Optoma HD8600 - Page 6

No Tom... I was not baiting you, but as I mentioned in the post I was simply asking a simple question... is Optoma considering Art's opinions and planning an update. I also asked for Optoma's history in doing updates.

I have dealt with many CE companies over the last 15 years or so... most of them have pretty pathetic Customer Service.... ie: Pioneer and Onkyo.

I won't go into the "painful" details, but my experience has made me very sensitive to the responsiveness of CE's Customer Service.

Personally I have never been anything but straightforward with you TOM, however you have created your own history and reputation here on AVS which perhaps may cause you to misinterpret honest questions.

My history with front projection is not as extensive as many here... I started with Sony CRT projectors back in 1977 where I spent most of my time trying to keep the silly thing properly converged... personally I have only owned 3 digital projectors... a BenQ 8700+, a Mitsubishi HD-1000u, and an InFocus SP-7210. I still own and use the last two daily. The Infocus has over 5000 hours on it and still working wonderfully.

99% of us here on AVS will never have the opportunity to spend quality or comparative time with each current crop of projectors... I will run from booth to booth at CES trying to get some type of feeling for what is available, but that pales in comparison to the opportunity that Bill, Evan, and Art have to do comparisons. Now each and every reviewer has their own personal likes and dislikes... and a knowledgeable reader has to factor those none predilections into the review. However imperfect this may be... it is the best most of us have.

Tom you are over-sensitive to questions or negative remarks...... get over it.

There are no perfect products out there. However, if improvements can be made and are addressed by the manufacturer in what is seen as a timely manner this goes a long long way in boosting a companies products in my tiny opinion.

I have personally met Tzun and Wing a couple of times at CES and they are both knowledgeable and personable Gentlemen. However, I do not have the type of relationship which would allow me to pick up the phone and say "hey have you heard about this issue... and how is Optoma going to deal with it."

Unfortunately you take the Ostrich approach and pretend there is no problem whatsoever no matter how many other people have personally seen and commented on it. If you for whatever reason want to only be an Optoma Cheerleader.... then that is fine... absolutely fine with me!

However, if you follow that course do not be offended when someone points it out.

What's the story.

What could go wrong when measuring CR?

Well, every time I power up my Optoma, I cross my fingers. Maybe Guitarman is finally acknowledging the high-end Optoma projector models lack of reliability?

me too

It has to be absolute dark and usually I'm doing something with the family or I don't wake when it's dark out. I just don't want to keep this thing around too long.

By the way Art's a nice guy but he didn't set up the HD8600 correctly. He likes bright and had the lamp Iris at 9 full open. Each number on the iris control adds or subtracks 3ftcandles. I found the more closed number of 3 put the light level at 12.5 foot lamberts off the screen. This is the reference level for digital home theater. The reviews setup has the projector showing 30 foot lamberts off the screen, way too high and not showing black the way it could be. I'd ignore any the screenshots comparing the black level of the HD8600 to the Epson or Panny.

As I understand it,t he way manufacturers measure ANSI CR, is to point their spectroradiometer at the lens and measure the eight each squares of black and white that way. This eliminates almost all extraneous light and can be made even more perfect by constructing a light absorbing hood or tunnel. Measuring off a screen in a HT is indeed very problematic.

This would be funny if it wasn't true.

any more "reviews" of this unit from new owners?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1206248

Here's one by a guy that loves Optoma(but his review is spot on!!!)

Any owners should try the Bright video choice for Football. The whole screen gets lit up and the saturation is high but looks great for the game. Each video choice sets up different configurations of DB on/off, or manual iris numbers, amounts of brilliant color. This bright choice is the one that gets the stated 1600 lumens for sure.

How does this compare to the JVC RS25/35 series?

right now, im deciding between the 8600 and the rs35. its a tough call imo, even though i haven't seen either. 2 distinctive looks and different features with both. i am leaning towards the optoma due to its brightness and very sharp optics, but even though many here have reported good things about the DI, it still is a bit of a concern for me since i am sensitive to this.

anyone have the DI off and just using manual iris? are the blacks and shadow details very close? i really care more about shadow details than actual black level.

According to arts comparing of the two projectors seems they're close but if you're senstitive to DI technology and can afford the JVC I'd get that.

noooo, im so confused. i think the optoma will throw a much sharper image with more pop, plus the added brightness is just what i need for my sports viewing. i wish i could see it in person to really judge. i will have to try and find someone local with one on display but i know that will be difficult since its so new. i don't want to get both and return the one i don't want, seeing that i will get dinged with a restocking fee for sure.

Yes I think DLP is the best always have thought so. The HD8600 has a super iris system no brightness compression the others will have BC. I found the DI very hard to detect as did many others. But then there's the super sensitive viewer that seems to notice it at every turn. I don't stare at the screen watching a movie looking for a variable with an Iris system. If it's there all the time yeah I would notice it, but I'm not digging for it, I watch the movie and enjoy the black levels when video is dark.

You want the best image than get the HD8600.

The other thing to be aware of is, when I looked at the JVCs with sport in particular, I could see really bad motion smear, which is something that do not like.

DI on cinema 1 is not detectable, to me!

The image on the hd86(00) is just perfect for me, sharp, bright and colourful, but I would suggest getting to see the options if you can!

Cheers

Guitarman:

Can you ask your sources why they decided not to implement frame interpolation for video sources like 1080i and only for film?

The trend is to use FI for video sources and turn it off for film sources and Optoma seems to have it backwards.

tom, could you also test the manual iris on the 8600 without the use of db and see how close to black you can get and if its a good tradeoff if the db bothers me? thanks.

I did test that, lowering the iris to zero was too dark 3 was a good number. Blacks looked very black with good detail CR is 4100.1, a very good number.

"The HD8600 has a super iris system no brightness compression the others will have BC."

Why do you say that?

AFAIK no DI system can rightfully claim that.

I've seen it in arts pictures, there are more stars visible with the HD8600 the JVC and Panny show crushed out stars the JVC being slighty better than the Panny. That's if we can go by arts screenshots.

"That's if we can go by arts screenshots."

So you concluded this from screenshots - I rest my case.

Cameras are notoriously unable to capture the full dynamic range of pj's.

And it's not even possible for the JVC's to have DI type BC because they don't have one.

Must be the lack of ansi contrast on the JVC. Same picture same camera all things being equal they should show what ever detail is there. Plus did you see the sharpness comparisons using the Dark Knight shot, there you could really see the DLP difference?

I stopped by Optoma USA today to exchange yet another HD81-LV due to failure. Even though it's a holiday week, Optoma service was fantastic. I also setup a demo of the HD8600 with Wing Chung. He graciously spent an hour and a half showing me the new projector and a new pocket projector to be shown at CES that is really amazing.

So, getting to the HD8600, I have to say........I'm a believer. In Cinema 1, I never saw the DI do anything untoward, it was truly seamless. Cinema 2 was bad, but Cinema 1 really delivered. I could see that Cinema 2 had a bit more CR, DI off was apparent in dark scenes, Cinema 1 made a worthwhile improvement in CR without any distractions.

I watched a bit of "Casino Royale" and a good amount of "Dark Knight", the same scenes I had watched with the HD8200 where I saw DI issues. Not a bit of it this time.

Additionally, the 8600 is brighter, the new lenses stay at f2.5 no matter the throw, are sharper even though the DMD is .65 instead of .95. My HD81-LV has nothing on this projector in sharpness. The 8600 has more lens shift range than the 8200, better Pure Motion circuit, wider color gamut with better control including options for SMPTE C and EBU color spaces.

While my HD81-LV looks pretty close in mixed field scenes, in dark scenes the 8600 CR is much better, blacks are blacker by far. The haze goes away.
Turn the DI off and it's a bit better than my LV, but not a lot.

I did not hear a thing from the iris and I was sitting right next to the projector. I did not notice white compression artifacts.

Anyway, Tom, Scotty B and Alpha 10 were right about the DI. Art at Projector Reviews must have had a faulty unit, because I'm pretty sensitive to iris issues. I could happily live with this projector if the reliability issues are overcome that other Optoma high end models have.

Yey! vindication. You know I think they should delete Cin2 but I feel it might be there to get better stats.

So you're not crazy after all, or I'm not crazy after all
thx

Good to know, but I think we are actually all crazy....

I have used Cinema 2 on some HDTV and Sports and don't mind seeing the occassional movement for the improvements. For Blu-ray Cinema 1 is king!

It would be good to have a few more owners so we can start discussing tweaking.....

Cheers

Have a good New Year all

Have any owners compared directly to the RS25/35? I'd like to hear those impressions.

Dealer friend of mine has just got the rs25 in so we can compare the two. The 8600 that he sold me was the first one he had sold. I have not changed a thing out of the box settings and think it looks great. I've been to busy enjoying to jack around with the settings. I'm on cin 1 and manual iris set to 5 for a 110 firehawk screen.

This is flat out wrong. A camera will not catch the entire dynamic range in this instance and screen shots cannot be used to judge something like this. I would have expected an expert to know this.