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*Official* Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23THX Owners Thread - Page 116

post #3451 of 3519
Yes, I was wondering if it is worth upgrading. Are there any other features that the SC-61 has that the VSX-21 does not have?
Not really interested in 3-d tv.
post #3452 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocat View Post

Yes, I was wondering if it is worth upgrading. Are there any other features that the SC-61 has that the VSX-21 does not have?
Not really interested in 3-d tv.

It's bigger better faster, but it also has some annoyances. I'm sure you can a product side-by-side to the technical stuff so I'll ignore those.

I really liked that it had "AirPlay" which means you can project your ipod/ipad into the receiver. That was one of the major draws for me. Sadly it turned out that it's only half the implementation. You can only project "audio" from the iPhone/iPad to the receiver. Video is ignored.
It has more HDMI ports, which I really needed. The bad part is that it introduced a 125ms sync into with my Mac Mini that drives my VoD at home --- sometimes.
It draws less power (My UPS has gone from having a 25% load all the time, to less than 5%, although that's mostly due to swapping out the TV the power dropped some more after switching the receiver too.
3D is cool to look at for about 20 minutes then it gets boring. I do like ESPN 3D at times, but I couldn't sit through an entire game watching it.
post #3453 of 3519
Hey all,

I wanted to see if anyone had suggestions for speakers for my VSX23THX. I picked it up about a year or so ago but have been busy with work and training and am only finally ready to get some speakers for this monster. I'm looking at a roughly $2000-$3000 budget. My room is roughly 25ft by 15 ft, enclosed on 3 of four sides like this: (note - the periods are just to keep the text spacing so ignore them. The bottom, right portion of the room opens into a hall way.)


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l................TV .......................................l
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l...........................................................l__________________________________
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I'd love to hear some suggestions as I'm not an AV geek by any means, but I love watching movies and really feeling like you are there. Secondary use would be games. I don't have anything right now worth keeping so this would be a ground up purchase.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have to offer.

Very respectfully,
Nezrel
post #3454 of 3519
Hi all --

I recently purchased a nearly new VSX-21TXH, and I love it. BUT -- I need to find out if I have an issue. I have a 7.1 speaker setup in my theater.

The issue is, I have NEVER ONCE seen the "back L/back R speaker icons" glowing, on the receiver, when playing Blu-ray content. I see the center, left, right, side left, side right, and LFE icons glowing, when watching Blu-ray movies, but never the back L and back R. I hear sound coming from them, but don't see the icons glowing. I figured maybe it was because my Blu-ray movies have been 5.1 sourced material, but yesterday I played a 7.1 Blu-ray, set the audio to 7.1 in the Blu-ray menu, and could hear sound from the back speakers, but was not seeing the back L or back R icons glowing. Can someone let me know if this is an issue? FWIW -- when I run MCACC, the back speakers are playing correctly, so it's not a speaker problem, or a problem where the receiver cannot send signal to my back speakers (and like I say, I can hear sounds coming through the back speakers). I'm wondering if I'm somehow not properly setting things up between my Blu-ray player and receiver such that the receiver is able to decode and play 7.1 material in a proper 7.1 surround mode. I've been running TXH mode, and if I'm not mistaken, the receiver chose "THX Select Plus" or something like that, when it was playing this 7.1-encoded Blu-ray. Do I need to run some other mode?

Thanks for any help -- I'm still in the beginning stages of trying to understand this unit!

Steve
post #3455 of 3519
Make sure surround back channel processing is on. Page 59 of the user manual.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-21TXH_OperatingInstructions0512.pdf

See if that helps!
post #3456 of 3519
cheezit73 -- OK, I'll check that. I am THINKING I set SBch to "auto," back when I set up the unit initially, but I will double-check that and report back.

By the way, is SBch "on" a better option than "auto," if playing 7.1 material? The manual seems to say something about auto being better, if I understood correctly, from the perspective that some 5.1 material would sound better if you did not force the SBch to "on," but let it instead remain in "auto" where the receiver could choose the proper playback mode for the 5.1 material. BUT -- I could be misunderstanding things, too. I'm still not totally clear on how all of this works, and what modes are "best," and all the processing that goes on to permit a soundtrack, HOWEVER it was encoded, to be decoded and then played through my array of speakers in the best-sounding manner. It's pretty complex, in my mind.

ANYWAY, it IS clear to me that I would NOT want SBch set to "off," if I want to hear 7.1 material, so I will make sure it isn't set that way. I guess "off' IS the default setting, but I'm thinking I changed it. I'll doublecheck...

Can you tell me, cheezit, WHEN you see your back L/back R icons glowing? Is it ONLY on 7.1 material, or do you see the icons lit up even when the RECEIVER is decoding and processing 5.1 material in a way that a signal is being sent to the back speakers (in addition to the side L/sideR)?

Thanks!

Steve
post #3457 of 3519
I will double check the icons, I am pretty sure if I am playing a 5.1 with SBch ON they all light up. But as far as the other settings, With it on Auto 5.1 will play as 5.1 and 7.1 as 7.1, with it on ON it will Up Mix 5.1 to 7.1, with it OFF only 5.1 will play even with a 7.1 one source. I leave mine on ON as I like everything being played in 7.1 using Dolby PLIIx it sounds great.
post #3458 of 3519
Gotcha, cheezit.

If you happen to notice your back L/back R icons on, please let me know.

In the mean time, what you are saying suggests that I might indeed have SBch OFF. I didn't check today, but I'll check it tomorrow...

Thanks,

Steve
post #3459 of 3519
So Mad at my self right now!!!! Moved my equipment around in my rack and subwoofer rca jack became intermittent. Called Pioneer service center and tech said probably broken solder joint and about $100.00 to fix. So I decided I can solder so i open this bad boy up and proceed to disassemble it which takes forever because the audio board is a layer down. I get in there and find yep a broken solder joint. I go and get my soldering iron and note to myself that the tip is corroded and it might be too high a wattage/////MISTAKE!!!! Long story short I tried to reflow the joint and ended up damaging the PCB trace. If I had just gone and bought a $10.00 lower powered iron I would have been good.
So luckily I was able to order a replacement Audio board from Pioneer for about 110.00 after tax and shipping. So here is hoping I dont have any trouble replacing it since I already have taken it apart once! Moral of the story? Be patient and take it to the tech. It would have cost me less $$$ and more importantly I would have not spent a whole day stressed out about my PIO being so wounded!!
post #3460 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

So Mad at my self right now!!!! Moved my equipment around in my rack and subwoofer rca jack became intermittent. Called Pioneer service center and tech said probably broken solder joint and about $100.00 to fix. So I decided I can solder so i open this bad boy up and proceed to disassemble it which takes forever because the audio board is a layer down. I get in there and find yep a broken solder joint. I go and get my soldering iron and note to myself that the tip is corroded and it might be too high a wattage/////MISTAKE!!!! Long story short I tried to reflow the joint and ended up damaging the PCB trace. If I had just gone and bought a $10.00 lower powered iron I would have been good.
So luckily I was able to order a replacement Audio board from Pioneer for about 110.00 after tax and shipping. So here is hoping I dont have any trouble replacing it since I already have taken it apart once! Moral of the story? Be patient and take it to the tech. It would have cost me less $$$ and more importantly I would have not spent a whole day stressed out about my PIO being so wounded!!

This problem might have avoided by unplugging cables before moving things around.
post #3461 of 3519
Actually I completely re organized my rack so I had removed all the connections. I believe the main issue to be partly the Monoprice cables I am using and Pioneer. The Monoprice cables are extremely tight on the RCA's and take a lot of force to put on and off, however I just recently bought a newer Denon as well and what is interesting is that the same exact cables are a lot easier to put on and off of the Denon...Weird.
post #3462 of 3519
So I thought I would experiment with changing the input signal using my remote. Manual says to select the "Receiver" button and then the "Signal Sel" or #4 button to cycle through Auto, Analog, Digital, HDMI or PCM. I've been on PCM for the life of this receiver and thought I would put it on something else just to test the indicator lights for piece of mind since PCM keeps a lot of the indicators from displaying.

Anyway, I change as instructed by the manual and it switches to Analog and is stuck there and now I have no sound whatsoever. It will not cycle through the input signals as the manual instructs. My display is now 96kHz STEREO with no sound.

How the hell do I fix this? This is exactly why I hate receivers and never change anything on them!
post #3463 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouBet View Post

So I thought I would experiment with changing the input signal using my remote. Manual says to select the "Receiver" button and then the "Signal Sel" or #4 button to cycle through Auto, Analog, Digital, HDMI or PCM. I've been on PCM for the life of this receiver and thought I would put it on something else just to test the indicator lights for piece of mind since PCM keeps a lot of the indicators from displaying.
Anyway, I change as instructed by the manual and it switches to Analog and is stuck there and now I have no sound whatsoever. It will not cycle through the input signals as the manual instructs. My display is now 96kHz STEREO with no sound.
How the hell do I fix this? This is exactly why I hate receivers and never change anything on them!

Did you try factory reset ?

1 Switch the receiver into standby.
2 While holding down ENTER on the front panel, press the STANDBY/ON button. The display shows RESET < NO >.
3 Select ‘RESET’ using PRESET +/–, then press ENTER on the front panel. The display shows RESET? OK.
4 Press ENTER to confirm. OK appears in the display to indicate that the receiver has been reset to the factory default settings.
post #3464 of 3519
I have not tried that and frankly scared to because I'm clueless with setting something like this up. Understanding receivers is essentially akin to reading Chinese for me but I guess I may have to try it.
post #3465 of 3519
Opened up the Home menu just to see if anything available in settings to move it off of Analog manually. There is not. However, upon exiting Home menu the sound returned. Great except everything is projecting in Stereo even on HD channels with 5.1. Took it off Auto Surround setting and manually put it on a multichannel source like Dolby Prologic II Movie and that fixes the surround. Very weird. It seems as if the Auto Surround option on the receiver is not reading the source correctly and cant discern what it is. Might just be a bug in the firmware.
post #3466 of 3519
I received my replacement audio board and successfully replaced my damaged one. I am happy to report that my AVR still works and I again have a working subwoofer output! here are some pictures.

The cover removed:


First you have to undo these connectors that connect the top board (Video) to the board below it (Audio) these are a pain to undo, there are three vertical interconnects to undo:



Here is the video board moved out of the way and you can see the audio board which needs to be replaced:


You have to remove a whole bunch of screws off the back:


With the audio board removed you can see further in to the component video board and below:


With the audio board out you have to remove the vertical connectors and then connect them to the new board:


Stopped taking pictures at this point but here it is all put back together:


Overall this was fairly complicated to take a part and put together. I have no problems building PC's but this is a different animal, everything is crammed so tightly together and delicate. Glad I was able to fix it myself though as i am sure it would have been quite a bit more to get it repaired!
post #3467 of 3519
Beginner question. I have had this receiver for over a year and more recently, I feel like the dialog is too low compared to the sound effects. Personally, I just turn it up and I am good to go. But my wife hates it. So, I am wondering whether I can manually turn up the volume on the center channel and whether that is even advisable. I have already gone through MCAAC process. I have matching front speakers so that should not be an issue.
post #3468 of 3519
One more thing. The issue is when playing bluray movies. And the dialog is low between action scenes, not during.
post #3469 of 3519
Sorry for the multi threads but I got another thought. I calibrated my receiver months back and haven't touched it since the speakers have not moved. Haven't checked recently but do setting say in the event receiver is unplugged? I ask because it feels like the issue of worse now than before.
post #3470 of 3519
The source (PC, etc) shouldn't matter so long as it provides unadulterated audio (no eq, etc).
post #3471 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by droopdog7 View Post

Sorry for the multi threads but I got another thought. I calibrated my receiver months back and haven't touched it since the speakers have not moved. Haven't checked recently but do setting say in the event receiver is unplugged? I ask because it feels like the issue of worse now than before.

For all your issues it sounds as though either your source is turned down or the level of the speakers is set too low, you can adjust in the advanced system setup if you're unhappy with any of the individual (center, etc) levels.
post #3472 of 3519
Audio question here. I have an airport express wired into a RCA jack input. I listen to pandora or iTunes via wifi thorough the airport express but can't get it to play the sub. Sub is a BIC F12. How do I trouble shoot this?

I use the RCA output because I have to so I can listen this way in zone 2 outside. (Has to be analog). Would really not like to not have to switch from analog to RCA when choosing between inside or outside. But sound like this may be only option other than getting another aiport express and having one for inside and one for outside.
Edited by colleyvillesoon - 2/17/13 at 7:21am
post #3473 of 3519
HDMI Audio problem! Help... I'm at my wits end... After some audio rack re-configuring, I cannot get my VSX-21TXH to recognize audio through HDMI on any HDMI input from BD-52 BluRay to Samsung monitor/TV. I notice that none of the L/C/R/SR/SL PCM panel indicators will come on in any combination.

Here's been my diagnostic process:

  • Verified BD player HDMI direct to TV/Display works correcty, both sound/audio
  • Connected by HDMI through VXS21 to TV/Display get only video; no audio in either "AMP" or "Through" mode from either Display or receiver on any HDMI input, including BD.
  • Tried both HDMI inputs on Samsung TV/monitor
  • Attempted many combinations of power up/down among different components
  • No difference KURO on or off
  • No difference using various HDMI audio encoding choices on source (resample, PCM, bitstream, etc.)
  • Audio select (#4) has no action/effect using HDMI input
  • Audio fine from other source using coaxial digital, so audio section of receiver fine

This used to work with no problems. Have I made some stupid setup/config error? About to try factory reset. Any other ideas? Thanks!
post #3474 of 3519
I don't have this receiver but in general IF the PCM (signal) / speaker indicators are not on, that indicates that you are NOT sending in PCM... huh??? check your output settings on the source unit. Further, somewhere there should be an "auto" setting that allows the receiver to "smart choose" the right decoder.
post #3475 of 3519
Good ideas! I did attempting forcing the source unit to encode PCM in the HDMI, but to no avail... the receiver still doesn't recognize it. For this Pioneer Rcvr, the "auto" audio select isn't a choice when you select a primary input as one of the HDMI jacks. The only options I found were to pick an input channel other than "HDMIx" and assign this input to take its video from one of the HDMI jacks and its audio from a different (analog/optical/coax) input. i haven't tried that but understand that some of the "hi-def" audio formats aren't compatible with these older audio only transmission schemes. Thanks again for your suggestions!
post #3476 of 3519
I think you need to look at the user manual closer. Perhaps, a picture of the "face plate" display showing all the info it is telling you might help ... either that or a "shot" of the video display if the receiver OSD shows up there with a "status screen"... might make it easier.

A quick look at the manual, suggests an "auto" selection for coding selection as being used when selection of "receiver" followed by selection of "auto/alc/stream direct"... maybe you have these selected wrong for the given source which is... ???? again check what the source is outputting... normally, for bluray at least, most would NOT select a pcm output but bitstream
Edited by budwich - 3/6/13 at 9:57pm
post #3477 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvlenthe View Post

Good ideas! I did attempting forcing the source unit to encode PCM in the HDMI, but to no avail... the receiver still doesn't recognize it. For this Pioneer Rcvr, the "auto" audio select isn't a choice when you select a primary input as one of the HDMI jacks. The only options I found were to pick an input channel other than "HDMIx" and assign this input to take its video from one of the HDMI jacks and its audio from a different (analog/optical/coax) input. i haven't tried that but understand that some of the "hi-def" audio formats aren't compatible with these older audio only transmission schemes. Thanks again for your suggestions!

OK... how about when you select an input that has an HDMI input connection, from the manual I can see that you have a selection of "auto" which selects an "order of priority" or you select / set a "specific" selection..... make sure the setting is correct. Further what does the status on your from panel actually "think" it has selected... it should tell you that.
post #3478 of 3519
Still no luck... even after I tried factory reset just to get "clean". When selecting an HDMI input, the audio is fixed to be sourced from HDMI. Right now, the only way I'm getting audio is using the coax digital audio input. Curiously, when I use the status function all get when running the coax input in is "PCM" and "stereo". The manual says the display should sequence through
Input Source

Sampling Frequency

Surround Back channel Processing

MCACC preset

ZONE 2 input

KURO LINK

I'm not seeing this. Anyone else ever encounter this issue?
post #3479 of 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvlenthe View Post

Still no luck... even after I tried factory reset just to get "clean". When selecting an HDMI input, the audio is fixed to be sourced from HDMI. Right now, the only way I'm getting audio is using the coax digital audio input. Curiously, when I use the status function all get when running the coax input in is "PCM" and "stereo". The manual says the display should sequence through
Input Source

Sampling Frequency

Surround Back channel Processing

MCACC preset

ZONE 2 input

KURO LINK

I'm not seeing this. Anyone else ever encounter this issue?

UPDATE - Well, a little progress... First the "STATUS" report IS working. The sequence isn't stepped by button push as I thought.. It goes throught at its own SLOW pace, so that IS working.

I've experimented as follows:
BD52FD (BluRay) to VSX-21TXH into VIDEO1, selecting HDMI 1 and OPT 2 as inputs using both HDMI and toslink cables. BD52FD outputting BITSTREAM on both HDMI and OPTICAL outputs
When selecting audio source (#4 on remote) sound when selecting DIGITAL or PCM is good. I get varying frequencies depending on source (DVD, CD, SACD)
Interestingly, with the audio source set to AUTO the VSX-21TXH gets very confused, apparently attempting to cycle between the two sources as alternating audio and silence. Selecting HDMI as the audio input continues to result in silence.

Does this spark any thoughts? Thanks!
post #3480 of 3519
a little bit more info... When selecting HDMI input whilei playing a CD, the status shows PCM - 48khz, but there is no sound at all. Switching to the optical input, stereo sound is fine and shows PCM at 44.1khz. Various permuations of kuro link (HDMI control) on/off, selecting bitstream vs pcm in the audio portio of the hdmi source seem to have no effect....
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