Marantz SR6004/SR5004 Owners' Thread - Page 8

I'm having some problems with dialog in movies with my sr6004. It's sometimes very hard hear what the actors are saying. But if they talk loud or shouting the sound is clear. Sometimes I have to increase the volume, but it's not always possible because music and effects get quite loud. I have experienced this in DD 5.1 and DTS and I think also in Pro Logic and Neo. I currently use Audyssey but it's the same problem without it.

SR6004 won a 900 - 1300 euros receiver test in Finnish hi-fi magazine Hifimaailma (issue 7/2009).

The competition that got whipped consisted of Denon AVR-2310, NAD T 747, Onkyo TX-NR807, Pioneer VSX-LX52 and Yamaha RX-V1900.

this is also good news for sr5004 owners since sr6004 and sr5004 are so close to each other and the test results can be applied analogically to both.

Are you hooked into your receiver through an HDMI cable or optical audio or composite? The reason I'm asking is, Could it be a cable problem or is it the receiver?

Legis,

When I bought my unit, it was kind of like going out on the edge of a limb for me. I previously owned a Denon and before that a Yamaha and before that an Onkyo. I liked them all, and probably like the Denon the best of the three. So, I was hesitant about going with Marantz, especially after looking at the numbers of hits on this forum. The competition seems to be a lot more popular.

But, after listening to this thing, the results that you posted don't surprise me in the least. The Marantz just sounds good. It lacks in bells and whistles (for example: it doesn't have an ethernet port), but it really does sound sweet. And that is what I want in a receiver. I want it to sound sweet! Thanks for posting that information. It is good to know, our ears aren't deceiving us.

If you like the sound right now wait 10 more days then you will absolutely love it! It really does break in after a couple of days. You will get much clearer highs after it has broken in.

Indeed it is an exceptional receiver with very "accurate" sound.

I got said review of SR 6004 today and I did some research of Marantz's amps. I posted yesterday:
The 6004 really shined in analog inputs in source/pure direct mode. S/N-ratio averaged 6 dB better in Marantz than in it's rivals, which is quite big difference. Difference betwenn Onkyo 807 and SR 6004 was 9dB, which is almost double the sound pressure (=10 dB difference doubles the sound pressure). The reviewer said that Marantz 6004 sounds a lot like their 2-channel amplifiers, so the stereo output is really nice for an av-receiver.

So a tip for Marantz owners: accoding to the review it's highly recommended to use analog inputs in every source where it's possible.

Digital input produce slightly more harsh and metallic sound in highs according to reviewer's taste.

The overall sound in both digital and analog inputs is highly controlled (bass control and extension was one of the best in review), clear and lively but not being fatiguing at all or too "in to your face". Reviewer really liked the sound of the amp (so does Legis ). Marantz had best upconverter for analog video signals.


SR 6004 power ratings according to the review:

8 ohms stereo RMS/dynamic: 130/150 watts.
8 ohms 5-channel RMS/dynamic: 94/98 watts.

Power ratings go in accodance with last 03 series' power ratings, although they are slighly lower in new 04 series... The reason for this difference can also be in the used measuring technique.


I also researched SR 5003 and SR 6003 amps a little. According to these reviews (SR 6003 and SR 5003) of SR 5003 and 6003 one can see that both amps have nearly identical power output. Ergo: SR 5003 and 6003 use same/nearly same amplifiers.


Power rating of 5003:

2 channels driven continuosly into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 153.1 watts
1 percent distortion at 171.3 watts.

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 103.8 watts
1% distortion at 118.0 watts


Power rating of 6003:

8 ohm stereo: 130 watts of rated power. (THD% was not mentioned)
8 ohm 5-channel: 111 watts of rated power.

(These power ratings were taken from the websites mentioned in the last paragraph)


I highly suspect that also new SR 5004 and SR 6004 are very likely almost identical in respect of power output and sound quality, just like the older series is. 5004 and 6004 weight the same and inside of the amps look identical. Marantz's website also shows that they are nearly identical when you compare the two model with each other. http://www.marantz.com/

Where the 5004 and 6004 differ is that 5004 misses usb-post, couple digital inputs, one HDMI input and outputs and has different front panel.

If someone can compare 5004 and 6004 side by side, it would be really nice. I hope that some website puts the 5004 to test bench soon.

Sorry for long post


EDIT:
Oh, and short summary of the rest of the amps' sound (best to worst, review used emphasis 50% on sound, 25% on video and 25% on features):

1) Marantz - read above
2) Onkyo: Sound was too laid back and not so interesting to listen to. Bass control was average but it lacked power at the lowest frequencies. Sound did not have much room. Good overall both in analog and digital inputs.
3) Pioneer: VSX-LX52: Had the clearest highs in the group, but sounded bit hard. Some records can sound fatiguing. Rhytmic response was good but bass lacked little oo the "emancipation". Best sound in digital input but loses to Marantz in analog inputs. Worst converters for analog video signals of the test.
4) Denon AVR-2310: Too bright and "clinical". bright recording sound really tight-bright and fatiguing. Stereo-image undefinied. Bass lacked power at the lowest octaves. Weak cotrol.
5) Yamaha RX-V1900: Fresh and bright sound, maybe little too bright. Brightness "fakes revealingness", amp is not too revealing after all. Weak stereo-imaging.
6) Nad T 747: Best streo-imaging in the group. Little harsh sound in highs.

What I deducted from the review, the list would go like this if the measured attribute were only sound quality (sorry for little confusion):

1) Marantz & Pioneer (Marantz is better when it's in it's best = analog input and source/pure direct mode, Pioneer is better in digital inputs)
2) Onkyo
3) Nad
4) Yamaha
5) Denon (!)

This is in many case much dependable of the reviewers taste though... Subjective listening test are not absolute thruth.

Edit2: And by the way, I read from user's manual that both sr5004 and sr6004 consume max. 650 watts of power. If 6004 were to produce 70 watts more power (10 watts per channel) than 5004, this would also show in the power consumption. For the comparison sr5003 and sr6003 have max. power consumption of 600 watts, 50 watts lower than the new series. This would indicate that the new series is little more powerful than the the old series... I doubt that the extra 50 watts are converted to heat(, meaning that the new series would be less energy efficient than the old series).

Again, sry for x-tra long post...

Wow! The Pioneer kicked butt. Hmmm! I hadn't even thought of checking it out, when I was looking at receivers. Thanks for posting that review, Legis.

I doubt if they are less efficient. I am even suspicious that 5004 has more power than its advertised value since in Marantz Euroup it is rated at 100W per channel while 6004 is 110W:

http://www.marantz.com/new/index.cfm...vr&series=comp

Maybe they did not pass some kind of accreditations or something in united states so they forced to rate it 90W here in North America. Something to investigate

The HTPC is connected only by HDMI, video and 7.1 audio from an ATI HD4650.


L: -5.5 3.53m
C: -7.0 3.38m
R: -2.5 3.47m
SR: -7.5 1.52m
SBR: -6.0 1.43m
SBL: -6.5 1.25m
SL: -5.0 3.05m
SW: -12.0 4.17m

I have a big projector screen so the center speaker is placed above it. All the distances are pretty good except for the sub which is placed under the right front speaker (about 3.4m).

Yes, Pioneer was also good. Marantz turned too bright and "present" for reviewers taste when used digital inputs... While Pioneer had only best highs, Marantz had best bass control and power at the lowest frequencies, best video converters, best swing and "livest" sound, and only second best highs Marantz's 2-channel listening was also best and wholly in it's own category, because it sounded lot like those Marantz's high-end 2-channel amplifiers.

One should also consider that they did not tell anything about burn in in the review. I think no burn in perioid took place. Yes, my Marantz also sounded bit bright (in a hard way) in the first two to three days. Now after over one week this hardness is long way gone... I have used digital inputs all this time because my E-MU 1212m soundcard has not come yet. I listen alot of overly bright mixed techno and trance, I'd definitely know if the highs were fatiguing. Good adjective describing Marantz's highs would be something like "fairy dust sparkling"

Pioneer was the worst receiver in regrads of video convertes and multi channel RMS power (only 5 x 46 watts into 8 ohms). Stereo RMS power were good (2 x 135 watts into 8 ohms). Because the power of Pioneer is dropped so badly in multi ch, the reviewer said either it's power supply or amplifiers lack power. Pioneers signal to noise ratio is also 6dB lower than Marantz's (both in pure direct mode)...

Winston - how is the HDMI switching working on your latest unit?
The sound quality must be pretty decent for you to stick with this through 5 units...

I am a previous Denon owner. To me, that was bright. I almost needed a pair of sunglasses to listen to that thing. Whoa! And I especially found it's over use of the center channel to be HOT!

I'm getting my new HSU subwoofer today, so I'm really excited to see how everything mixes after I get that baby hooked up. It should be a fun day.. AND, it's my day off!

Winston I know that, but if 5004 has the same power supply as 5003, why it is listed 100W/ch in Marantz Euroup while 5003 has always been advertised as 90W/ch no matter what.

Either Marantz Euroup web site has advertised it false or there are differences between 5003s and 5004s power supplies as well. As I mentioned someone with better knowledge should investigate this.

So I read from you post. This interests me because I can't see this difference from anywhere from the receivers' data.

Hence I think this can also be an advertising trick and likely is, because:

1) This difference does not show at the Marantz's website when comparing 5004 and 6004. Both have "EL" power transformers (I think this is the synonym for power supply) Data is identical, except 6004 has tick on some "high quality components" which I think little ambiguous term.

2) Their max. power consumption is the same in both models. Beefier power supply would consume more power, and also the extra 10 watts per channel extra power would consume extra power. Power does not generate itself from "nothing".

3) And if power supply wants to be beefier, it HAS TO HAVE more rounds and total mass of copper wire and therefore it must be bigger in size and total mass. Both amps weight the same, so I don't see even that.

4) Power supplies look the same. They (Hifimaailmas's review) had a picture of 6004's interior and it's power supply looked 100% identical including size, placement, overall looks and the white sticker on it etc. (although i cannot read what it says on it).

So, everything this far speaks for the fact that the receivers'' power supplies are identical. The actual size and weight of the power supply is the most significant fact. Without extra mass and circumference it really can't be that different.

So maybe Marantz uses two different power supplies that look and weight the same but differ in some attribute somehow? We can also verify this by comparing the white sticker on the power supply. Maybe you or someone else who owns 6004 can confirm me what it says in the sticker on the power supply on your 6004? Use flashlight to see it without opening the receiver

On my 5004's power supply reads: (It's an european model, bought from Germany, so I would be best if someone from Europe with 6004 could report this, but also U.S models will do):

CLT5W034YE
230V
IIDY 9335

and it has a blue T-letter "logo" on the left of above information. The 230V WILL differ between US and European model. US has 110V (?) current in the elecricity network, so the power supply might have this info insted.

Once we have like two or three european or US numbers I think we can see wether the power supplys type can be deducted from the sticker or not, and if it can, we can call the case closed.

Even if the power supplies turn out to be different (at least differently labeled ), but both amps have same power output (like 5003 and 6003 have) there is no "real" difference.

Legis

Edit:

The power supplies are highly unlike the same between 03 and 04 series because series' max power consumption differs by 50 watts (600w in 03 series (both 5003 and 6003) vs. 650w in 04 series (both 5004 and 6004)). This cannot be unless the same power supply was not driven to it's max output in 03 series... Unless so, you can't take 650 watts out of the 600 watt power supply.

The same reason is why I think that the power supply in 5004 and 6004 are the same. Why the would you have the same max power consumption if the other power supply would allegedly be beefier?!?! Where does it show itself unless in the power output? In some spiritual what does not show in poweroutput? Come ooon... I'm sorry but this is not rocket science, the power of the power supply is how much it can output power in watts. This amount does also show itself in the max. power consumption ratings naturally.

Edit2: Oh, and also please do contribute your power supply's number, 5004 owners! Also 5003 and 6003 owners, feel free to contribute your number, so we can see if the power supply is the same or different in 03 and 04 series...

This is from the Manual:
HEIGHT OF THE SPEAKER UNITS
FRONT LEFT AND RIGHT SPEAKERS, AND A CENTER SPEAKER
"Align the tweeters and mid-range drivers on the three front speakers at the same height, as best as possible."

Does this help?

We are not speculating. I have linked the power rating of the 5003 and 6003, and in Hifimaailma's review they tested 6004's power output. All are all close to the same. Read my last posts.

Could you provide the number which is printed on the white sticker on the receiver's power supply, so we could compare them?

This request concerns all 5003, 6003, 5004 and 6004 owners. It tooks a minute to look there with a flashlight, write the number down (if one does not have exeptional close term memory) and report here...

The power supply is located at the left side of the amp(closing in from the front), it's a big "cube" like thing with lots of wires coming out. You can also locate it by heat. The amp's hottes spot is above the power supply



Of course they are obliged to say this if they promise 10 watts more than it's predecessor....

I've 5004 US version and from the top left, I see green boards (where the cord goes in). I also see aluminum like metals from left side but there is no sticker. Where exactly should I look?

Your research also ruled out my other theory that they might have been used 6003 old power supply on 5004.

I provide a picture when my camera's battery has recharged...

The power supply's center point is 5 inches from front panel and 3 inches from the left side, so it's 5 inches "behind" the source selector rotator knob. The power supply's cover is metallic or aluminum like you said. The sticker should be on top of it. Maybe your amp doesn't have it? I think you would have noticed it. Keep on lookin, it is clearly visible as the sticker is approx. 1,5 x 0,75 inches in size.

edit. if you see green boards, you have to go couple of inches towards the front of the amp.

Sry my English..

I found it thanks, it says:

CLT5W034YU
120V
HDY 9372

And I am pretty sure it is HDY not IIDY

Edit:
So the last letter of first line "U" is for United States as yours is "E" for Europe. So "CLT5W034Y" is the power supply model number in all countries for SR-5004. 120 V and 220 V is obvious and the last line is just the batch number I guess.

Thanks! I think so too. I think we have 5004 then settled. We have to wait for 5003/6003 and especially 6004 owners to contribute.

Great! We are leaning toward something here