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Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 65

post #1921 of 3153
Thanks dwk123. I should be in for about only $15 for the relay solution, so as long as it's within spec I will give that a try first.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1922 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Crash View Post

Though I do like warmth, I always find myself drawn towards the system which separates different elements of the audio the best (this just happened to me when picking speakers for my bedroom too).

I prefer the Denon/Marantz/Onkyo in my den. I only run 2.0 in there and the warmth and or presence works rather nicely. Vocals don't have any harshness either. Now in my dedicated room I have four powered subs so there is plenty of warmth and presence so Yahama and Pioneer (lack of) is fine. This is where I'm trying out the R-972 as its quirks shouldn't matter at all. If you want elements separated I think you'll really like the R-972. I know the doorbell on my test track sounded like it was all by itself... if that makes any sense. smile.gif And of course all amps/receivers sound the same so please don't....
post #1923 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

I tired the master power switch and the hum goes away, so I think it is related to the pre-outs only when in standby. I know I could continue using that switch, but I want to make this wife friendly (on/off with a single remote button press). I'd like to trigger the 120VAC supply to the amp via a relay. I found a relay which should be adequate for the load (10 Amp 120VAC load) and the current draw on the coil is 75mA. The R-972 manual states it can supply 100mA of current, so I think this relay will work. Any reason I should think otherwise?

That will work. In addition to what dwk123 recommends, you can look at the Niles AC-3. It has three outlets instead of one: two are switched (12v trigger) and one is always hot which is nice (you can plug your receiver into that one for example). It does not have a jack plug, but simply take your trigger cable and cut one end and use the bare wire into the trigger inputs.

I picked up two AC-3s on eBay recently for cheap (better value than that Russound). I'm sure more will turn up. If not, I may only need one, really, in which case you could have the other one.

YA
post #1924 of 3153
As a follow up to my post about triggers... The Sherwood user manual say to use a STEREO plug and not a mono one for the trigger. Has anyone checked which of the three wires in a stereo plug gets turned on (if not, I'll get my multimeter out smile.gif). Has anyone tried a mono plug? I'd be surprised if it worked given how Sherwood specifically say (page 15 of the manual): "When making DC TRIGGER connection, you should use the stereo mini cord, not a mono mini cord." At the same time I wonder why make this so different than other receivers? (And as rant, only ONE trigger? Ugh!)
post #1925 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Well I got a dose of bad twice. I purchased a 972 back Feb this year for use in my girlfriend's theater. On that unit only 1 hdmi input works and not the front USB input but it sounded great and otherwise worked fine with the usual known hiccups. Based on the sound of the first unit I purchased one at the recent black Friday price to see how it might fare against my 4311. This unit came with a dead remote, no sound from any hdmi input nor the front USB input and only sound from the tuner. Now as of today the first unit just randomly shut off, hadn't been longer than an hour just watching TV and wasn't hot to the touch. I put on The Dark Knight rises at -17 volume and it shut off less than a min in and did so again another 5 times. I switched outlets with no remedy. Now I have 2 paper weights...annoyed.

WOW! That sucks! Never heard of those issues before.
post #1926 of 3153
...sort of Stereo paper weights then, aren't they.
This seems to be a rather unfamiliar usage, but if no other seems to be left biggrin.gif
Edited by gurkey - 12/5/12 at 5:55am
post #1927 of 3153
I went through this with onkyo. I had to send off my 1007 due to failed hdmi board then it came back and something else wasn't working. Then with a 3009 I had one that wasn't responding to the remote sent it back, later purchased another that didn't work thru the pre outs. Just to put the icing on, I came home last night and my Sony bd790 would only play CDs not blu rays. I turned to my ps3 and the battery in the remote needed to be charged. I just wanted to watch a little Batman...ugh.
post #1928 of 3153
Just a note for us Black Friday generation of users. As I saw posted earlier I had to do a factory reset in order for the Optimizer to work properly. I had run it previously with out issue however yesterday it was reporting all kinds of wild numbers. Did a reset and the numbers were back to reality. Not sure why as the only thing I did of significance was install the +6 bass boost. I reran it as I raised my Front and Side speakers of which the 3D remapping used nicely to raise the center channel (vocals). Really helped and overall placed the sound more on the level of the screen itself... as before it was kind of floating underneath.
post #1929 of 3153
Am I going to miss Dynamic EQ if I get the Sherwood? I actually really like its effect at night and as I am moving my surrounds into the ceiling the loss of boost might be even more noticeable. But I read a lot about the fantastic enveloping sound and very clear dialogues... Is that true even at -25 dB or lower? That really worries me, and I am not sure I want to find out through an eventual $90 of return shipping smile.gif

Also how wide is the sweet spot? How does the system sound for music from the sides? And for movies, we watch from a chair and couch a few feet away from each other...

I have a bit of angst ordering a 3-year old receiver with limited sources and integration compared to the Denon 3312, but if the sound quality is much better it should be a no brainer. I can however do some supplementation with an HDMI switch; as it seems that everybody agrees that the remote sucks, I'll use something like Roomie and a GC-100 will give me plenty of integration options then. Placing this monster somewhere discreet will be tough though (the 3312 barely fits inside my AV cabinet). Has anybody gotten Roomie Remote to control this?

.
Edited by Dr. Crash - 12/5/12 at 11:25am
post #1930 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Crash View Post

Am I going to miss Dynamic EQ if I get the Sherwood? I actually really like its effect at night and as I am moving my surrounds into the ceiling the loss of boost might be even more noticeable. But I read a lot about the fantastic enveloping sound and very clear dialogues... Is that true even at -25 dB or lower? That really worries me, and I am not sure I want to find out through an eventual $90 of return shipping smile.gif

My take is you couldn't give me the R-972 for my den. From the time it takes to lock on a source, lack of networking (including storing calibration settings), lack of scaling, the remote (although I wouldn't use it anyway), lack of Dynamic EQ and the list goes on and on. Now in my dedicated room none of those matter and it brings 3D remapping which no one else offers. And to a large degree it works. So the opposite is looking to be true in there... I wouldn't want to use anything else. Even at low volumes the sound stage is enhanced however for more casual viewing/listening I wouldn't put up with all of the disadvantages.
post #1931 of 3153
I am living with the quirks for now. I just sold my Emotiva UMC-1 which the R972 replaces. The 5 or so second wait to lock on audio is a little annoying, but I am putting up with it. I do not use the video in the R972 except to drive a monitor in my equipment room for setup. My main video display, a projector, is fed straight from a video processor (Radiance XD, and all sources to go that first). All this was an attempt to have the R972 do Trinnov and just about nothing else.

I am, however, looking forward to getting a Emotiva XMC-1 with TacT and comparing the two. If the TacT seems better for me in the home theater, the R972 will move to another room for audio only use.

I really, really wish this tech was available with a more recent version and more controls in an up to date pre/pro and not cost the same as a nicely equipped vehicle.
post #1932 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Crash View Post

Am I going to miss Dynamic EQ if I get the Sherwood?.

Probably, yes. Dolby Volume is one of the reasons why I'm using an Anthem MRX rather than my R-972 in my main system.
post #1933 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

My take is you couldn't give me the R-972 for my den. From the time it takes to lock on a source, lack of networking (including storing calibration settings), lack of scaling, the remote (although I wouldn't use it anyway), lack of Dynamic EQ and the list goes on and on. Now in my dedicated room none of those matter and it brings 3D remapping which no one else offers.

My setup is reasonably simple. I have two main pieces of equipment: a Mac mini and an Xbox. I may add a Bluetooth receiver for my son too and get a BD player back. The Mac mini will be set up as two sources: HDMI for movies/AirPlay mirror, and optical for music (iTunes, AirPlay, Internet radio if I want... maybe EyeTV; anything). I do not need video scaling I think. So I expect some delay switching between the sources... 80% of the time I play music via iTunes. The rest of the time, kids use the Xbox either with the Xbox sound or with a wireless headset while I listen to music. They are already complaining, err, used to the re-synchronization on the Denon when I want to listen to music (because we switch sources and the Denon and my projector re-sync HDMI). Of course the Denon is ~ 1 second, not 4-5 but that would be my delay in audio mostly...

I also can't figure out what the story about 3D support is... AC4L says HDMI 1.4, some people here say it's not really 1.4 and 3D is only passed in compromised resolutions? Of course the manual is silent since that was a firmware update. 3D is not that important though but we do have a 3D projector and watch a 3D movie once in a blue moon. Movies stored on the Mac are in side by side which should work just fine, but what about true resolution 3D from a BD player?

My room (link to pics) is pretty open, so I was wondering if the 3D remapping and wide sweet spot of Trinnov would be an advantage there. What do you think? We sit on the yellow chair and couch visible in the pictures. Surrounds will be in ceiling. I'll have LCR and sub in the room as standalones, with the LR around the screen and the C below. Because of all the differences in height I was hoping 3D remapping would help (though I have read about how some didn't have success lifting up their center channel).

I'd wire the system like this, and I like that unlike the Denon, the Sherwood would allow me to have 7.1 for movies someday while sharing two amps with my kitchen.



So in short, I really would love a chance to have what many here call the very best sound, but I will have only one AVR and one room... We live in a standalone home so volume is only an issue as far as my taste not being into loud listening.


Edit: I know it's Sherwood Newcastle... Sorry, brain wires got crossed when I did that diagram.

.
Edited by Dr. Crash - 12/5/12 at 1:57pm
post #1934 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

I am, however, looking forward to getting a Emotiva XMC-1 with TacT and comparing the two. If the TacT seems better for me in the home theater, the R972 will move to another room for audio only use.
I really, really wish this tech was available with a more recent version and more controls in an up to date pre/pro and not cost the same as a nicely equipped vehicle.
I would recommend you do a search on Tact in the $20K forum. There are some serious considerations regarding going down that path. There appears to be no shortage of bad experiences regarding the product and the support. Forum members such as Amir (who has a connection with the industry) were left with nothing more than expensive door stops after the company failed to support them.
post #1935 of 3153
Made some headway today regarding my down units. I talked with Sherwood and they said to send to them the unit I bought in for repair with approx a 3 day turn around. The one purchased most recently at A4L is able to be sent to them to be swapped out. I just hope they don't try to stick me with the bill shipping it to them.
post #1936 of 3153
Anybody? Do you think the Sherwood would work there? How about 3D support? (Not tat important—we are fine with SBS—but I am curious.)
post #1937 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

I would recommend you do a search on Tact in the $20K forum. There are some serious considerations regarding going down that path. There appears to be no shortage of bad experiences regarding the product and the support. Forum members such as Amir (who has a connection with the industry) were left with nothing more than expensive door stops after the company failed to support them.

Do you have a link to threads or posts on the issues with TacT?

Bill
post #1938 of 3153
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1366849/datasat-rs20i-beta-test-and-comparison-with-ada-rhapsody-trinnov-teq-12/900#post_22350896

I am hopeful the support issue will not be the same (or to that degree at least) with Emotiva. Let's hope TacT's involvement in the XMC is for the room correction technology only, and rest is left to Emotiva (which I admit has a rocky past with processors, but I am hopeful the newest gen are much better).
post #1939 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Do you have a link to threads or posts on the issues with TacT?
As I suggested in my post, do a search in the $20K forum.

Edit: amt provided a link to one of the many posts.
post #1940 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1366849/datasat-rs20i-beta-test-and-comparison-with-ada-rhapsody-trinnov-teq-12/900#post_22350896
I am hopeful the support issue will not be the same (or to that degree at least) with Emotiva. Let's hope TacT's involvement in the XMC is for the room correction technology only, and rest is left to Emotiva (which I admit has a rocky past with processors, but I am hopeful the newest gen are much better).

amt,

Thanks for posting that link.smile.gif! I just read the two posts in that link which was enough to cause concern for the TacT implementation in the XMC-1. If Boz' attitude was like that for customers that spent $10k and up I wonder how his relationship with Emotiva will be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

As I suggested in my post, do a search in the $20K forum.
Edit: amt provided a link to one of the many posts.

I did that and my search did not lead me to the post in the link that amt was kind enough to post.

Bill
post #1941 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

I just hope they don't try to stick me with the bill shipping it to them.

Most repair services usually do,but let's hope in your case they don't;).
post #1942 of 3153
Bill, although Emotiva has some challenges in the past, their customer service has always been quite good. I am banking on that for the XMC-1. Since this is the R972 thread, this will be my last post about the XMC-1. Once I do get one with TacT, I'll post comparisons about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435060/rew-measurements-for-room-correction-systems-ypao-arc-audyssey-etc
post #1943 of 3153
To close out my take on the R-972 (although I haven't used it to any extent smile.gif) I'll say this...

I ended up raising my Fronts 15" (and sides as well - $26 along with 16 cuts at Home Depot - he didn't charge for the cuts so pass on the goodwill smile.gif) which gave the Optimizer more opportunity to lift my vocals via the 3D remapping. Before I raised them I'm guessing it was remapping 20% to the Fronts and now it sounds roughly 50/50. The Fronts are about as loud as the center. The end result is the vocals are no longer recognizable as coming from below the screen as they were with every other receiver I used in the room. That's the #1 reason I gave it a try and I'll call it a success. It does what others couldn't... which is exactly what I needed in the room. Overall the sound is great and very distinctive although I think the low-end is a little light even with the +6 boost. Which is fine in this room as it has plenty of presence.

My first unit was defective which was easily swapped via A4L and the second (as well as the first) had a minor remote issue and Sherwood was nice enough to ship me a replacement remote. You can see the relative position of the speakers if one is considering doing such in the image. Ignore the colors as the back wall is black and you can't even see the trim (it's not white) when watching a movie.



Edited by Charles R - 12/12/12 at 12:31pm
post #1944 of 3153
Chales...if you need more bass, just turn the gain up on the subwoofer. That would be doing effectively the same thing as the boost file.
post #1945 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Chales...if you need more bass, just turn the gain up on the subwoofer. That would be doing effectively the same thing as the boost file.

True! Although my Fronts have dual subs (used for .1) level matched and I'm sure I would never match them via their knob. smile.gif I guess I could unplug one swapping back and forth using test tones as long as I knew where I started. The low-end doesn't sound weak or missing just not the rumble other receivers have produced. I'm not a bass nut... and I'm sure my wife appreciates it as is. I have been disturbed many a nights engulfed in a move by my wife saying the bass woke her up ... total opposite end of the house on another floor. smile.gif
post #1946 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

True! Although my Fronts have dual subs (used for .1) level matched and I'm sure I would never match them via their knob. smile.gif I guess I could unplug one swapping back and forth using test tones as long as I knew where I started. The low-end doesn't sound weak or missing just not the rumble other receivers have produced. I'm not a bass nut... and I'm sure my wife appreciates it as is. I have been disturbed many a nights engulfed in a move by my wife saying the bass woke her up ... total opposite end of the house on another floor. smile.gif
Got it.

I actually found the +6 file a bit too strong, so I turned down the gain on the sub a bit.
post #1947 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

The R-972 delivers about 450W RMS, total, into 8 ohms. For most this is sufficient and no outboard amplifier is required. If you have 4 ohms speakers and especially if their impedance drops significantly below 4 ohms, I think adding the A-965 would be worthwhile. The A-965 delivers roughly 3 times the power of the R-972 into 4 ohms and even more if the impedance falls below 4.
Jeff

I ended up finding an A965 for $540 shipped and couldn't pass it up. That brought me to just over $900 for a very formidable combo. Love the A965 as it has an extremely quiet noise floor and headroom to spare.

I got my R972 back from Sherwood and they fixed a cracked HDMI 1 board. Big Kudos to Eugene and the gang at Sherwood and their top notch customer service! After spending a couple of days tweaking settings I am very impressed with the R972. I found Trinnov set to flat, 3d remap and music sounded the best for most inputs. I applied the +6db boost and everything blends together very well. I am hearing details I never heard with the MCACC setup in my Pioneer.

The first time I ran Trinnov it didn't properly perform 3d remap as vocals were coming mainly from the left front speaker. After angling the mike downward towards the center channel on my second try it nailed it.

I was surprised how well all my devices are playing together. I have the Receiver, Amp, 3D Bluray player , SACD/DVDAudio player, Fios box and Computer all running through a DVDO Edge and Darbee to my 3D TV. Everything is working properly and the one Edge remote handles all functions. It is nice to see that this product, although not perfect, gets most things right. Sure I wished they didn't use the Cirrus chip so we wouldn't have to deal with the delayed sound. I also wish the multi channel analogs could have Trinnov applied to them but overall I can deal with those shortcomings.
post #1948 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

Sure I wished they didn't use the Cirrus chip so we wouldn't have to deal with the delayed sound. I also wish the multi channel analogs could have Trinnov applied to them but overall I can deal with those shortcomings.

There is no Cirrus chip in the R-972. A TI-DA710 does initial decoding and bass management. Trinnov runs on a dedicated TI-DA708. The delay is the result of finding the best possible compromise that did not result in any untoward sound blasts or noise bursts and not to the choice of processor chips.

Jeff
post #1949 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

There is no Cirrus chip in the R-972. A TI-DA710 does initial decoding and bass management. Trinnov runs on a dedicated TI-DA708. The delay is the result of finding the best possible compromise that did not result in any untoward sound blasts or noise bursts and not to the choice of processor chips.
Jeff

It is unfortunate that Sherwood did not come up with a FW/DSP update to correct the audio delay issue. I owned an Onkyo 805 that when I bought it had an audio delay issue when audio formats were changed. Onkyo eventually offered a FW/DSP update that corrected the audio delay issue.

Bill
post #1950 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

There is no Cirrus chip in the R-972. A TI-DA710 does initial decoding and bass management. Trinnov runs on a dedicated TI-DA708. The delay is the result of finding the best possible compromise that did not result in any untoward sound blasts or noise bursts and not to the choice of processor chips.
Jeff

Thanks for the clarification. They only other receiver I owned that had a delay was a Harman Kardon AVR7200 and it had a Cirrus chip. I believe other Cirrus chip based devices also have the delay. I didn't realize the delay in the R972 was due to implementation of the TI-DA710. I got used to it with the HK and I will get used to it now.
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