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Cedia 2009: Theta digital news!!!@@@ - Page 14

post #391 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

+!

It seems you don't have a grasp of the difference between room correction and crossovers. As Kal and others have mentioned, if you want true room correction, you must look past the CBIII.

To his favor, he is not the only one who made those claims in this thread. He was simply furthering others' logic.

Great example that shows why misinformation should be avoided in a science forum.
post #392 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

If you are saying DACs are more critical than room in good quality sound production, you are wrong and that is irrespective of what name I go with.

You wouldn't by chance be related to DW, would you? (Father, Son, Alter Ego?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

To his favor, he is not the only one who made those claims in this thread. He was simply furthering others' logic.

Great example that shows why misinformation should be avoided in a science forum.

I guess DW's classes on "How to Post at AVS" really work well. You do a fantastic job of copying him.

More seriously, and now I am not kidding, given the low fi state of your audio gear as shown in your profile, why are you even posting in a Theta CB3 thread? Your knowledge and experience with real hi fi seems little if any.

Although I may at times disagree with them Nick Satullo, the Bland, and some others actually have used what would be considered to be higher end surround processors, etc and have some knowledge and practical experience. On the other hand, you are a home theater newbie per your moniker.
post #393 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

You wouldn't by chance be related to DW, would you? (Father, Son, Alter Ego?)

Who is DW? I honestly don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

More seriously, and now I am not kidding, given the low fi state of your audio gear as shown in your profile, why are you even posting in a Theta CB3 thread? Your knowledge and experience with real hi fi seems little if any.

Although I may at times disagree with them Nick Satullo, the Bland, and some others actually have used what would be considered to be higher end surround processors, etc and have some knowledge and practical experience. On the other hand, you are a home theater newbie per your moniker.

Did I offend you in any way by making arguments against Theta? I doubt you would make this post if I said "Theta is the greatest thing since bread and butter". I don't understand why people get so attached to their equipments. It is a thing afterall, it is not like your child, come on now.

I don't have any real life experience, but what does that have to do with opinions? Were any of my statements inaccurate? If you feel so, tell us why they are inaccurate, but "You don't have real life experience, so what you say must be incorrect" is really not a good logic, though fairly common among AVS posters. You can learn things by research too.

To clarify my posting motivation, what you see is my first system, but I have great deal of interest and currently planning for a significant speaker upgrade when I move out of the rental I live in. Thus, I check these pages to see what others have invested. Is that motivation acceptable for you?
post #394 of 501
[quote]Exactly, that is why it is best keep video out of the SSP....[/QUOTE.

And how does one do that? Do I use an HDMI splitter and run one directly to my PJ and the other to the SSP?
post #395 of 501
Is the ignore feature still available on this forum? Have not used it in a while...
post #396 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shumi_9 View Post

Is the ignore feature still available on this forum? Have not used it in a while...

Since DW and his aliases we thought had left for good?
post #397 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I don't have any real life experience, but what does that have to do with opinions?

That says it all. No real life experience. Your opinions are worthless.
post #398 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

That says it all. No real life experience. Your opinions are worthless.

I take it you disagree with me about my prioritization of DACs and room modes on quality sound reproduction.

Fair enough. You are wrong nevertheless.
post #399 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I take it you disagree with me about my prioritization of DACs and room modes on quality sound reproduction.

Fair enough. You are wrong nevertheless.

Why waste my time discussing stuff with someone who has no real life experience and therefore has no experiential basis to talk?
post #400 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Why waste my time discussing stuff with someone who has no real life experience and therefore has no experiential basis to talk?

uhh, so you would learn room modes are more critical to quality sound reproduction than the best DAC you can get your hands on.
post #401 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Exactly, that is why it is best keep video out of the SSP....

Quote:


And how does one do that? Do I use an HDMI splitter and run one directly to my PJ and the other to the SSP?

Perhaps but that is only useful if your SSP ignores the video.

There are two (perhaps more) specialized solutions.

1. Meridian's HD621 splits HDMI into an A/V output HDMI and a proprietary audio-only output.

2. Ayre's impending DX-5 player will have an A/V HDMI out and an audio-only HDMI output.
post #402 of 501
Thread Starter 
DougW, anyone who has known me over the years knows that I built my room with excellent dimensions to avoid room mode problems as nearly much as possible. And
that my dedicated theater room also has excellent sounding acoustical treatments for both movies and music. So why should I argue with you?
post #403 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

DougW, anyone who has known me over the years knows that I built my room with excellent dimensions to avoid room mode problems as nearly much as possible. And
that my dedicated theater room also has excellent sounding acoustical treatments for both movies and music.

Good for you. I admire and aim to achieve that one day. Seems we both think room modes are significant. Since my opinion on the matter was deemed worthless, guess where that put you now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

So why should I argue with you?

I don't think you should. I also don't know why you choose to.
post #404 of 501
For me, my hierarchy for the best possible sonics (in order of importance) is:

1. Professionally designed space - ideally with without constraint to dimensions
2. Acoustical analysis and treatments
3. DSP/EQ
4. DACs (pre/pro)
5. Digital source (BD player with HDMI audio output)
post #405 of 501
[quote=audioguy;17515779]
Quote:


Exactly, that is why it is best keep video out of the SSP....[/QUOTE.

And how does one do that? Do I use an HDMI splitter and run one directly to my PJ and the other to the SSP?

To be clear I meant the video processing, switching and pass through of video to projector should not be done by the SSP, primarilly to leave the video path straight to projector

Currently the Pioneer BDP-09FD has 2 HDMI outputs for which one can be sent directly to the projector the other to SSP.

Also the Lumagen Radiance XE has 2 outputs one of which can be video to projector and the other to the SSP.

I for one prefer to let my Video Processor handle all the video and my SSP handle all audio processing
post #406 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

For me, my hierarchy for the best possible sonics (in order of importance) is:

1. Professionally designed space - ideally with without constraint to dimensions
2. Acoustical analysis and treatments
3. DSP/EQ
4. DACs (pre/pro)
5. Digital source (BD player with HDMI audio output)

+1 and that is based upon 10 years experience at working on room correction.

That said, the impact of each of those is not the same. While 1, 2 and 3 are closely tied and the effect of implementing them is easily heard by any trained or un-trained listener, I would suggest that NOT to be the case of number 4 or 5. Said another way, I'd take a mid priced stereo in a well designed, treated and "corrected" room over a really high end system with a $20,000 DAC and $10,000 player in a room that had no attention given to the first three.

I've been in lots of both kinds of rooms with all kinds of equipment and it is no contest.

But that's just my opinion!
post #407 of 501
Darn, here I find that I gotta agree with Jeff again. Just wish I had the wherewithall to build a house around the Room. Instead I make do for now with careful setup and equipment choices.

Though I must say that #3 can have a profound effect on #4 and #5. If the equipment in 3 isn't up to 4 and 5 then the sound of 4 and 5 can't possibly be better than the weakest link.
post #408 of 501
Jeff,

"1. Professionally designed space - ideally with without constraint to dimensions
2. Acoustical analysis and treatments
3. DSP/EQ
4. DACs (pre/pro)
5. Digital source (BD player with HDMI audio output)"

Speakers probably need to be in that list somewhere.

Shawn
post #409 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

Good for you. I admire and aim to achieve that one day. Seems we both think room modes are significant. Since my opinion on the matter was deemed worthless, guess where that put you now.

What Steve is trying to explain is that until you've taken the time to actually experience the differences in equipment, rooms, setup, etc that to didactically make a claim that room correction makes a relatively inexpensive piece of gear sound better than a very expensive one is baseless. Room correction only addresses part of what a well designed room gets for you.

The other bit you seem to miss out on completely is that I'd be surprised to find anyone here that is serious (crazy) about the hobby (obsession) bought the equipment because of the name or the appearance. Most of us have gone through many iterations of multiple manufacturers to arrive at a current favorite. We don't like Theta because it's Theta but because it sounded better than anything else we tried. Another thing that may surprise you is that this loyalty has an end. It will only last as long as they continue to make gear that sounds better than the next company.

And even the non-Theta owners here, misguided though they may be, bought what they have because it sounded better to them. I wouldn't expect any blind brand loyalty there either.

So if you're really serious about high end you'll find a friendly brick and mortar shop out there and cultivate a relationship. They still do exist and until you've heard top notch equipment set up properly in a decent room you don't have a basis to form a valid opinion.
post #410 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

So if you're really serious about high end you'll find a friendly brick and mortar shop out there and cultivate a relationship. They still do exist and until you've heard top notch equipment set up properly in a decent room you don't have a basis to form a valid opinion.

And if you're not really serious about high end you still may hang out here and pretend to be "objective" to bother us like DWinsor or any of his alter egos.
post #411 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Jeff,

"1. Professionally designed space - ideally with without constraint to dimensions
2. Acoustical analysis and treatments
3. DSP/EQ
4. DACs (pre/pro)
5. Digital source (BD player with HDMI audio output)"

Speakers probably need to be in that list somewhere.

Shawn

My assumption here in the $20K forum is that folks buy speakers / amps that can handle output over 110 db at 20 Hz. Speaker technology is essentially unchanged in decades, you spend a lot, your speakers are likely good enough!! Heresy?!!..

I mean... if you don't believe in headroom and output, why bother?!
post #412 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

We don't like Theta because it's Theta but because it sounded better than anything else we tried.

I'd like to pretend that sound quality was the ONLY thing that drove my decision but in the case of Theta, it was not. Product feature set played a key role (and cosmetics was not ignored either). I bought their products for sound quality in addition to the fact that when I purchased the Casablanca, it was only one of two processors in the market that provided digital output (the other being Meridian) on every channel so I could use external DAC's and external digital room correction. In addition the upgrade path they offered on their DAC's (I went through four iterations before I switched) and the upgrade path I had on the Casablanca (I to II to III) was incredibly unique in the market place.

In summary, it was sound quality AND feature set AND upgrade path (and cosmetics).
post #413 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

What Steve is trying to explain is that until you've taken the time to actually experience the differences in equipment, rooms, setup, etc that to didactically make a claim that room correction makes a relatively inexpensive piece of gear sound better than a very expensive one is baseless. Room correction only addresses part of what a well designed room gets for you.

And what I am trying to say is room is a more important piece of accurate sound reproduction. Thus, it is possible a low-fi equipment with room correction will sound better than a more expensive one without it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post

The other bit you seem to miss out on completely is that I'd be surprised to find anyone here that is serious (crazy) about the hobby (obsession) bought the equipment because of the name or the appearance. Most of us have gone through many iterations of multiple manufacturers to arrive at a current favorite. We don't like Theta because it's Theta but because it sounded better than anything else we tried. Another thing that may surprise you is that this loyalty has an end. It will only last as long as they continue to make gear that sounds better than the next company.

I am sure you all did. Nevertheless, AVS crowd doesn't take criticism of their equipment well. Too much ownership pride maybe I should say.
post #414 of 501
Sorry mate but you missed it entirely.

Q: Where is it best to concentrate you're money in high end system? A: All over, no weak links are allowable. A low-fi component in a great room is still a low-fi component in a great room. It's not high end sound.

And yes there's pride in ownership. When you spend a significant chunk of your income on something there had better be. But again the part you missed was that it only lasts as long as the manufacturer holds up his end. When I'm looking at the price of another high end pre-pro to upgrade my Casablanca it had better end up being the best sounding piece going or it's gone.
post #415 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I'd like to pretend that sound quality was the ONLY thing that drove my decision but in the case of Theta, it was not. Product feature set played a key role (and cosmetics was not ignored either). I bought their products for sound quality in addition to the fact that when I purchased the Casablanca, it was only one of two processors in the market that provided digital output (the other being Meridian) on every channel so I could use external DAC's and external digital room correction. In addition the upgrade path they offered on their DAC's (I went through four iterations before I switched) and the upgrade path I had on the Casablanca (I to II to III) was incredibly unique in the market place.

In summary, it was sound quality AND feature set AND upgrade path (and cosmetics).

Ok, but I think you've made my point for me. It was a specific set of criteria, with sound being the first listed, not simply because it was Theta.

And ugly audio gear doesn't sell any better than ugly cars. Though if it was on looks alone Theta wouldn't head the list for me.

In any case I think I've said enough on the subject and found the answer I was looking for...
post #416 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

And what I am trying to say is room is a more important piece of accurate sound reproduction. Thus, it is possible a low-fi equipment with room correction will sound better than a more expensive one without it.

I wouldn't disagree with this... my build out was likely similar in cost to all of my equipment put together. So, that puts the room cost very high relative to any piece of equipment. But I agree that a lesser system would likely beat an audiophile grade one in an ideally designed room versus the average basement or family room.

There are many rooms I see here at AVS with fantastic equipment(e.g. Levinson, Martin Logan, Krell, etc) all beautifully displayed in an acoustically ignored room... I don't get it (here's an example):



speakers,martin logan,prodigy,logos,rsquest rear
subs 2x revel b15 front,rear 2 x genesis 900
amps,audio research reference 600 mkIII monoblocs L and right
krell TAS 5 channel centre,fronts for tv
krell ksa-150 class a,spare
bat vk-500 rears
pre amps,bat vk-5 Left,Right (tube)
copland cva306 6 channel blueray only(tube)
proceed AVP sub vol only blueray
cd transport,mark levinson reference cd transport No 31.5
dac jadis js2mkII [/i]

Quote:


I am sure you all did. Nevertheless, AVS crowd doesn't take criticism of their equipment well. Too much ownership pride maybe I should say.

I actually enjoy criticism of my equipment and that of others. It is just stuff.
post #417 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I actually enjoy criticism of my equipment and that of others. It is just stuff.

So long as the wife doesn't criticize the equipment, huh?
post #418 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

So long as the wife doesn't criticize the equipment, huh?

My wife doesn't understand anything about my system. Fortunately, the remote guides through anything she may need to do.

As likely with your wife, mine simply marvels at the experience in our room when watching a flick.
post #419 of 501
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

My wife doesn't understand anything about my ---------. Fortunately, the remote guides through anything she may need to do.

Delete one word in the sentence and you have a Stepford wife!@@@
post #420 of 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I wouldn't disagree with this... my build out was likely similar in cost to all of my equipment put together. So, that puts the room cost very high relative to any piece of equipment. But I agree that a lesser system would likely beat an audiophile grade one in an ideally designed room versus the average basement or family room.

There are many rooms I see here at AVS with fantastic equipment(e.g. Levinson, Martin Logan, Krell, etc) all beautifully displayed in an acoustically ignored room... I don't get it (here's an example):



speakers,martin logan,prodigy,logos,rsquest rear
subs 2x revel b15 front,rear 2 x genesis 900
amps,audio research reference 600 mkIII monoblocs L and right
krell TAS 5 channel centre,fronts for tv
krell ksa-150 class a,spare
bat vk-500 rears
pre amps,bat vk-5 Left,Right (tube)
copland cva306 6 channel blueray only(tube)
proceed AVP sub vol only blueray
cd transport,mark levinson reference cd transport No 31.5
dac jadis js2mkII [/i]



I actually enjoy criticism of my equipment and that of others. It is just stuff.

I bet a blind person would enjoy that room. Actually that is not nice of me. But it does look like someone is in the dog house. Wife told them to take all their crap and but it in the basement. And this is the end result. Wife must of liked the decorated acoustic treatments and left them upstairs. Either that or they were permanently attached to the walls.
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