Originally Posted by CR_Client
Bet I do.
I'll bet you $500 I do, and have for over a year. Wanna start taking bets on the purchase date, too? Here's a hint: enough research into my postings would reveal this information.
And yet, I don't complain about a lack of HDMI 1.4 compatibility, my remote works perfectly fine, and I couldn't care less about the OSD. I haven't used it since I first set the system up over a year ago, except for the occasional time or two that I have my iPod hooked up and my TV happens to be on.
The OSD now looks much nicer than it did only a few years ago, but, again, for something that's only used to set up the system, it's perfectly acceptable. I'd rather R&D spend time on the internal components and audio processing than spend gobs of time making the OSD look flashy and pretty.
Additional thoughts: I have been a Pio fanboy for years. After this 23 debacle I really did my homework in order to get what I wanted. I have never owned a Yamaha anything and so far I am very happy with it except it could use some more oomph on the top. As long as anyone looking at the 21 &23 realize you are really not going to do meaningful firmware updates (Not even the newer units IIANM) and you realize there is no pass through, and you are never going to do 3d, then you should be fine.
And, given Pioneer's stated philosophy, which they print in every one of their manuals, they care about audio quality first, and video "fluff" like OSDs third or fourth.
I will not take that bet and did not research you. For some reason I thought you were an SC owner.
And this post again, like the last one directed at me is pretty much spot on. I did my research, I got a fine AVR. It just never worked for the wife and I caught grief over it. So I had to hook things up in a manner that did not always let the 23 live up to its potential since it had no pass through and that was just not going to work for the WAF in the main TV room aka man cave.
IOT keep the 23 I asked for advice as to how some have worked around this. Nothing. Since these units are still selling, I thought I would post about the shortfalls they have VS what can be had today. It appears my frustration came through as whining so I need to reevaluate how I approach this. Not sure how I can point out shortfalls in the unit VS todays offerings and not whine.
I currently have a Yamaha 867 running now. Not sure I am going to keep it since it does not have the top end the 23 did, but sounds great right up to that point. It is stupid easy to use and the wife can do whatever she wants and even use the surround now via scene buttons that I set up. AVR not on? She can watch normally or change inputs with a single button without powering the receiver on. So yes, I knew the 23 would not do that and neither did others but it has been a major thorn in my side since the purchase that she could not use it. Pass through is a true Godsend for me.
Now, you have been a treasure trove of info here and I have learned a lot from your posts and insights. Like I said from the day I got the 23, I am not going to power on a power hungry AVR just to watch the news at 0500AM before going to work and wake everyone up.
So anyway, I edited my first response to your other post some hours later because I realized I was a bit POd. Now I just want to say that I have enjoyed my 23 but it is going to serve some other purpose now or be sold for the reasons I "whined" about. Most of the posting was to advise folks who are looking at these units about my observations. Seems somebody just bought a 21. I am sure others will be getting a newer unit for the same reasons as me and folks looking to buy the old ones will be looking for info. That is why I am posting so they know the limitations right up front.
As always, thanks for your input. You have pointed out the obvious to me on my choice of purchase. You can bet it won't happen again. I hope you enjoy your 23 for many years. I am very pleased with my new unit except for the power which tops out 15W less, I may return and upgrade for one of the 130W units. That OSD GUI is the chit.
Well gotta go, my OSD indicates there is a firmware update to do. Yep, AVRs are expensive processors today and like a computer, if you cannot update you have a dinosaur. BTW, the OSD on this Yamaha is not used just to set up the unit. It shows what signal is coming in, what sound channels are being fed, your internet connection info, what processing you are applying, the parametric equalizer, etc etc all on an overlay of the signal picture. Real easy to see and manipulate, sweet. Cheers!
Well, my first additional thoughts did not seem to post. I just wanted to say if you do not care about pass through and 3d, as well as the new 1.4 which is high speed until they change that because something else is higher speed, then one of these units will serve you well. Final thought, for the money, you may want to make sure any unit you buy can be easily updated via firmware. Yes I could have updated my 23 via non-factory supported means but did not. It was only going to fix a remote power on issue and not really anything else. Yeah Pioneer. Could not even admit the problem exists.