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Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 83

post #2461 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweaked05 View Post

I think they are sending me a 3600-z. Iirc, the -z means that it is a factor refurbished unit. So it makes sense that they would rather send me a refurb than a brand new unit. I'm happy though.

Out of curiosity, why would you rather have the 3600 than the 3650?

3650 loses the pre-amp outputs, multichannel inputs, and the majority of the other inputs on the back of the unit. It even loses the power outlet on the back!
post #2462 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

I don't know what to tell you about the cable issue - but the "click" thing with the PS3 is normal for these units. It takes a second for sound to start from any source, so with the PS3 menu the first click or 2 is that "second" where it starts up. I find it a bit irritating when I am trying to play my movie intros with over my 3600 because it misses the first second of sound. I don't know why it happens, but it has been reported a lot in this thread. Same thing happens when switching sources or changing channels when the audio codec is different.

That's really disappointing. I feel like I have used other receivers that did not have such a pronounced delay, but I could be wrong. Any time you start something from pause, change channels, start a new commercial, get a little digital artifact on cable that cuts off sound for an instant, etc. The list goes on, but I feel like this unit goes silent tens of times throughout the course of any movie.

I'm probably going to get this one exchanged by HK, sell the 1650, and then test and buy something else. I'm definitely going to be buying from a brick and mortar store so I can avoid this frustrating ten day turnaround any time that I need something exchanged.
post #2463 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

3650 loses the pre-amp outputs, multichannel inputs, and the majority of the other inputs on the back of the unit. It even loses the power outlet on the back!


Don't forget the 3600 includes the Bridge III for the iPod for audio and HD video..

Just my $0.02...
post #2464 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Don't forget the 3600 includes the Bridge III for the iPod for audio and HD video..

Just my $0.02...

And the amp section on the 3650 is pretty crippled compared to the 3600 or 2600 or even the 1600 for that matter.
post #2465 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

That's really disappointing. I feel like I have used other receivers that did not have such a pronounced delay, but I could be wrong. Any time you start something from pause, change channels, start a new commercial, get a little digital artifact on cable that cuts off sound for an instant, etc. The list goes on, but I feel like this unit goes silent tens of times throughout the course of any movie.

I'm probably going to get this one exchanged by HK, sell the 1650, and then test and buy something else. I'm definitely going to be buying from a brick and mortar store so I can avoid this frustrating ten day turnaround any time that I need something exchanged.

I think it's safe to say that this is common with HK. My 8000 did it, my 354 did it, and my 3600 now does it. I don't know why, and I do find it somewhat annoying. I had Yamaha receivers in the past and they all locked onto the sound instantly. If you can't live with it, definitely look elsewhere.
post #2466 of 2820
Sound quality is important for most and in that regard the 3650 was the clear winner over even the 3600.

Besides, most people cutoff the receiver's amp section at 80hz and let the powered sub handle the frequencies which require lots of power.

Sound quality alone, it is definitely worth it over the 3600, 354 or 3550.
post #2467 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtlots View Post

I think it's safe to say that this is common with HK. My 8000 did it, my 354 did it, and my 3600 now does it. I don't know why, and I do find it somewhat annoying. I had Yamaha receivers in the past and they all locked onto the sound instantly. If you can't live with it, definitely look elsewhere.

Thanks for the advice. I do find it quite annoying, but I can understand why people with other needs are willing to look over it. I might look towards Yamaha for my replacement unit, since I hear a lot of good things about them. The support people that I have talked to have fervently denied that this is a widespread issue, even after I sent them videos of it happening on both receivers. I guess it was my key to a free "upgrade" to the 1650, which I will probably be swapping out.

Thanks for the tips, guys.
post #2468 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Sound quality is important for most and in that regard the 3650 was the clear winner over even the 3600.

Besides, most people cutoff the receiver's amp section at 80hz and let the powered sub handle the frequencies which require lots of power.

Sound quality alone, it is definitely worth it over the 3600, 354 or 3550.

In what way is the sound quality of the 3650 "clearly" superior to the others?
post #2469 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Thanks for the advice. I do find it quite annoying, but I can understand why people with other needs are willing to look over it. I might look towards Yamaha for my replacement unit, since I hear a lot of good things about them. The support people that I have talked to have fervently denied that this is a widespread issue, even after I sent them videos of it happening on both receivers. I guess it was my key to a free "upgrade" to the 1650, which I will probably be swapping out.

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Have you tried selecting the target surround decoder in advance via the GUI and input...

This will preload the surround decoding S/W, there will be a very slight delay as the decoder syncs up but it is significantly shorter than having it set to auto..

Just my $0.02...
post #2470 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Have you tried selecting the target surround decoder in advance via the GUI and input...

This will preload the surround decoding S/W, there will be a very slight delay as the decoder syncs up but it is significantly shorter than having it set to auto..

Just my $0.02...

I believe that I had done this at some point or another. When the surround mode is auto, it always selects the same thing anyway. I don't remember this significantly helping, but it may be because I remember it not helping the PS3 issue at all.

I currently have my cable box audio connected to the receiver via optical and the cable box video going to the tv via HDMI. The issue is significantly better with this setup, even if it is clunky and inconvenient.
post #2471 of 2820
I have the 1600 and have a couple of second audio delay when switching channels or coming out of FF or RW and never thought anything of it. It's not a big deal.

I have no problems with my Xbox or Wii (don't have the PS3 hooked up yet it's in another room).

The AVR so far has been rock solid and performs above its modest power rating.
post #2472 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

In what way is the sound quality of the 3650 "clearly" superior to the others?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21474832

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21479945

http://www.hometheater.com/content/h...50-av-receiver

And one more review I am still searching for that compares the amp section on the 3650 very favorably....stay tuned.
post #2473 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21474832

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21479945

http://www.hometheater.com/content/h...50-av-receiver

And one more review I am still searching for that compares the amp section on the 3650 very favorably....stay tuned.

Cool, thanks for the links. (seriously)
It is too bad they stripped so much away from it, or it might be a nice option if it truly sounds noticeably "better". For the price it is seriously lacking unfortunately.
I am a bit curious how it could sound significantly different - in tangible terms - if we assume they are both accurately reproducing the material being played without distortion - but that is a whole different discussion that may go into the realm of magic power cords and wires.
post #2474 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by beelbeel View Post

Hi guys,
I haven't had the chance to read this entire (massive) thread, but I have had an avr1600 for about 1.75 years now.

It always gave me issues with my ps3. The menu "clicks" would never come out unless I consistently made them for several seconds.

I first hooked it up to cable about 6 months ago. It basically stopped producing audio for 2 seconds or so at the beginning of every commercial. On top of that, my cable box would reset to 480p daily upon restart while connected to the avr (it would stay at 1080p when connected to the tv). The audio dropouts

After a lengthy battle, the customer service people printed a shipping label for me and exchanged my 1600 for a 1600-z. Unfortunately, the 1600-z has the same issues. On top of that, I also get occasional video blackouts (less than a second) when running video through it.

I was eventually put in touch with a customer service rep located in the US (nothing against the foreign guys, but it was clearly an escalation in the hierarchy). He has sent me a label and will be swapping it out for a 1650 after I send it back. He also says that they are going to "confirm" the issue, which sounds to me like they are going to look for an excuse to deny my claims.

This unit has been such a hassle. It's unlikely that I'm going to buy anything else by HK in the future. I may even just attempt to sell it on craigslist and buy something else, but I really don't want to saddle anybody else with this piece of junk.

Sorry to hear that. I have the 7550HD < 1 month now and I had the same problem the first time I turn it on. Now I lost the audio almost every 5 minutes after play an hour. I bought it from J&R as opened box for a very good price and I could just easily call J&R and set up a return. But from the time I hooked up I knew I am not going to return no matter what.

Prior to this one, I have a H/K AVR235 for 7 years and still working like a champ but has no HDMI so I decided for an upgrade. But after a little research online(most from this site) about the 3600(discontinue) and 3650 feature) so I decide to give Onkyo a try. I pulled the trigger for a Onkyo 709 and I don't like it at all. 709 claim to have 110watts/ch but sound no better than my 7 years old avr235 beside the HDMI feature. So I returned after 3 weeks and found this 7550HD.

I contacted H/K sustomer service and they told me I should return to the seller since still under return period but I toll them I would like to keep it if fix. H/K asked me to activate my warranty and will qualify for a -z replacement since they have no new receiver anymore. And I will reposible for shiping it back to atlanta (which will cost about $50 for shipping from me). Does anyone has any experience asking H/K paying the shipping? $50 More + a refurb, that's why holding me back and I still one more week to make up my mind.

Thanks,
Joe
post #2475 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by xftman View Post

Sorry to hear that. I have the 7550HD < 1 month now and I had the same problem the first time I turn it on. Now I lost the audio almost every 5 minutes after play an hour. I bought it from J&R as opened box for a very good price and I could just easily call J&R and set up a return. But from the time I hooked up I knew I am not going to return no matter what.

Prior to this one, I have a H/K AVR235 for 7 years and still working like a champ but has no HDMI so I decided for an upgrade. But after a little research online(most from this site) about the 3600(discontinue) and 3650 feature) so I decide to give Onkyo a try. I pulled the trigger for a Onkyo 709 and I don't like it at all. 709 claim to have 110watts/ch but sound no better than my 7 years old avr235 beside the HDMI feature. So I returned after 3 weeks and found this 7550HD.

I contacted H/K sustomer service and they told me I should return to the seller since still under return period but I toll them I would like to keep it if fix. H/K asked me to activate my warranty and will qualify for a -z replacement since they have no new receiver anymore. And I will reposible for shiping it back to atlanta (which will cost about $50 for shipping from me). Does anyone has any experience asking H/K paying the shipping? $50 More + a refurb, that's why holding me back and I still one more week to make up my mind.

Thanks,
Joe

Joe,
If you pester them enough, they will send you a shipping label. They have already sent me two. Just tell them that you don't think it is fair to pay to repair an item that you just bought. It took them a while, but they eventually started sending shipping labels to me.

I wouldn't get your hopes up about the repaired unit working better, though. It sounds like this is just a characteristic of these receivers.
post #2476 of 2820
HK sent me a label last time I had to send it in after I complained long enough. This time I didn't even bother. They are sending me a 3600, and I'm happy with that. After all, I only paid $116 for my 354 not even 4 months ago. I think I still made out pretty well.
post #2477 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Sound quality is important for most and in that regard the 3650 was the clear winner over even the 3600.

Besides, most people cutoff the receiver's amp section at 80hz and let the powered sub handle the frequencies which require lots of power.

Sound quality alone, it is definitely worth it over the 3600, 354 or 3550.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21474832

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21479945

http://www.hometheater.com/content/h...50-av-receiver

And one more review I am still searching for that compares the amp section on the 3650 very favorably....stay tuned.

Cool, thanks for the links. (seriously)
It is too bad they stripped so much away from it, or it might be a nice option if it truly sounds noticeably "better". For the price it is seriously lacking unfortunately.
I am a bit curious how it could sound significantly different - in tangible terms - if we assume they are both accurately reproducing the material being played without distortion - but that is a whole different discussion that may go into the realm of magic power cords and wires.


I too am curious how it could sound significantly different, as the 3650's amplifier topology is the same as the 3600, and several generations of their predecessors (including 1/2/3 series x54, x47, x45, x40, x35, x30)
Guess Harman knows not to mess with a good thing!

For the *amp* section, the real changes between models have been the power supply and the secondary capacitance. Naturally, the 3 series models are more stout than the 2 series, which are more stout than 1 series. Up until recently (x600) the 1 series models within the range above were 5.1 vs 7.1 for the 2/3 (excluding 6.1 avr230)

With the x600s dual secondaries on the power supply was no more and with it a loss in secondary capacitance to the comparable level predecessor, the x650s have a further cut in secondary capacitance and a physically smaller and lighter power supply.


What has changed a lot through this lineage of HK receivers are the room correction and DSP modes, which naturally have an enormous affect on the sound. I am unaware of any changes between the 3650 and 3600, besides the addition of PLIIz processing, however.

With all these models in a "pure" direct mode, you really would hear little difference between them until the power output comes into play (high volumes, demanding material, power hungry speakers, etc.)

I have owned several recent 2 and 3 series HKs while keeping the same speakers, and have always been pleased by the familiar sound they share.
Fairly recently (a couple months ago) I was finally able to get some first hand experience with the 3650 as well, installing and setup for my father.
While on paper it is definitely 'weaker', in the real world with normal listening volumes it never seems lacking in power for his small efficient bookshelf/satellite based system. We felt sound was the same as the malfunctioning AVR 254 it replaced. I'm sure if it was cranked and/or more demanding loudspeakers were used, this may not be the case. Works well for his application, however.

Also, thought I'd mention that the internet radio operation/control seems a bit quicker with the 3650 than my 7550HD when switching stations and even just scrolling through the on screen menus. The layout is of course the same.
post #2478 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Sound quality is important for most and in that regard the 3650 was the clear winner over even the 3600.

Besides, most people cutoff the receiver's amp section at 80hz and let the powered sub handle the frequencies which require lots of power.

Sound quality alone, it is definitely worth it over the 3600, 354 or 3550.


The new 50 series has revised power transformers which use a smaller guage winding and lighter cores...
Primary reason was to reduce cost and weight, that why the 50 series weigh significantly less than the models they replaced.

Regarding actual power output, the 50 series has higher peak power but lower continuous power and bandwidth due to less power supply and softer regulation. If the user is listening to a satellite/subwoofer with a 50 series AVR most likely there will be little sonic differences..
However if connected to a higher resolution full-range, lower impedance/sensitivity loudspeaker system, the sonic shortcomings of the 50 series will be quite audible.

Here HK rolled the dice that the majority of HT users use subwoofer/satellite systems so they will not miss the differences. As well as to stay
cost-competitive with the primary price-point AVR competitors such as Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha..
Only future time and AVR category sales/profits will indicate if they made the rite decision..

Just my $0.02...
post #2479 of 2820
Have been using this receiver for two weeks now, upgraded from an HK AVR 135.
Some nice features but with limitations:
1. Ability to assign BOTH video and audio source to dedicated button, but it's pretty much limited to six devices. It's way too few considering there are so many inputs on the back of the unit. The old 135 can support upto 9 devices at the same time if I remember correctly. Also it's nice to be able to override the name of the input, but you can't use the 1-9 buttons on the remote control to quickly assign alphabets?

2. Can't figure out how to force Dolby Prologic IIx or DTS Neo:6 to stereo source. It only gives Harman Virtual Speaker, All Channel stereo, Logic 7 movie, music, game modes. Really appreciate if anyone can give the right direction how to enforce Dolby Prologic IIx or DTS Neo:6 to stereo source.
post #2480 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

With all these models in a "pure" direct mode,

Just to confirm, Tone Controls set to OFF enables Pure mode ?
post #2481 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamletiii View Post

Can't figure out how to force Dolby Prologic IIx or DTS Neo:6 to stereo source. It only gives Harman Virtual Speaker, All Channel stereo, Logic 7 movie, music, game modes. Really appreciate if anyone can give the right direction how to enforce Dolby Prologic IIx or DTS Neo:6 to stereo source.

"Stereo source", equals what? -- Radio, or any source (Cable / Sat / DVD?) -- Also, is 'that' source set to PCM or Pass through? -- Maybe this won't be of much help but try the 'surround mode' quick access button, scroll down to Logic 7 music (or whatever) then > right nav control button to access the sub-menu for different DSP options. (maybe you already did this?) I show Logic 7 / DPLIIx and DTS as sub-options to each of the Movie / Music and Game options...

I had some similar head scratching moments, and I had to mess around with how the "source" is delivering the material to the AVR. -- PCM / PT / Auto / Auto detect etc. -- For whatever reason the AVR gray's out options based on the source setting... (through HDMI it does anyway)

B.t.w... What is Harman Virtual Speaker?... I see "Virtual surround" but not HVS.
post #2482 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

"Stereo source", equals what? -- Radio, or any source (Cable / Sat / DVD?) -- Also, is 'that' source set to PCM or Pass through? -- Maybe this won't be of much help but try the 'surround mode' quick access button, scroll down to Logic 7 music (or whatever) then > right nav control button to access the sub-menu for different DSP options. (maybe you already did this?) I show Logic 7 / DPLIIx and DTS as sub-options to each of the Movie / Music and Game options...

I had some similar head scratching moments, and I had to mess around with how the "source" is delivering the material to the AVR. -- PCM / PT / Auto / Auto detect etc. -- For whatever reason the AVR gray's out options based on the source setting... (through HDMI it does anyway)

B.t.w... What is Harman Virtual Speaker?... I see "Virtual surround" but not HVS.

Thanks, that works! I didn't look into the submenu. Old receiver used to have dedicated surround mode buttons, this is another drawback... Stereo means LPCM 2.0 audio from Blu-ray, CD etc. Harman Virtual Speaker is the term they use in the user manual, I guess it's the same as virtual surround.

Also does anyone know how to completely bypass HDMI with no absolutely NO onscreen menu at all? Right now f I choose HDMI bypass, and to switch the surround modes, the menu will kick in and knock off the video signal. It's pretty annoying. This happens when I want to adjust lip sync as well. Also why lip sync can only be adjusted to give positive values??
post #2483 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Just to confirm, Tone Controls set to OFF enables Pure mode ?

With the 2600/3600 - using the 6/8 channel analog input OR a stereo analog (or FM tuner) input with tone control+EQ off and Stereo bypass surround mode selected will eliminate all audio processing including bass management.
post #2484 of 2820
HK finally sent me a tracking number for my 3600. Should be here tomorrow. I'm looking forward to hooking it up and hearing the difference between it and my old 354 for myself.
post #2485 of 2820
Anybody else having any troubles connecting to a PC via HDMI. My 3600 is not receiving a signal. Plug the same cord into my monitor and it works perfectly. Any ideas?

HDMI is being feed through a GeForce GTX 580.
post #2486 of 2820
So I guess I'm the only one?
post #2487 of 2820
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post

Anybody else having any troubles connecting to a PC via HDMI. My 3600 is not receiving a signal. Plug the same cord into my monitor and it works perfectly. Any ideas?

HDMI is being feed through a GeForce GTX 580.

Have you tried hooking up a monitor at the same time as your 3600 and see if your Nvidia Control Panel is detecting the 3600?
post #2488 of 2820
The control panel is connecting the 3600. That is confirmed.
post #2489 of 2820
Try using the monitor to extend your desktop to your TV through the 3600, then once you have picture on both, shut down your PC and disconnect the monitor. Then restart with just the 3600. Sometimes you just need to jump start the control panel.
post #2490 of 2820
Hi

I just got the AVR-3600 as it supports Logic-7 from any stereo or multi-channel source.

However, when I connected my Direct-tv receiver with Optical input, all I can select in surround movie mode is Dolby PLIIx. Why? any ideas?

Quote:


Surround yourself with superior Logic 7® (5.1 and 7.1) sound.
Offering a universal multichannel sound solution for your movies, music and games on either 5.1-channel or 7.1-channel sound systems, harman kardon® Logic 7® processing takes original recordings (from stereo or any other source material) and transforms them with proprietary algorithms all our own.
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