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Samsung S, A, C Panel Differences: 2009 LCD Line-Up - Page 24

post #691 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasrattler View Post

Did you know that people have stated that by keeping ur backlight low it can have better energy saving and possibly a longer life span.

No I did not...but it makes sense
I have noticed the little "meter" that comes up on the screen when you make an adjustment indicating the power usage of the TV

I thought that was a curious item that Samsung added to the LED's

do the newer Samsung( B and C models) CCFL's or Plasmas have that feature also?

Warren
post #692 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasrattler View Post

I lowered mine to 4. Did you know that people have stated that by keeping ur backlight low it can have better energy saving and possibly a longer life span.

Yes, people have stated that. But I've never seen it from an authoritative source. I've also never seen any data to indicate how the lifetime varies with the backlight level. For instance, it could be that going from 10 to 7 makes a big difference in lifetime, but going from 7 to 4 makes only a small difference. Or that may be wrong, but there's no way to know without actual data. I've set the backlight to 8 (out of 10) which works best in my room, and if that shortens the lifetime, it's worth it to me to see the best picture.

Quote:


The reason I lowered mine below 6 is that I see less noise aka grain in the source. Setting it 6 or higher I start seeing the noise again. Some grain is normal but not when you see it alot of the channels. Poor signal quality is mostly to blame. Everyone sees things differently though.

I don't think it's possible for the backlight itself to add noise or grain to the picture. If you see it with a higher backlight setting then it is there, and it could very well be on many channels. Turning down the backlight is hiding some of the detail in the picture, but that may be a good tradeoff in your situation.
post #693 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

so you returned your B550?..or was it a B530?

I had 40B550 C panels and S panels, and neither type was really satfisfactory. The S panel had deep, true blacks, but HD looked blurry and it also suffered from clouding. The C panel had a nice sharp picture and a uniform screen, but the blacks were light and looked purplish.

Now I have a 40C630 A panel, and the blacks on it are very light. It also has a triangle-shaped area that is lighter than the rest of the panel. Again, I'm not certain if I should return it for an S panel or just go with some other brand.

Quote:


FYI...on the edge lit and even the 8500...there are many owners that place their back light at 2-3. I have mine at 4
Not sure how that would look at a CCFL...as they are by nature dimmer
I have never lowered the backlight on any on my Samsung CCFL's to lower than 7

Fluorescent bulbs generally need a high current to work properly, so it's probably a bad idea to use a low backlight. It can wind up damaging the inverter board, and probably the backlight itself.
post #694 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post

I had 40B550 C panels and S panels, and neither type was really satfisfactory. The S panel had deep, true blacks, but HD looked blurry and it also suffered from clouding. The C panel had a nice sharp picture and a uniform screen, but the blacks were light and looked purplish.

Now I have a 40C630 A panel, and the blacks on it are very light. It also has a triangle-shaped area that is lighter than the rest of the panel. Again, I'm not certain if I should return it for an S panel or just go with some other brand.



Fluorescent bulbs generally need a high current to work properly, so it's probably a bad idea to use a low backlight. It can wind up damaging the inverter board, and probably the backlight itself.

So you are have exchanged 4 TV's now?..possibly going for a 5th

I recommend you:
A. Buy a higher end Samsung.....actually there is probably a B750 left somewhere for a really good price. And frankly of the CCFL TV's that is the best there is..to my eyes anyway
B. Go with a plasma....black levels,color,screen uniformity and motion issues will all be a thing of the past...while I love my B8000 for its brightness and color reproduction. The Samsung plasma in my family room( that is 3 years old) is unbeatable for home theater viewing...no motion issues...whatsoever...and the color is always very natural looking
C. Go with another brand and save yourself some frustration

as for the CCFL's..if I were a betting man I would say those are going the way of the dinosaur for the edge lit LEDs....as soon as they can get that manufacturing cost a bit lower...think about it....thinner and brighter seems to sell TV's and its a formula that has worked well for Samsung

I see the Insignia edge lits that BB has now and how low the prices are compared to the prices Samsung was charging with the 09 models when they entered the market


Warren
post #695 of 933
hello all, first post here...

i did quite a bit of researching before making my first lcd tv purchase (including reading this whole thread) and had decided that a tv with a SS or SQ panel is what i should be looking for.

however, yesterday i saw a sammy LN40B540 that came with a free samsung Blu ray player, the price of the tv was pretty good and the free player seemed like too good a deal to pass up...so i made the purchase.
(i can always refund if need be)

unfortunately, they didn't have anything in stock with SQ02 on the outside
sticker.(like the pic in post #166 of this thread)......instead it has CK03.
(the LN40B540 i saw at costco a few days ago did have SQ02 on the box)

from all the the reading i've done, i only remember mention of SSxx, SQxx, CNxx, or BNxx panels...does anyone have any input on CK03?

thanks
post #696 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdicamillo View Post

Yes, people have stated that. But I've never seen it from an authoritative source. I've also never seen any data to indicate how the lifetime varies with the backlight level. For instance, it could be that going from 10 to 7 makes a big difference in lifetime, but going from 7 to 4 makes only a small difference. Or that may be wrong, but there's no way to know without actual data. I've set the backlight to 8 (out of 10) which works best in my room, and if that shortens the lifetime, it's worth it to me to see the best picture.


I don't think it's possible for the backlight itself to add noise or grain to the picture. If you see it with a higher backlight setting then it is there, and it could very well be on many channels. Turning down the backlight is hiding some of the detail in the picture, but that may be a good tradeoff in your situation.

U r correct in that there is no authoritative source. Their likely never will be. It's mainly just a theory but it is possible that it could make a difference. Your diffenately right about which out of backlight could make a difference. It could be going from 10 down to 7 or 8 to make a difference and going from 7 down to 4 may not make a difference. In the end tvs simply aren't made like the use to be and can break fairly easily and last only a few years.

I didn't say noise was caused by backlight. Noise has always been there. Been there since the first signal was ever invented. Todays tvs are very good and have just simply brought noise to the forfront. People are just taking more notice of it as tvs get better and better. Turning down backlight will hide the noise not remove it. To me you get better detail by setting the right amount of backlight(what you prefer) which in my case is usually between 4-6.
post #697 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestreakmirage View Post

hello all, first post here...

i did quite a bit of researching before making my first lcd tv purchase (including reading this whole thread) and had decided that a tv with a SS or SQ panel is what i should be looking for.

however, yesterday i saw a sammy LN40B540 that came with a free samsung Blu ray player, the price of the tv was pretty good and the free player seemed like too good a deal to pass up...so i made the purchase.
(i can always refund if need be)

unfortunately, they didn't have anything in stock with SQ02 on the outside
sticker.(like the pic in post #166 of this thread)......instead it has CK03.
(the LN40B540 i saw at costco a few days ago did have SQ02 on the box)

from all the the reading i've done, i only remember mention of SSxx, SQxx, CNxx, or BNxx panels...does anyone have any input on CK03?

thanks

I have only seen the CK03 on the B550 series. Im sure lt can be found in other tvs just like ur B540. C panels for the most part are considered to be the worst. S and A panels are better. There are now reports saying that there are certain As that have A-mva3 panel are even better than A-mva panels.
post #698 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post

I had 40B550 C panels and S panels, and neither type was really satfisfactory. The S panel had deep, true blacks, but HD looked blurry and it also suffered from clouding. The C panel had a nice sharp picture and a uniform screen, but the blacks were light and looked purplish.

Now I have a 40C630 A panel, and the blacks on it are very light. It also has a triangle-shaped area that is lighter than the rest of the panel. Again, I'm not certain if I should return it for an S panel or just go with some other brand.



Fluorescent bulbs generally need a high current to work properly, so it's probably a bad idea to use a low backlight. It can wind up damaging the inverter board, and probably the backlight itself.

One reason the blacks are light is that it doesn't have the UCP like the C650 series. If it had that that would have helped. I haven't noticed the blacks looking purplish on the set I see in the store. Maybe on the 40C530 but not the 40C630. I would think of returning it and get the C650. The 40C650 still has the A panel at least in my area. There is supposedly 2 kinds of A panels, A-mva3 and A-mva. A-mva3 is suppose to be better if it really exists.

So you recommend a backlight of no less than 7 with an LCD?
post #699 of 933
UCP?

Hey when you guys talk about good blacks....if you are in a dark room and you turn on your TV (with auto dimming off in service menu) doesn't the black screen still birghten the room like a really dim nightlight? I don't know if I can capture what I am talking about with a camera.
post #700 of 933
if you are looking for high performance AUO panel
look for these "AUO TxxxHW04 v3" or "AUO TxxxHW04 v1"
both 10bits and able to go above 5000:1 ANSI Contrast Ratio


AUO TxxxHW04 v0(8Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v1(10Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v2(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v3(10Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v4(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v5(Unknown)

TxxxHW04 v3 Subpixels Photo Provided by members at Mobile01 Taiwan
(Subpixels go from Red to Green to Blue by looking from left to right)


Taiwan AUO is using PSA technology (Polymer Sustained Aligment) while Sharp is using UV2A。
PSA invented by Taiwan AUO (Stop calling it a VA type because it is a brand new type PSA)
UV2A invented by Japan Sharp

Currently AUO has AMVA3 4000:1 5000:1 8000:1 and AMVA5 16,000:1
post #701 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

UCP?

Hey when you guys talk about good blacks....if you are in a dark room and you turn on your TV (with auto dimming off in service menu) doesn't the black screen still birghten the room like a really dim nightlight? I don't know if I can capture what I am talking about with a camera.

Ultra Clear Panel
An element of Samsung LCD's that xxx650 models and higher

Supposed to add to the contrast ratio...according to Samsung literature


Warren
post #702 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by KakimotoRift View Post

if you are looking for high performance AUO panel
look for these "AUO TxxxHW04 v3" or "AUO TxxxHW04 v1"
both 10bits and able to go above 5000:1 ANSI Contrast Ratio


AUO TxxxHW04 v0(8Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v1(10Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v2(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v3(10Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v4(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v5(Unknown)

TxxxHW04 v3 Subpixels Photo Provided by members at Mobile01 Taiwan
(Subpixels go from Red to Green to Blue by looking from left to right)


Taiwan AUO is using PSA technology (Polymer Sustained Aligment) while Sharp is using UV2A。
PSA invented by Taiwan AUO (Stop calling it a VA type because it is a brand new type PSA)
UV2A invented by Japan Sharp

Currently AUO has AMVA3 4000:1 5000:1 8000:1 and AMVA5 16,000:1

I thought there were 12 bit available now?


Warren
post #703 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I thought there were 12 bit available now?


Warren

10bit = Panel

12bit = Color Processing

they are different thing
post #704 of 933
But how in world do you know the exact panel? Most of the time it can't been seen. Is there any real way to tell by looking at the box or anything?
post #705 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by KakimotoRift View Post

if you are looking for high performance AUO panel
look for these "AUO TxxxHW04 v3" or "AUO TxxxHW04 v1"
both 10bits and able to go above 5000:1 ANSI Contrast Ratio


AUO TxxxHW04 v0(8Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v1(10Bit/5000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v2(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v3(10Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v4(8Bit/4000:1)
AUO TxxxHW04 v5(Unknown)

TxxxHW04 v3 Subpixels Photo Provided by members at Mobile01 Taiwan
(Subpixels go from Red to Green to Blue by looking from left to right)


Taiwan AUO is using PSA technology (Polymer Sustained Aligment) while Sharp is using UV2A。
PSA invented by Taiwan AUO (Stop calling it a VA type because it is a brand new type PSA)
UV2A invented by Japan Sharp

Currently AUO has AMVA3 4000:1 5000:1 8000:1 and AMVA5 16,000:1

@KakimotoRift - You seem to have some insider knowledge on AUO product lines, any thoughts on the AUO T460HW03 V.9 panel in my 46" B540? Contrast ratio? Panel bit depth? AMVA3?

BTW - Still loving the 46", so glad I upgraded!
post #706 of 933
AMVA5 is supposed to start being manufactured in the 2nd half of '10. It isn't listed as one of the panels on AUO's website.
post #707 of 933
Here is a list of panels that I have gathered. This is a updated version of my panel list.

2009 models/panels:
55B6000(LED) - SQ01
55B650 - CN01
46B6000(LED) - BN01
46B650 - SS02
46B550 - AA01
40B550 - CK03
40B530 - CN01

2010 models/panels:
55C8000(3D LED) - SQ01
55C7000(3D LED) - SQ01
55C6500(LED) - SQ01
55C650 - SQ01
55C630 - SQ01
50C7000(3D Plasma) - N002
46C6500(LED) - SQ01
46C6300(LED) - SQ01
46C750(3D LCD) - SQ01
46C650 - SQ01
46C630 - SQ01
46C550 - AA01
46C530 - AA01
40C6300(LED) - SQ01
40C5000(LED 60hz) - CN01
40C650 - AA01
40C630 - AA01
40C550 - CN01
40C530 - CN01
32C530(1080P) - AA02
32C350(720P) - BN01
post #708 of 933
hey texasrattler thanks for the reply,

yeah, from all the research i've done it does appear that the C panels are not as great as the others.

but, here's where i find it kind of confusing...
the LN40B550 seems to have good reviews from owners and it has the CK03 panel...(also has a higher contrast ratio, than the LN40B540)

so does that mean that this newer batch of LN40B540 with the CK03 panel would have a better display than even the proven SQ/SS panels?

i'm still undecided (still haven't opened my LN40B540 yet) on whether i should keep the LN40B540 (CK03) panel that i got from BB, or whether i should return it and get the LN40B540 (SQ02) version that's at Costco.

hope you guys can help...thanks
post #709 of 933
From what I understand, the S panel will give you better colors and PQ should be better.
Why are you buying the B(2009) models, the C(2010) models are newer and in alot of cases better.

The B550 is a higher model than the B540. The B540 is usually just a BB tv. Meaning it's not found everywhere like the B550 is/was. I would return it and get the S panel version, that is likely a newer model than the C panel since the C panel came out first then was likely updated to the S panel.
post #710 of 933
I just wanted to add that my un55c6500 is version "sn01". I haven't seen sn01 listed anywhere yet.
post #711 of 933
Ive never seen it either. What I would like to know is if there is or what is the difference between a SS,SQ or SN panel? It must mean something otherwise why change the letters. Whether it means anything significant is what we need to find out.
post #712 of 933
wow, like many others, seems like getting a flat panel is a big tedious adventure....

after exhaustive researching, and deliberating, i decided on an LCD instead of plasma.
then narrowed it down to samsung, and then finally decided on the 40" B series because of price.

then after that all that, and thinking the adventure was almost over...i found out about
the panel dilemma! and after much more reading about it... i'm still at a cross roads.

so here's where i'm at now.
(i know listing prices is a no no...so i'll list the differences in price (hope that's ok)

#1.- B540 (SQ02)
#2. - B540 (CK03) - $20 more, but i got a free samsung blu ray player.

texasrattler: below are the options i have if i was to consider the B550 or C550.

#3. - B550(CK03) - $50 more than the B540(CK03)....but is it worth it?
considering it's the same panel as the B540 and minus a blu ray player

#4. - C550(????) - $200 more than the B540(CK03) but is the picture quality really that much better? and worth the extra $200?



i'd be willing to go with option #1 and give up the blu ray player if the SQ02 is that
much better than the CK03..since i wouldn't be spending anything extra.

option#3 doesn't make much sense, since it's the same panel as option#2 so i'm guessing it has a similiar PQ...right?
(and the free blu ray player of #2 makes option #3 seem even less worth it.)

and option#4 pushes me out of this price range. i actually considered it for awhile, but then thought, if i'm gonna spend $200 more why not $300, or why not $500 and go for an LED tv...then i realized i had ballooned the budget 70% more...not to mention it'd mean i'd have to start a new adventure in researching tv's in this new price range.

sorry for the long post, but to answer your question texasrattler, these are the reasons
why i'm deciding on the (2009) B series, i'm comfortable with the price range...but this
panel thing is just making me second guess my purchase.

thanks again for your input.
post #713 of 933
Personally I would go with the C550 but since money is a main factor, I would go with option 1 because it will be a better tv than option 2 for PQ and the blu ray player ain't a deal break breaker as you can easily pick them up for $180 or less, especially on a good sale or black friday sale.
post #714 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestreakmirage View Post

#1.- B540 (SQ02)
#2. - B540 (CK03) - $20 more, but i got a free samsung blu ray player.

texasrattler: below are the options i have if i was to consider the B550 or C550.

#3. - B550(CK03) - $50 more than the B540(CK03)....but is it worth it?
considering it's the same panel as the B540 and minus a blu ray player

#4. - C550(????) - $200 more than the B540(CK03) but is the picture quality really that much better? and worth the extra $200?

Aside from cosmetics, the 540 and 550 are the same TV, regardless of Samsung's phony specs. It says so in the service guide.

If you had researched this thread more, you would've seen that I reviewed both the S and C versions of the 40B550. My conclusion was that the C panel is the better TV overall. While the S panel has somewhat better blacks, it also looks very blurry and grainy in comparison. It uses the same panel as the low end Toshiba 40RV525R, which leads me to believe it's just leftover stock that Samsung is trying to unload.

My advice is don't believe the hype that S panels are always the best. It all depends on the specific model. At the high end - 7 series and above - it probably is true that the S version is generally better. For midrange and low end models, it can be very difficult to determine what panel type is best, and if you're uncertain, try and find out which one is the most common. That will probably represent the latest technology, and the best TV.
post #715 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasrattler View Post

Ive never seen it either. What I would like to know is if there is or what is the difference between a SS,SQ or SN panel? It must mean something otherwise why change the letters. Whether it means anything significant is what we need to find out.

The second letter - S, Q, N, etc. - merely indicates the facility where the panel was manufactured.

The number - e.g., 02 in SQ02 - supposedly indicates the quarter of manufacture, but my suspicion is that it may indicate panel quality or something else, because there are SQ02 models at the beginning of the model year and no one ever seems to get an SQ01 panel.
post #716 of 933
do you think there are different panels in different models which have the same designation?
for example an SQ02 in a high end model is different from a SQ02 in a C550?
post #717 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by camzio View Post

do you think there are different panels in different models which have the same designation?
for example an SQ02 in a high end model is different from a SQ02 in a C550?

That's right. An SQ02 B750, for example, uses a completely different type of panel than an SQ02 B550 or C550.

As you move up in price, the red, green, and blue subpixels move from horizontal chevrons >>> to rectangles |||. The 6 series S panel is sort of a hybrid, where the subpixels can look like one or the other, depending on the brightness of the image. With AMVA3 technology, the subpixels are always rectangular, which is why I think in many cases an A panel might actually be more desirable than a Samsung panel.
post #718 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post

The second letter - S, Q, N, etc. - merely indicates the facility where the panel was manufactured.

The number - e.g., 02 in SQ02 - supposedly indicates the quarter of manufacture, but my suspicion is that it may indicate panel quality or something else, because there are SQ02 models at the beginning of the model year and no one ever seems to get an SQ01 panel.

The store I work in, we got SQ01 panels in March. Its in 46C630 and up. Have yet to see a SQ02 for any 2010 model in the store.
post #719 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post

That's right. An SQ02 B750, for example, uses a completely different type of panel than an SQ02 B550 or C550.

As you move up in price, the red, green, and blue subpixels move from horizontal chevrons >>> to rectangles |||. The 6 series S panel is sort of a hybrid, where the subpixels can look like one or the other, depending on the brightness of the image. With AMVA3 technology, the subpixels are always rectangular, which is why I think in many cases an A panel might actually be more desirable than a Samsung panel.

Is that why the B750 got so many good reviews? It is considered one if not the best CCFL/LCD tv. It's panel was just simply better than any other SQ02?
post #720 of 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike999 View Post

That's right. An SQ02 B750, for example, uses a completely different type of panel than an SQ02 B550 or C550.

As you move up in price, the red, green, and blue subpixels move from horizontal chevrons >>> to rectangles |||. The 6 series S panel is sort of a hybrid, where the subpixels can look like one or the other, depending on the brightness of the image. With AMVA3 technology, the subpixels are always rectangular, which is why I think in many cases an A panel might actually be more desirable than a Samsung panel.

i looked at the pixel of 55C7000 led today and they seemed to have the lll shape as you mentioned, while the 40C650 lcd had the >>> shape, can anyone confirm that? both were SQ's
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