Cedia 2009: Theta digital news!!!@@@ - Page 2

Actually, for digital sources I find the DTC 9.8 to be a fine piece.

What I might actually do for two channel audio is purchase a good external 2-channel DAC with volume control and be done with it.

The reason Theta now has to go to HDMI 1.4 or give it up is that by the time they ship, they will be shipping with old technology. I assume I will need to upgrade to HDMI 1.4 with 2-5 years, as such I will not be sinking a lot of money into a processor upgrade, only to have to do it all over again in a couple of years.

As for the Theta BD player - it is an Oppo with improved ANALOG audio out. Who is using ANALOG audio out of their BD-player anyway? Oh, yeah, right - Theta users stuck using the Six-Shooter instead of HDMI.

Give me a break!

I paid $12000 plus for my CBIII. IT is in absolute virgin conditions as I rarely used it. Does anyone know how I can get any money for it? Should I trade it in with an authorized Theta dealerfor something else? Do we know if they will even take them for trade? This is absolutely disgusting!!!!

They are worth almost nothing at this point. Check prices on Audiogon. But before you do have a nice stiff drink. Also, note how many are listed there.

I'm not really sure what the fuss is about 1.4. Are there any upcoming AUDIO applications. If there are eventually video applications, then I would need 1.4 in a video processor and of course a 4K projector. But my hypothetical video could still in all likelihood extract the audio parts of the signal and output them in a form that would be compatible with 1.3 inputs of an audio processor preamp. All the more reason for avoiding audio gear that also do video processing. This may actually be a point in favor of the Theta approach (whether undertaken by Theta or someone else).

Steve

I can say that Classe claims the SSP 800 is the best 2 channel performer out of any of their Delta series including CDPs and any pre-amp they have made. It really is worth a listen. Its like havng the quality of a high end dedicated 2 channel CDP in all the MCHs of the SSP.

Personally its better then any CDP player I have heard. Its that good. Having said that I havent spent as much time as many auditioning CDPs.

Do you think HDMI 1.4 is needed? 4k seems like a joke when "deep color" never happened. What exactly is going to be the source for the 4k material if when can not get 2k stuff with deep color now because of the blu-ray spec. Looks like the HDMI group is full of as much shite as Theta. They promote "deep color" as a big component to make everyone want 1.3b and now that are promoting 4k. Seems like a con.

Take me seriously when I say this. I am not joking. If the statue of limitation is not up from the time you purchased it, you could sue Theta for the false claim on their website . Actually a certain attorney advised me nearly ten year ago now, that I could sue a company in small claims court for their false claims. I did not actually do it. However, I passed this information on to another owner who did sue in small claims court. The processor we owned cost 5k at the time. You can not bluff you have to actually file suit . He was able to recoup most of his money. The company sent a refund to the dealer. The problem was the dealer. He put up a fight about giving up the profit that he made from the sale and did not seem to want to settle. It's been years now and I do not know if the guy was ever successful with getting the rest of his money back from the dealer. Theta has the HDMI upgrade posted on their website. You can take them to court and win if the legal conditons, like statue of limits, are met. I remember this guy being very happy about the 3k he recovered.

Bulldogger,

I am not saying that 1.4 is essential TODAY. However, it is coming and it will be useful if one is looking to move to 4K or 3D in the future. If Theta wants to position themselves as "future-proof" coming out with HDMI 1.3x at this point is laughable.

I've had my CB since 97 also, so there

I have one of the first 50 which were made and have had it upgraded all the way to the CBIII - I'm still ticked, regardless.

Indeed length of ownership has little relevance. I bought mine in 2007 when, much like now, Theta listed HDMI on their website as something that was really happening. I was told in emails from Theta that they had 'working boards' back then and I was happy to believe Theta and their forum marketing that it was true. Shame on me, because it was all crap.

You always take a chance when you buy any piece of gear and at some point everything becomes obsolete. Salesmanship is what is it, but what Theta did then was just lies.

What has happened since ATI came along is a mystery, but the recent alleged staff changes (remember the timing of John Ballofs departure back then?) and the drip drip of vague, impossible to verify updates has got to stop. Of course there are people who really do know the true state of affairs, but the silence, while their own website's release dates pass without comment is little different than the what the old Theta did in 2007.

I don't know how many other new CBIII's have been sold since 2007 with the promise that HDMI is coming (look, here is a picture of a CBIII with HDMI outputs on the back and the HDMI logo on the display!) Of course Theta need sales to keep in business, but at the end of the day it is cause and effect. The terrible used prices is evidence of this.

I was looking back through the posts concerning Theta and HDMI over the last couple of years and it is tragically funny. My own rose tinted posts back then make me feel quite the fool!

I hope to look back on the posts I write now with similar embarrassment when my currently not working CBIII has HDMI and all is well, but that is just one of many possible outcomes!

My last 3 digits are 036, so Peter, care to say if yours has a higher or lower S/N? I just find it of some personal interest where these originals might be found. I have yet to hear from anyone with a S/n prior to 036.

All I can say about our HDMI debacle/quandary at this point in the game is ''ARGGHHH'' Spirits have hit a new low here for certain

Marc

The discussion in the Theta booth when I was there was it would enter beta testing soon. They were hoping to start shipping late this year, but who knows. The confidence level from Theta did not sound high. He implied a perfect HDMI card was difficult in practice.

Looking at their booth they did not look to be flush with cash. The interest in there products also appeared to be very low.

This was the same response at CEDIA 2008. Exactly.

An HDMI card is difficult? Everyone else has one. Sometimes I wonder who trains these reps in answering questions. A better response may've been, "it is difficult to achieve Theta's level of sophistication, reliability and quality while retrofitting an older piece... Here's a $2000K discount card for the delay."

Sorry but I do not agree with the dark ages comment. All the major consumer electronic companies already have HDMI, namely Sony, Denon, Integra, Pioneer etc, etc. The SSPs from these companies work very well and are very reliable. Note, I am not saying that they did not have any issues during the early days of HDMI.

The simple truth is; the only companies who are left behind are the so called high end companies. These companies are generally too small to pool together the large number of hardware/software engineers required to get HDMI working. When one is just manufacturing very precise analog components such as pre-amps and power-amps, you can do with a small coterie of very talented engineers. However, for DSP work on the SSPs it is a very different type of design. You need a lot of resources with a different set of talent.

Granted given sufficient time, these high end companies will catch up eventually. But it sure does not look good when a new HDMI standard is introduced every 1.5 years.

The response is a little different this year. When presented with the knowledge that Casablanca owners were outraged with the news, the response was,"It is what it is."

Bulldogger,
I have been considering sueing Theta. I bought my CBIII in 2005.

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http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/cedia09_vip/#/12

My opinion is anyone who bought the CB3 with Theta's implied warranty that it would be upgradeable to HDMI should absolutely sue, unfortunately I bought my CB2 long ago and upgraded to CB3 with no thought of HDMI upgrade path so I would not be eligible, nor would I in good conscious sue them.

But someone should take Theta to task for this

I did something similar with JVC after they advertised the G-150 DILA I purchased 7 years ago would be HDCP compliant. Even advertised it as such. Had a download of the web page from JVC indicating such. Well, it never came to be and with the help of my dealer (AVS), there wasn't a need to sue as they (JVC) refunded my entire $13,000 (as I clearly had the facts on my side). However, I was ready to go forward as my new PJ was an immediate boat anchor. It was a hassle though going through the JVC hierarchy but with persistence and my dealer's help, JVC saw the light.

Does anyone know when Theta first announced plans to integrate the HDMI card into the CBIII. Was it prior to being sold to ATI?
Thanks

Not sure the exact date, but you can start here and work your way back! Note: the link is to a thread from 2007.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=#post9537815

The thing to have is the old HDMI FAQ that Theta had on their website for ages, even after being taken over by ATI. I used to have a screen shot of it, but I deleted not long ago thinking it was no longer relevant. Theta took it down eventually. If any one has a copy it would make for interesting reading!

I emailed Theta complaining about the HDMI FAQ. I still have the email and it has one excerpt from the FAQ;

"The good news is that Theta processors the Casablanca you may have now or the Valis you will soon be able to own may be the only ones you can buy NOW that will allow you to move easily (and without that wasted expense) into the future"

If Theta can't handle the engineering needed for HDMI maybe they could at least provide an 8 shooter to simplify access to 7.1 material from Blu-ray players.

Absolutely true. Another truth is that the Six Shooter will sound better than Theta's proposed upgrade which has no room correction. Most guys,however, do not want to have to deal with all of the analog cables. HDMI has caused some companies to get out of the analog cable business. I have two Six Shooters, because I knew any upgrades would be slow. What is happening here however is past just slow.

That was before they announced a planned HDMI upgrade. Also not sure but you may have had to have made the purchase since ATI purchased the company. You would need to be able to maintain that you purchased the processor with the expectation that it would be upgraded to the new formats clearly posted on Theta's website. The price tag places it out of most small claims court. I love small claims. The last company I sued was UPS.

While I'm as disappointed with Theta's HDMI progress as the rest of the forum, I'm sitting here listening to a new Japanese import copy of Graceland and reflecting on just exactly how good the CB III with Extreme DACs is. I think that the real reason that we are as disappointed as we seem to be is that the promise of high resolution coupled with the Theta sound quality is just too tough to let go.

My guess is that as much as we want the HDMI interface, ATI/Theta wants it more. It has to be in ATI's interest to get this capability to market as soon as possible; so I remain cautiously optimistic that HDMI is just over the next hill.

While my CB I was of '98 vintage, for whatever trivia that is worth, and was upgraded to a III in '04, I believe any of us oldtimers (I even resemble the remark) when asked would have told anyone buying Theta in anticipation of an upgrade to wait till it was shipping. Broken promises have been the track record pretty much from the beginning. The sound was the only reason to play their game.

If you think you have a case and can collect on their broken promises and hot air by all means go for it. Assuming enough of you win maybe it will even instill a modicum of corporate responsibility. There was a hope that ATI would do this in their own self interest. I don't consider myself a candidate for any suite figuring I've got what I paid for.

And Bulldogger is quite right. If you can put up with all the cables and having to buy a player with decent DACs the SixShooter is an excellent multi-channel line stage.