Cedia 2009: Theta digital news!!!@@@ - Page 4

I get my info from the horse's mouth- I've said it before; because of my personal relationship with the powers that be, I'm told what's going on. Sure, it may take some prodding, but I get the story. Sometimes I have to keep my mouth shut, sometimes I can speak freely here. You guys have to fully realize that there are direct repercussions to everything posted here by people in the industry-- everyone reads this site, whether they'll admit it or not.

It didn't hurt that I walked-up while the guys that worked on the hardware of the card were in the booth.


-------------------------disclaimer-----------------------------------------------
I think I have a reputation around here for being a pretty straight-shooter, and to my recollection I've never misled anyone here. So take this following statement for what it's worth:

When you (consumers) hear from Carl or Mike Pontell that Theta is doing the best they can, or that they are moving forward with 100% effort towards HDMI,

YOU ARE BEING TOLD THE TRUTH!!

There is no Theta conspiracy, they are not trying to mislead anyone intentionally, and you are not being kept in the dark (purposely....of all details). You don't need to know every little detail of the progress, and the situation at Theta is more complex than you realize, this causes some of the delay- other delays are in the fact that the Casa is 13 years old!!! That's a long collection of bits and bobs from alot of different parties to have to work with.

Dan

Horse's mouth or not (and I've resisted the temptation to suggest--not from you--another orifice of the horse ), how meaningful is it when the previous poster reminds everyone that this 95% done business is what he heard nearly two years ago?

Secondly, let us be candid. Whether these are straight-shooters or not, you nonetheless served as yet another conduit to an excuse that, regardless of its potential truth, only serves to communicate the same old message: Hang On, Theta Owners.

Are you suggesting that, due to your relationship with the powers-that-be, you would leak news that Theta had failed, even if your connections urged you not to? I'm not questioning your motives or integrity at all, but you have to appreciate that it may seem coincidental to Theta-Waitas (Copyright, Me) that your inside scoop suggests that--surprise!--Theta is working hard at things, and release is "imminent" (I realize you didn't use that word--but remember, you delivered the 95-5% equation. I merely paraphrase). Where have we heard that before?

If it's like you say, then Theta should have the ethics and the balls to get on this very thread and deliver a frank assessment. If the one they leaked through you is what they want to say, they should stand up to examination over it.

Thanks,

Nick

Let's try to at least be fair and not totally exaggerate things.
What I posted about hardware being ready is not even quite 1 year old, let alone two.

Sorry, I missed the "September" part of the 2008 reference.

That said, Evelyn Sinclair's posts ocurred as early as 2007. I certainly read them to be promising HDMI back then. Did you read her posts differently?

So, okay . . . you heard the hardware ready thing a year ago, not two. Does that change anything?

Thanks,

Nick

Nick,

I don't work for Theta, I don't work for ATI- but I'm seeing what this Theta thing is doing to friends of mine (stress) and I'm trying to do my best to buffer it if I can. Theta/ATI will not come on the forums- they know they'll get decimated. You might get Carl on here, but last I knew Carl was the tech support guy- not the decision maker at Theta.
I'm not sure how to react to your third paragraph; because the way I see it- Theta isn't relevant anymore NOW, HDMI is too little too late. So for you to insinuate anything regarding me or my motives is completely off base. I'm not directed by anyone regarding this- so consider this my warning that you crossed a line with that comment.
If people are so pissed at Theta, don't buy the product. But realize that these are real people that work there, not some faceless corporation.

You know, on second thought, f- it

I'm done with this whole subject.

Dan --

Without telling us avg customers details we don't need to know, why is it that they can't level with us -- is there an explanation for the lousy PR handling? Don't see how coming clean on many points would reveal anything to the competition, most of whom
have HDMI out anyway. In short, outside of deep tech info, why the secrecy at this point? It's nonsensical.

Well, Dan, I certainly didn't intend to offend, and I explicitly said that I wasn't challenging your integrity. What I said was that you were being a conduit of an all-too-famililar message--and you were--and now you retort by saying the people at Theta will get their feelings hurt if they come on the forum to say for themselves what they had you say? Please, give me a break.

As for crossing lines, and your last two paragraphs, give me an even bigger break. If you want to funnell messages purporting to be from the horse's mouth--your words--then stand up to the scrutiny you've invited. Or were we supposed to only say nice things, because you're not nameless and faceless corporations?

Sorry you took offense.

Thanks,

Nick

I bought my Casablanca new in 1999. I have it upgraded to III with one extreme dac. I am disappointed at the most recent news, but I'm not going to panic and put my unit on Audiogon for peanuts. I am more than happy with cd play and audio from my hidef DVR's. Yes I would like to hear the new formats when I watch Blu-rays, but I guess I can't have everything.

I am willing to wait another year before I do anything drastic. I am currently waiting on a major upgrade of my DNA-2 from SMc audio, so that will have to do (apparently) for this year. In another year either Theta will have the new codecs or be close to out of business. Then I can decide what to do.

I would however not be interested in any Theta transport. I had a lot of money in a David which died after they stopped supporting the product. Yes, their customer service and PR could be a lot better, but on the whole I have been happy with my Casablanca purchase.

Hey, I give the info I have that's all I'm not trying to be a conduit. People around here get pissed at Theta and the lack of info. When I have that info I come forward with it (as long as I can be certain that it won't get anyone in trouble).

I reread your post and should admit that I misread it the first time - sorry, I think I skipped a couple words.

As far as the message is concerned, it's not mine.

Much of the concerns you guys express shouldn't be between you and the factory, but rather through your dealer. There are proper channels to route these concerns through.

I'm not worried about hurt feelings, more like a heart attack- my issue though, not yours.

Dan

"When you (consumers) hear from Carl or Mike Pontell that Theta is doing the best they can, or that they are moving forward with 100% effort towards HDMI,

YOU ARE BEING TOLD THE TRUTH!! "

If they were putting 100% of their resources into HDMI they wouldn't have anything left over to develop any other products.

They have developed other products....

Shawn

effort and resources are not the same words. I try to choose my words very carefully, I knew there was work on other proucts, so for me to say resources would have been untrue. However they really are giving 100% effort to bring this card to fruition.

Dan

I do not think that part is really true. If you talk to companies that design these things, the Casablanca would cost a fortune to design and build now from scratch. Even though the parts are older, it's still better built than most of the stuff out there.That is what I have been told by some well regarded engineers at other companies. The Krell piece for example is the only one I know of that has discrete analog outputs like the CBIII and it cost 30k. I could not afford to get the same build quality in a more current pre-pro. The dacs are still the most expensive ones that Burr-brown sell.

One of the reasons that we never took Lexicon owners like you were seriously is that you had ulterior motives. There is a feud here and to not acknowledge that is, well dishonest. Your taunting, ie 500 bets, is sort of proof of that no?

The Theta CBIII with Xtreme dacs is superior to the Lexicon MC12. If we are going to admit Theta's shortcoming. Let's admit that. I say there is denial on both sides. Theta owners never copped to Theta's shortcoming and few Lexicon owner would admit to the inferior sound. So you will excuse me for not believing your motives are so pure.

Dan, I know you to be a straight shooter. However, some of the effort is going in other directions. I do not think there is anyway around Theta admitting that.

yeah....I thought about that and also talked to them about it. We discussed the possiblity of having them put together a You Tube-like video that would show off the unit and give some information about release dates and so forth. They recieved it well and said they would look into it. We'll see. I also asked if they would be willing to come on the forum and answer a few questions. To that, they also said 'we'll look into it'. Hmmmmm. In all, I got the perception that they are very aware of the disappointment going on in the Theta community. I didn't get the sense that there was any snake oil going on or anything like that. It was more like a small company trying like the blazes to keep up with the big boys and get this thing to market while also keeping the tradition of tunring out nothing but the best. A tall order indeed. And, as you all know, that's a tall order for a small botique firm.


I mentioned before that their booth was meager but after thinking it through, I don't think it was any different than what I've seen from them in the past. Also, all the other samller outfits were doing the same thing.....at least those that showed up. For instance, I don't recall seeing Halcro or Meridian there. I can't say that they weren't. I just don't recall seeing them. At least Theta showed up, was in the main hall, at the front of their row, and very easy to locate. All the Theta equipment was displayed well and the prototype was displayed so that you could see the front as well as the back of the units. The owner of the company was there interacting with anyone that came up and answering what question he could answer. Yes, it would have been nicer had the units been in one of the theater rooms but there you go.

I don't know guys. we are where we are. Are they late? Absolutely! You could even argue that they are REALLY late. But what do you want? It's not unusual for a small company to target a release date [ okay several release dates...] only to find that they are just not ready. So you picks your poison. We've waited this long. Perhaps we can wait a little longer. As to the question of how long. Clearly the answer is 'as long as it takes to gte it right'. Ultimately, I think that's what we all want.

'Don't you think some Theta owners might put their fist through their computer screens after reading that old cliche'?? (Evelyn tried that one as well in '07).

I took a video of the unit alomg wiht some photos. I'll post them as soon as I figure out how.

I understand Jeff. Just giving you what I got.

I see... You have to almost admire how they can lie directly to your face without even the smallest of smirks.

I just don't get into pissing contests. I've given you my impressions and I'll leave it at that. You're free to do with it as you please.

Ditto. Just calling a spade a spade.

And remember, I look at this as a soap opera. Entertaining, fun and completely unrealistic.

as do i. Thanks for that. BTW, what do you know about Fume Blanc?

I do not think this to be the case. I believe some deception took place. It is my belief that Theta fired the chief engineer. Then ran around like the proverbial headless chicken and then got him back. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...d&keyw&zztheta

yeah, I know. As you well know, that's not unusual in this business. And he's back now. So whadyawannado?

Boycott all Theta products that may be released, amps, blu-ray players until the HDMI upgrade is released.

okay.....that's an option :>) BTW, your boomer ethos is pouring all over your comment. Nice to see :>)

You should be glad you never took me up on my bets. You'd be out $500.


And so what kind of babble is that? "My Theta is better than your Lexicon was?" By what standards? I won't ever get into the subjective debate that you crave, because it is so pointless.

What you disliked about the Lexicon group was that they stuck to objective criterion, when all you wanted to gush about was the drivel that made no sense, i.e., how the golden ears of those rareified few chose Theta, and you happened to be among them. Even now, when you vacillate from calling Theta something pejorative, to your little spree in the above post, you still haven't purged yourself of that need to offer homage to the god, Theta.

Sounds like the A/V version of Stockholm Syndrome. With time, there is hope.

Thanks,

Nick

Exactly what are we talking about here? We are talking about visual and auditory senses are we not? Of course there is a subjective assessment, which is why I do not like Lexicon.Even now you will not admit that the Denon sounds better than the Lexicon, you were so obsessed with that brand. You all do not get to decide what criteria Theta owners use. We chose to use sound quality not the criteria of a bunch of geeks mostly who do not even own high-end audio systems. As they do not own high-end systems, all they can do is quote objective measurements. Stick with something you know about, law. The psychological analogy is a gross misrepresentation and shows ignorance. You are not trying to help any Theta owners here. It's the same stuff you always peddle. Go away. You will not make any money here. You are the last lawyer any Theta owners would use.

Speak for yourself. I say BOYCOTT any and all high-end companies who behave in this manner.

How does one define a high-end company?

1. They charge a lot for their products.
2. Their products are finicky, i.e. does not always work
3. They take a long time to upgrade to the latest audio standards claiming how difficult the process is to achieve perfection in spite of far "lower-end" companies having already produced fully operational products. That is they keep re-inventing the wheel claiming a better wheel.
4. They have high margins for their dealers to ensure there is a reasonable number of fan boys touting the superiority of their products (see point 1).

OK, I will admit not all are like 1-4 above but a surprising many are.