information. This new unit not only runs cooler than the DN2, but has enhanced performance specs as well as more power. Your dealer will gladly take your order!

5. It's older news, but let me remind you that since ATI's purchase of Theta Digital, we have also introduced the Generation VIII Series 2. Dealers, reviewers and end users alike have praised the sonic enhancement and have kept the G8S2 in the fore of the DAC market.

To those current Casablanca III owners, don't throw the baby out with the bath water; you are still enjoying the best there is!

Mike Pontelle
ATI/Theta Digital

Mike, as always, thanks so much.

This is really great news!!!@@@@

Also since ATI's purchase of Theta Digital, you have come out with the Citadel 1.5, an upgrade to the original, as well:

http://www.thetadigital.com/citadel_...ier_info.shtml


I must say an MSRP of $2,995 for the Compli Blu suggests that someone is listening to us!
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post #179 of 501
9/21/09 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I must say an MSRP of $2,995 for the Compli Blu suggests that someone is listening to us!

I will be very curious to see what one gets for an additional $2500 that is actually audible and/or can be easily seen on a large screen.
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post #180 of 501
9/21/09 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Pontelle View Post

There are truths and there are outright lies. The following should clear them up:

I would be interested in what you are referring to by "outright lies." What were they and who told them?

Thanks,

Nick
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Cedia 2009: Theta digital news!!!@@@