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Optoma HD8600 - Page 17

post #481 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

I wish I could afford an RS35. However, I'm positive the 2nd hand value of my HD750 would match the price of a new HD87 so I could switch at no extra cost. Gotta demo one though. I don't want to take a step backwards in PQ.

you may be surprised how cheap they will be selling once the rs40, 50 and 60 models are released. if you can wait, i would suggest that. if not, there are many new models out that will fit within your budget.
post #482 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

you may be surprised how cheap they will be selling once the rs40, 50 and 60 models are released. if you can wait, i would suggest that. if not, there are many new models out that will fit within your budget.

Thanks. It's interesting that in spite of huge native contrast numbers in their favour there are so many JVC owners whose greatest hopes for the next models are that they should be (a) sharper and (b) have greater ANSI contrast - both attributes closely associated with single chip DLP. Actually I've always used my HD750 with the iris half closed but I opened it up completely last night while watching Star Trek: Nemesis and the picture had much more pop and was more to my liking - inspite of what must have been elevated black levels (although they still looked pretty terrific to me!). As I understand it by opening the iris I've increased ANSI contrast, though only to about 300:1 max. The HD87 reportedly has an ANSI contrast of nearer 800:1. So I'm still going to have a demo of it and see how it stacks up against an RS25. I'll report my findings here.
post #483 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikidur View Post

Considering that the problem is present with different signal sources, direct & indirect connections, different frame rates, different cable lengths & with still pictures I guess that one could conclude that HD86 HDMI-interface operation is somehow nondeterministic. Submit a bug report to optoma? (If needed I can deliver two one minute avi-files demonstrating the issues.)

I'd very much like to receive the avi files. Then I can also compare it with what I'm experiencing with the projector.
post #484 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I'd very much like to receive the avi files. Then I can also compare it with what I'm experiencing with the projector.

Did you get them already? (Check your PM if not.)
post #485 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikidur View Post

Did you get them already? (Check your PM if not.)

Hey , I've just downloaded the files.Thanks!
post #486 of 660
I just uploaded f/w 1.11 provided by Tom and unfortunately my HD86 (EU version) started to erratically flash green frames in 24fps mode. Now I'm waiting for the old version from Tom to downgrade, however this experience leads me to conclusion that there must be some hardware difference between HD86 production models. As I remember those who had earliest f/w 1.07 have experienced this phenomena after upgrade (like my unit manufactured in Oct 2009), but f/w 1.08 units, like the one owned by rafparedis doesn't. It's very likely that this HD86 hardware change that came along with f/w 1.08 firmware just made f/w 1.07 based units incompatible with f/w 1.11. Any advice ?
post #487 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciejk View Post

I just uploaded f/w 1.11 provided by Tom and unfortunately my HD86 (EU version) started to erratically flash green frames in 24fps mode. Now I'm waiting for the old version from Tom to downgrade, however this experience leads me to conclusion that there must be some hardware difference between HD86 production models. As I remember those who had earliest f/w 1.07 have experienced this phenomena after upgrade (like my unit manufactured in Oct 2009), but f/w 1.08 units, like the one owned by rafparedis doesn't. It's very likely that this HD86 hardware change that came along with f/w 1.08 firmware just made f/w 1.07 based units incompatible with f/w 1.11. Any advice ?

My first HD86 with 1.07 was also from oct 2009. My current one that had 1.08 loaded is MF date 20100127. Could you try FW 1.08 on yours to see if that one works correctly? (I've PMed)
post #488 of 660
I believe the firmware 1.11 does not work with all HD86s that had 1.08 firmware originally. There must be some difference between the units because the 1.11 does not work in every HD86 but it may not be related to original firmware version in the unit. Maybe the units that are compatible with 1.11 are released now as HD87
post #489 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciejk View Post

I just uploaded f/w 1.11 provided by Tom and unfortunately my HD86 (EU version) started to erratically flash green frames in 24fps mode. Now I'm waiting for the old version from Tom to downgrade, however this experience leads me to conclusion that there must be some hardware difference between HD86 production models. As I remember those who had earliest f/w 1.07 have experienced this phenomena after upgrade (like my unit manufactured in Oct 2009), but f/w 1.08 units, like the one owned by rafparedis doesn't. It's very likely that this HD86 hardware change that came along with f/w 1.08 firmware just made f/w 1.07 based units incompatible with f/w 1.11. Any advice ?

Did you look to see the advancments in the Iris and CMS systems? Like I said in a PM I would keep it working for these upgrades alone and just continue with 1080p60hz you wouldn't be losing anything just gaining. I'll see if I can find 1.07 and will talk about anything it lacked.
post #490 of 660
Hi Tom, after i updated the firmware to 1.11 i am seeing the colour flash when i switch the PCH C200 to 1080p 24Hz, then when i switch back to 60Hz or 50Hz and back to 24Hz the problem at least on my machine is solved. I was informed by the local Optoma dealer that the new HD87 was out, can you please confirm if this is the same projector as the HD86 but with the new software update? Thanks.
post #491 of 660
Hey guys I see this different number firmware on a conversation between Optoma USA and Taiwan.

"I have checked with Delta the OSD & system version comparison is as below.

1.

Model
OSD version
MFG version

HD86
1.11.034
HT8601-ROTCA-PWP15
"

So the tail end numbers determine the later update PWP15 is the later 1.11, if you have something different PM me like before and I'll send it over.
post #492 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuzz View Post

Hi Tom, after i updated the firmware to 1.11 i am seeing the colour flash when i switch the PCH C200 to 1080p 24Hz, then when i switch back to 60Hz or 50Hz and back to 24Hz the problem at least on my machine is solved. I was informed by the local Optoma dealer that the new HD87 was out, can you please confirm if this is the same projector as the HD86 but with the new software update? Thanks.

What was he asking you to buy the HD87? I think the 87 has some different internal items. But still they should support the HD86 this is not a poor mans machine it's expensive.

At least this firmware I gave you will give you the upgraded iris and CMS luminance control, you can still use 1080p60 which is what you were getting with the old firmware anyway.
post #493 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

What was he asking you to buy the HD87? I think the 87 has some different internal items. But still they should support the HD86 this is not a poor mans machine it's expensive.

At least this firmware I gave you will give you the upgraded iris and CMS luminance control, you can still use 1080p60 which is what you were getting with the old firmware anyway.

No Tom, the dealer is a friend of mine and he told me that he sold the HD87, which looks exactly the same, to exactly say his words. So this means that the projectors are almost identical, and is there any new software out with a better pure motion 3 or? i am currently using 1.11 on mine i got this from you. Can you please confirm?
post #494 of 660
1.11 is the latest firmware.
post #495 of 660
Hello,

I need some help, I had buy a Optoma hd8- and my FW is 1.08 and i want to get th 1.11.

How can i get it ?

Thanks a lot and sorry for bad english
post #496 of 660
Pm me your email and I'll forward the files both 1.08 and 1.11 you can go back if you don't like 1.11.
post #497 of 660
HD87 review at AVForums here. Looks as though the HD87 has promise, although software glitches are a fly in the ointment.
post #498 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

HD87 review at AVForums here. Looks as though the HD87 has promise, although software glitches are a fly in the ointment.

well if they are working on it maybe we'll see another firmware update (hoping for it, and that it'll apply to HD86(00)). I personally hope for a fix for the HDMI glitching things .
post #499 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post
HD87 review at AVForums here. Looks as though the HD87 has promise, although software glitches are a fly in the ointment.
If you put CMS issues aside I have had none of those issues avForum listed as cons in their review. 24p does not jump and there is no HDMI handshaking issues on my unit. To my eye SD video prosessing seems to be at least on par or maybe even a tiny bit better what PS3 does so if that is average so be it

* Software bugs in the CMS system
* 24p motion jumps every few frames
* Average video processing
* HDMI Hand shake issues with a few different sources
* No way to assess calibrated performance
post #500 of 660
I've now created a small video with the flicker I've experience. Quality isn't so good and frame rate isn't high enough to accurately capture it but it's visible (webcam)

location of video
post #501 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I've now created a small video with the flicker I've experience. Quality isn't so good and frame rate isn't high enough to accurately capture it but it's visible (webcam)
[/url]

Well this is interesting... The still pictures look as if red is gone, but I think that's not really the case since the shirt turns yellow, which can be composed of red & green. Is blue gone or not?

Looking at the video I saw one flash around 8s where you clearly don't loose any of the colors completely, but the color balance goes momentarily cold.

Next I tried to repeat the colors of the shirt in the still pictures. I took the quick & brutal method: I created a powerpoint drawing object ==> format autoshape ==> fill ==> more fill colors ==> custom
... which gives a colormap with HSL or RGB values and let's you move around with mouse. I tried to repeat those light blue and yellowish shirt colours. HSL colorspace didn't give any hints but RGB did. See e.g. RGB = 218 245 245 vs RGB = 245 245 218 ==>
you get yellowish and bluish colors. Could it be that the projector internally mixes (rearranges) RGB color values?

That would explain the change in color balance without loosing any of the colors completely.

Sorry about the poor values in the example, but I hope you get the idea. Someone with better eye and more time could try to find more exact RGB ratios.


Earlier you wrote that you can't specify YCbCr 4:4:4 format for HDMI. Taking one step backwards: do you know if your equipment is using RGB or YCbCr over HDMI?
post #502 of 660
My previous proposal doesn't explain what's seen in the still pictures. I took a closer look on those and the graph data claims that all colours (RGB) are present in the noblue2-picture, but I think your camera may have had automatic white balance setting on(?).
When I plotted the normal still picture so that blue component was set to zero, it was real close to the green picture (ref: the white balance).

I also took a look on the histograms for each R, G and B but I think they don't tell much until the white balance is fixed between the shots.
post #503 of 660
Is 60hz really that bad, still one hell of a image, 3D yet not 3D many displays don't have to pop this projector has. enjoy
post #504 of 660
Hey guys,

Thanks for analyzing the data.
Sorry for a bit of confusion

The stills are taken from my first HD86 which had a different behavior than the one I have now. It had firmware 1.07 and the projector didn't really flash as sometimes the issue was even long enough for me to take a camera and take a picture of it. By disabling hdmi processing on the receiver I managed to get rid of the phenomenon, which led me to think it was a compatibility issue between the projector and the ABT2010 chip. I sent in the projector but they couldn't find a fault with it and after one month they wanted to send it back. It failed a shipping burn-in test and as a result I got a replacement.

The issue with the one I have now since then (april) is that sometimes the projector flashes (and can sometimes be several times an hour ). The issue remained the same between firmware 1.08 and 1.11. I cannot take a still from this so I created the video. The flashes appear green to me, definitely no red and it looks very much like the flashing that occurs when the projector is locking on to a source. In a previous post I stated all I did to eliminate factors that caused this but had no success.
post #505 of 660
Ok, then it might be again worthwhile to try to check what is actually happening to the color balance. I captured 3 frames from the video around that 8s spot just when the lady enters the picture, the first one is blueish, second is greenish and the third is normal. The frames are there waiting, but it will probably take a couple of days until I have some data of them.

The good thing about the video is that the white balance should be about constant there.
post #506 of 660
Thanks,

I'll see if I can lend a video capture device from a friend ( a camera or something) that can capture at 60 fps and with a bit higher quality
post #507 of 660
Does anyone notice that after the software update the black level is not as deep as before? Maybe i cannot calibrate the projector properly, i use AVS calibration disk but i do not have a calibrator. Maybe someone can post his calibration settings including CMS???
post #508 of 660
Cin2 should look deeper, Cin1 was re-worked to be less noticable. Art was real fussy about the earlier firmware and was happy with the later version. It's less aggressive so yeah the black level is higher.
post #509 of 660
Just spotted these in my pictures folder.

Now here's two good old DLP projectors, something about the image that just grabs you. You don't have to look hard at it to know it's great.

http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd8200potter1.jpg

http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd8600joker.jpg
post #510 of 660
Hello,

The hd 86 is at home for two weeks now.
I rot on french forum homecinema-fr, that I can get improvement by replacing the firmware by the latest 1.11.
Could you help me to get this latest version?
Thank you all, for your help and excuse me for my bad English.

Happy new year !!
Chrispf
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