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When it comes to cables/wires...

post #1 of 17
9/14/09 at 1:06am
Thread Starter 
...is a certain name brand crucial to invest in (if there is a such a thing)? What about when it comes to the size of the cable? Do cables have signal degradation the longer they are (where applicable of course)?
I imagine there is probably dependencies on what it is I would refer to, so give me your knowledge on the following:

Speaker wire
Coaxial cale
Network cable
HDMI cable
Power cable
other a/v cables

As for HDM, I know alot of people say you don't need to buy the expensive Monster cables. That the cheap $3 ones (not Monster) will produce the same image quality. At least that's what I'm reading from reviews of the $50 cables. Even CNET said so. I actually tried out the Monster cable versus a cheap one and I couldn't tell the difference.

Also, I wanted to mention we have AT&t U-Verse and in my sisters room she has the Motorola VIP1200 cable box connected to her Toshiba 40RV525U HDTV via HDMI. We are subscribed to HD content and get a 1080i image on the HD channels, yet the picture still looks rather pixelated on her TV even when watching the HD channels (I notice this especially when there is motion). Thing is my moms SDTV was having problems with stuttering images and the guy from AT&t came out and changed the coaxial cable that was hooked up to the cable box (the one that goes outside I mean). it not only stopped the stuttering but it cleaned up the image too. He said we were probably using a store bought cable and that is most likely what causes those pauses (this and because it was old) and why the cables he was using improved the image.

Now we asked him if he did the same thing for the other TV's and he said yes, although I never saw him do it. Is there any way to verify if he did? Because if he didn't, I'm thinking maybe getting a new coaxial cable, with your recommendations of course, would help improve the image of my sisters TV. If this is not the case and it's just that her TV isn't that great, let me know. One thing I do know is we just got a Panasonic TC-P50G10 for the living room and I don't see that same pixelation on the HD channels.

Finally, just wanted to add, will a get a worse looking picture if I hook up a extension cables to other cables. So say like a power cord extension to a power cord or a coaxial cable to another? Any info on other cables?

I posted this here because I thought this was the right place to put it according to the forum description. Sorry for the long post and thankyou to anyone who can help me.
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post #2 of 17
9/14/09 at 6:38am
In general terms wire is wire...

Speaker wire- As long as the gauge (wire size) is big enough 16-12 should be big enough for most.

Coaxial cable- RG-6 should handle anything you need. Use compression type connectors. Don't worry about getting quad-shield unless you actually have signal ingress issues. Most coaxial issues are caused by improper connector installation.

Network cable- CAT-5 is standard if you are wiring in wall on a new construction you might as well run CAT-6 or at least CAT-5e for the future

HDMI cable- You answered you own question correctly

Power cable- The cables the come with your equipment are fine

other a/v cables- as long as you do not buy super cheap any decently constructed interconnect will perform as well and any other.
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post #3 of 17
9/14/09 at 2:01pm
I would say guy, that different brand of cable don't make much difference, if any, as long as you are using the correct cable for which it was designed for, correct impedance/capacitance and all that jazz.

But u may yet start another age-old cable war thread.

What is more important, as your cable-TV experience shows, the cable guy DOES HAVE DIAGNOSTIC EQUIPMENT, that means he can, and probably did, hook up his signal monitor and note any abnormality and fixed corroded connectors and/or turn up the signal a bit at the pole at the same time, and for you all he did/say he did was to give u a new cable. He may had done other things based on this instrument readings.
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post #4 of 17
9/14/09 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies. So then will the audio/video, data transfer speed or anything else that is important, degrade in longer cables? In other words does it matter if I get longer cables?

To 11001011: in response to this statement, "as long as you do not buy super cheap any decently constructed interconnect will perform as well and any other.", could you give me a price range I should belooking at for various types of cables? Thanks again.
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post #5 of 17
9/14/09 at 8:52pm
Yes, signals will degrade on longer cables. This is particularly an issue for HDMI. For short runs of a few feet, just about any HDMI cable will work. For longer runs at higher resolutions and color depths, cable quality becomes an issue. Read the relevant articles on the Blue Jeans Cables site.

12 gauge speaker cable is generally fine out to about 50 feet. Beyond that the capacitance and inductance inherent in the cable begins to affect the sound. But it is really nothing than cannot be corrected with tone controls or an equalizer.

As for coaxial cables (e.g. RG-6)... If they are transmitting digital signals (e.g. digital audio), to some extent what he said is true. It is a question of good enough. If the signal is good enough, you get perfect sound. If they are transmitting analog signal, it is a bit of a different story. The closer the cable stays to the characteristic impedance throughout, the better quality the picture will be because less of the signal will be reflected within the cable. This is basically a question of how well the geometry is controlled. Companies like Belden do a better job at this than most of the off-shore suppliers.
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post #6 of 17
9/14/09 at 9:22pm
Signal WILL degrade with distance, that's just physics. That's why the different hookup types have SPECIFICATION, drawn up by the engineers who designed them, to have a max recommended length.
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post #7 of 17
9/14/09 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Dominguez View Post

T
To 11001011: in response to this statement, "as long as you do not buy super cheap any decently constructed interconnect will perform as well and any other.", could you give me a price range I should belooking at for various types of cables? Thanks again.

Well it's really a matter of personal preference. I would not buy interconnects from the Dollar Store, (although I have got Philips DVI-HDMI cables from Big Lots and I have bought "Monster" RCA cables at Goodwill) but I would not buy them from some audio boutique either. Many people here recommend Blue Jeans Cables for reasonable price ranges.
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post #8 of 17
9/15/09 at 2:27am

Welcome to the Forum, Rene!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Dominguez View Post

Also, I wanted to mention we have AT&t U-Verse and in my sisters room she has the Motorola VIP1200 cable box connected to her Toshiba 40RV525U HDTV via HDMI. We are subscribed to HD content and get a 1080i image on the HD channels, yet the picture still looks rather pixelated on her TV even when watching the HD channels (I notice this especially when there is motion).

A certain amount of this is inherent in an LCD screen. You might want to check the if the cable box has a relevant menu setting – 720p, 1080i, etc. You might try different settings to see which looks best (or maybe another of our Members can make a recommendation).
Quote:


Now we asked him if he did the same thing for the other TV's and he said yes, although I never saw him do it. Is there any way to verify if he did?

If you ‘re talking about in-wall cabling, then probably not. But something sounds strange there, about the outside cable being store-bought. That’s highly unlikely, as it’s typically the cable company that runs the outside cabling. Perhaps he was talking about the cable between the wall and the cable box? If so, it should be easy to verify: See if the cables in the other rooms look like the one in your mother’s. The connectors especially would look the same.
Quote:


Finally, just wanted to add, will a get a worse looking picture if I hook up a extension cables to other cables. So say like a power cord extension to a power cord or a coaxial cable to another?

There should be no noticeable (on the screen) difference.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
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post #9 of 17
9/15/09 at 12:02pm
Try Calrad.com. They are based here in Hollywood and have an excellent stock in house and fast shipping. They carry all kinds of cables for every signal type. They are not just a repacking house. They have in house engineers and produce quite excellent quality cables for very reasonable prices.

I have been buying from them in large quantity for many years.

BTW It is so refreshing to read posts from folks who understand the basic physics of speaker cabling and discard the sales hype. THANK YOU!!
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post #10 of 17
9/17/09 at 12:26am
Thread Starter 
Thanks again to everyone for the replies.

Colm, I read some of those articles. Mostly the ones that talked about HDMI. Pretty interesting stuff.

Wayne, first of all, thanks for the welcome! Yes we've had the option from the menu set to 1080i and are still getting that pixelated look. My sister says she doesn't really notice it when watching HD channels but I do. Thing is before we had U-verse, we had Dish Network and before that, Time Warner. I'm quite positive all the companies installers have come out and put up new cables for different devices. We also put up a big store-bought antenna on the roof years ago. I don't remember if we actually had to buy outside coax cables to hook up the antenna to the TV's in our house, or if there was cable that were already there. Anyways, here is a picture of the culprit that was causing all those stuttering images.(ignore the paint on the cable)



By the way, the first U-verse installer didn't change out this cable. The second one did, after we reported the distorted images of course. Another thing he did tell me though, was that companies tend to use cables that other companies have already placed outside (at least this is what I believe what he was trying to tell me, as were discussing this in my backyard, although I could be wrong). I don't know if this is what you were trying to tell me in your post as well, haha.

Anyhow, the audio doesn't sound as good as it used to on the Panasonic TV in our living room when watching a TV broadcast. We have also started to see the same type of pauses like on my sisters TV. I was thinking of calling up At&t to let them know about the situation. Except, last time they came out they wanted to charge us for it. I'm thinking they will want to try and charge us again.

If this is the case and it's more costly to us, for them to come out and install the cables then for me to buy the cables and do it myself, I would rather it be the latter. In any event, can any of you point me to a web site that shows you diagrams of how coaxical cable wall plates are set up (and how to set one up) as my sister has this "setup" in her room (I wasn't able to find anything relevant on google and I even browsed these forums, but I'm sure you guys would know). As for the living room, I'm not positive about that hook-up. All I know is that there is a hole in the wall and I can't see anything inside.

Gizmologist, thanks for the suggestion.

All of you have been a great help.
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post #11 of 17
9/17/09 at 11:04am
Short answer = monoprice.com

No need to spend $$$ on good quality cables.
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post #12 of 17
10/2/09 at 6:47pm
My advice.. You can get 700.00 PC for under 200 used cause the seller realizes that the price to performance for a PC is very poor.. But spending under 200, for a legit 700.00 PC is a good deal IMO.. As I believe PC CAN make a difference.

Belkin RCA is the real deal.. I prefer them over my 80.00 Cardas silver, 40.00 Monsters, & 10.00 Monoprice RCA.. I know placebo tells me the Cardas 'sound better' cause they were 80.00, but the Belkin has better prat & dynamics.. So, I don't know what to believe.. Just don't assume a 100 cable will better a 10.00 cable..
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post #13 of 17
10/2/09 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11001011 View Post

In general terms wire is wire...

Speaker wire- As long as the gauge (wire size) is big enough 16-12 should be big enough for most.

Coaxial cable- RG-6 should handle anything you need. Use compression type connectors. Don't worry about getting quad-shield unless you actually have signal ingress issues. Most coaxial issues are caused by improper connector installation.

Network cable- CAT-5 is standard if you are wiring in wall on a new construction you might as well run CAT-6 or at least CAT-5e for the future

HDMI cable- You answered you own question correctly

Power cable- The cables the come with your equipment are fine

other a/v cables- as long as you do not buy super cheap any decently constructed interconnect will perform as well and any other.

That is so true. I bought cheapo 6.00 ps3 component cables, & got the rainbow effect on my TV screen. It would change from green, pink, red, to blue.. Bought the Sony component cables for 24.00 & my picture is crystal clear. Buy, cheap but smart.. as in Build quality.. I do slightly disagree with you on the power cables though.. I think they are more important then you think they are.
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post #14 of 17
10/2/09 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Dominguez View Post

...is a certain name brand crucial to invest in (if there is a such a thing)? What about when it comes to the size of the cable? Do cables have signal degradation the longer they are (where applicable of course)?
I imagine there is probably dependencies on what it is I would refer to, so give me your knowledge on the following:

Speaker wire
Coaxial cale
Network cable
HDMI cable
Power cable
other a/v cables

As for HDM, I know alot of people say you don't need to buy the expensive Monster cables. That the cheap $3 ones (not Monster) will produce the same image quality. At least that's what I'm reading from reviews of the $50 cables. Even CNET said so. I actually tried out the Monster cable versus a cheap one and I couldn't tell the difference.

Also, I wanted to mention we have AT&t U-Verse and in my sisters room she has the Motorola VIP1200 cable box connected to her Toshiba 40RV525U HDTV via HDMI. We are subscribed to HD content and get a 1080i image on the HD channels, yet the picture still looks rather pixelated on her TV even when watching the HD channels (I notice this especially when there is motion). Thing is my moms SDTV was having problems with stuttering images and the guy from AT&t came out and changed the coaxial cable that was hooked up to the cable box (the one that goes outside I mean). it not only stopped the stuttering but it cleaned up the image too. He said we were probably using a store bought cable and that is most likely what causes those pauses (this and because it was old) and why the cables he was using improved the image.

Now we asked him if he did the same thing for the other TV's and he said yes, although I never saw him do it. Is there any way to verify if he did? Because if he didn't, I'm thinking maybe getting a new coaxial cable, with your recommendations of course, would help improve the image of my sisters TV. If this is not the case and it's just that her TV isn't that great, let me know. One thing I do know is we just got a Panasonic TC-P50G10 for the living room and I don't see that same pixelation on the HD channels.

Finally, just wanted to add, will a get a worse looking picture if I hook up a extension cables to other cables. So say like a power cord extension to a power cord or a coaxial cable to another? Any info on other cables?

I posted this here because I thought this was the right place to put it according to the forum description. Sorry for the long post and thankyou to anyone who can help me.

As a Best Buy employee, I steer customers to the cheapest accessories possible.. Dynex over Monster & rocket fish.. Good, but cheap SP.. I checked one customers receipt, & I wanted to cry. He spent nearly 700 on unnecessary accessories. I really want to say something, but I would get fired. I feel like telling customers in morse code, monoprice.com. HDMI cables shouldn't have to cost you 30-150..
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post #15 of 17
10/2/09 at 7:24pm
I was at a BB buying a large CRT set about 5 years ago. The little kid "salesman" kept pushing me to buy all the extras and I told him several times he was preaching to the choir. He evidently had never heard that before.

I finally pulled out a business card and simply explained that I have been in the professional audio visual business for about 30 years longer than he has been alive.

I then asked to see the manager and explained that he needs to tell his salespeople to accept "no thanks" when a customer refuses all the useless gadgets. That is the best way to teach the salespeople and save a sale. I also took the time to explain the electrical information to the young kid so he hopefully would actually understand the technology and not just the commission structure.
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post #16 of 17
10/4/09 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

I was at a BB buying a large CRT set about 5 years ago. The little kid "salesman" kept pushing me to buy all the extras and I told him several times he was preaching to the choir. He evidently had never heard that before.

I finally pulled out a business card and simply explained that I have been in the professional audio visual business for about 30 years longer than he has been alive.

I then asked to see the manager and explained that he needs to tell his salespeople to accept "no thanks" when a customer refuses all the useless gadgets. That is the best way to teach the salespeople and save a sale. I also took the time to explain the electrical information to the young kid so he hopefully would actually understand the technology and not just the commission structure.

No, they are taught to sell accessories.. Media is the worst.. Like a chain letter.. The Media sup explained to me... Ok.. You get a 360.. Then try selling a extra controller so a friend can play.. Ask what TV he has? HDTV great! sell him some component/HDMI.. Then inquire about Xbox live play, & Geek squad set up. etc, etc..Need to keep your 360 cool right.. I swear it's a racket..
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post #17 of 17
10/4/09 at 1:42pm
However when a customer says politely to BACK OFF, that is the clue (or should be) to stop annoying the customer. This kid almost cost BB an 800.00 sale.

I getb the same thing whenever I have to go to Rad Shack for some quicky little gadget. They ask may I help you fins something and I say, No thanks I know where everything is already. then they hover as though I am either casing the joint or they just cant believe I know what I am looking for.

I used to get so amused at their old tag line " You got questions? We got answers". uh yea right. 99% of these kids know zilch about electronics.

A true pro salesperson knows when to back off.
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