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Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 77

post #2281 of 3156
wooo hooo! 39 runs through the set up and I now have 2 "good" readings to play with. I now plan on adding the bass file but NOT doing a factory reset after that as I think it will wipe it out. I will see if I can audibly tell a difference. Don't have any good measuring tools. Hmmmm, Now that I think about it I wonder if the test tones would be affected as well. Going down with my rat shack meter and do a before and after..
back with updates after my drinking binge...

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2282 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

I now plan on adding the bass file but NOT doing a factory reset after that as I think it will wipe it out. I will see if I can audibly tell a difference.

 

Somewhere in the thread there is info about how to check via the display if the +6 boost has been applied. I could tell the difference with my test material... chapter 8 of Crank... it was easy to spot.

post #2283 of 3156
I believe this is the procedure to check for the applied boost.

To check firmware, in Standby mode, press DISPLAY and ENTER/MEMO button on the unit together.
Turn the multi control knob to the right. FW, DSP FLASH, etc will be displayed.

DSP FLASH 090318/991119.
If you see 391119, it means that +6dB is applied. If it shows 691119, it means that +3dB is applied.
post #2284 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

I believe this is the procedure to check for the applied boost.

To check firmware, in Standby mode, press DISPLAY and ENTER/MEMO button on the unit together.
Turn the multi control knob to the right. FW, DSP FLASH, etc will be displayed.

DSP FLASH 090318/991119.
If you see 391119, it means that +6dB is applied. If it shows 691119, it means that +3dB is applied.

Thanks very much for that tip! I will go check tomorrow. I just finished up watching 6 episodes of Entourage and really really like how the sound field just envelopes you... Now I really wish I would have bought a couple of these extra's for friends that I know would appreciate them as I am..
post #2285 of 3156
as well all know there are a fe quirks with this thing, but holy hell, waiting for the HDMI to finish handshaking after a resolution change is PAINFUL! I could have went and took a shower and came back.... :-)
post #2286 of 3156
Hello fellow masochists. I got my three positions calibrated for the SB, FH, and FW speaker positions and the +6 bass boost. Time for bed this thing will wear you out. wink.gif
post #2287 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

as well all know there are a fe quirks with this thing, but holy hell, waiting for the HDMI to finish handshaking after a resolution change is PAINFUL! I could have went and took a shower and came back.... :-)

Just keep thinking this every time it happens.

Spend $13,000 for a Trinnov unit.

or

Wait 6 seconds.

I feel better every time afterwards.
post #2288 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just keep thinking this every time it happens.

Spend $13,000 for a Trinnov unit.

or

Wait 6 seconds.

I feel better every time afterwards.

6 seconds???!!! I will take that deal. On my Dune player on my Entourage rips to my hard drive it was taking well over a minute, and then on the second disc, I had to switch inputs and go back to that input for it to stick. But once it is locked on, I had no issues...
post #2289 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

Thanks very much for that tip! I will go check tomorrow. I just finished up watching 6 episodes of Entourage and really really like how the sound field just envelopes you... Now I really wish I would have bought a couple of these extra's for friends that I know would appreciate them as I am..
I wasn't the one that originally posted it someone else did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just keep thinking this every time it happens.

Spend $13,000 for a Trinnov unit.

or

Wait 6 seconds.

I feel better every time afterwards.

Well at least with the Trinnov MC unit HDMI handshaking delay is a non-isssue.It doesn't support HDMI since there is no need for it in the studio environment.biggrin.gif
post #2290 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

Well at least with the Trinnov MC unit HDMI handshaking delay is a non-isssue.It doesn't support HDMI since there is no need for it in the studio environment.biggrin.gif

Nor in the home environment if you use analog i/o.
post #2291 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Nor in the home environment if you use analog i/o.

True,but most baulk at using any kind of analog connection these days even when using high quality conversion. Analog is just a bad term to use in today's 'digital' marketing era,even though much of the audio production world uses analog equipment and connections on a regular basis.wink.gif
post #2292 of 3156

I guess A4L has hit a dry spell... they are now offering free shipping (at the same price). Not quite the Black Friday special but getting close if you don't want the end caps... although they are now $50. I think we should have a pool... when will they sell out (116 left) and what's the lowest and ending price!

post #2293 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I guess A4L has hit a dry spell... they are now offering free shipping (at the same price). Not quite the Black Friday special but getting close if you don't want the end caps... although they are now $50. I think we should have a pool... when will they sell out (116 left) and what's the lowest and ending price!

Even though the 30 day wait was too long, at $299 the 1saleaday deal was outstanding. Since it happened, it makes people want to wait and see if it would hit that price again.

Despite its age, the fact that it works with 3D and all standard sound formats means it is just as capable as a newly released unit in performance. Its the best $299 pre-pro audio deal ever.
post #2294 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post


Even though the 30 day wait was too long, at $299 the 1saleaday deal was outstanding. Since it happened, it makes people want to wait and see if it would hit that price again.

Despite its age, the fact that it works with 3D and all standard sound formats means it is just as capable as a newly released unit in performance.

 

I tend to disagree. I received a defective unit form 1SaleADay although they handled it professionally. I got somewhat lucky to find the defect early on and based on my usage habits I could very easily ended up with a brick. Short story I think the 3-year warranty is worth the difference. Plus, cosmetically my unit was nice but not nearly as nice as the new units I received... also defective in one way or another.

 

Performance is hard to define. For me the only selling point was the 3D remapping (for my center channel). Since going back to another receiver I have over shot the center (aiming it over my head a few feet) and the results are better than what the 3D remapping accomplished. It lost more directionality... now perhaps the R-972 would even top that with it re-aimed but it's a mute point at this time. For me having dual HDMI outputs (one for a small monitor) and other features trumps its performance. Even more so when after listening to my test material I prefer the Marantz SR6007. More overall presence and the background track pops a little more.

 

If it fits your needs there is no doubt $300 is beyond a bargain. I wrestled the (NIB) Marantz SR6007 for $684 and consider it even a bigger bargain. :) I do like the old schoolness of the receiver and if it drops (enough) I'll pick up another unit just for the fun of it (why I keep an eye out).

post #2295 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just keep thinking this every time it happens.

Spend $13,000 for a Trinnov unit.

or

Wait 6 seconds.

I feel better every time afterwards.
Not that simple.

That MC unit is adjustable, unlike our R972s. They have a graphical PC interface to see what you are doing, make adjustments to virtual locations, adjust channel levels and target curves, and save configurations......and has updateable firmware (currrently supported).

That still may not justify the $13K...but let's be clear that what we have in the R972 is a strip down version of the software from 3-4 years ago....it's not even a stripped down version of the current version of Trinnov.

That said...I love my R972, but I know it is by far not an MC unit.
post #2296 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I tend to disagree. I received a defective unit form 1SaleADay although they handled it professionally. I got somewhat lucky to find the defect early on and based on my usage habits I could very easily ended up with a brick. Short story I think the 3-year warranty is worth the difference. Plus, cosmetically my unit was nice but not nearly as nice as the new units I received... also defective in one way or another.

Performance is hard to define. For me the only selling point was the 3D remapping (for my center channel). Since going back to another receiver I have over shot the center (aiming it over my head a few feet) and the results are better than what the 3D remapping accomplished. It lost more directionality... now perhaps the R-972 would even top that with it re-aimed but it's a mute point at this time. For me having dual HDMI outputs (one for a small monitor) and other features trumps its performance. Even more so when after listening to my test material I prefer the Marantz SR6007. More overall presence and the background track pops a little more.

If it fits your needs there is no doubt $300 is beyond a bargain. I wrestled the (NIB) Marantz SR6007 for $684 and consider it even a bigger bargain. smile.gif I do like the old schoolness of the receiver and if it drops (enough) I'll pick up another unit just for the fun of it (why I keep an eye out).
Well of course you disagreee! You got a bad unit! biggrin.gif (what was your issue on yours?)
If you were like me and received what appeared to be a brand new unit with a sticker over the outer box that said b-stock I venture to say you might agree about it being a deal! There is no way I would pay over double for a three year warranty, but that;s just me. While I liked dual hdmi outputs on my last Denon I would not consider that to "trump performance" of the 972. I also came from a Denon AVR-a100 which is no slouch in the sound department either..
Not being able to move my inwall speakers, 3D remapping is where it is at for me on this thing. It really does make a difference..
post #2297 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by comicguy View Post


Well of course you disagreee!

 

  • Actually, I had three units. Two new and one used. Details have already been posted.
  • Actually, I said they were a deal.
  • The trump was preferring the sound of the other receiver.

 

This receiver has followed the typical close-out, end of line, old school, etc path. Once available for next to nothing it becomes the best thing since sliced bread. Sure it's a bargain in some cases... in many others not so much. Perhaps with your miss configured room it helps more than most. Fortunately, I only have one miss configured speaker (which I figured out) so I had no need for it.

post #2298 of 3156
The 6007 must be nothing like the 6006 cause the 6006 is not a bargain at $299. I was happy to pay $35 shipping to be rid of it. Marantz has left the building compared to their glorious past. To each their own but you lost me comparing to non comparable units.
post #2299 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I guess A4L has hit a dry spell... they are now offering free shipping (at the same price). Not quite the Black Friday special but getting close if you don't want the end caps... although they are now $50. I think we should have a pool... when will they sell out (116 left) and what's the lowest and ending price!

I would guess that they will eventually be selling these for even less.When I returned the first unit I had back to A4L,the unit was only insured for $100.If that happened to be about what they paid for these units then they stand to still make a profit on them even at a lower selling price.
post #2300 of 3156
In reference to the the Trinnov MC unit that was available back in 2007,it was around $13,000 MSRP back then.I don't think they are selling for that much now,just like the R-972 doesn't sell for $1800 MSRP today and I don't think you could even compare the R-972 to the current MC Pro version.biggrin.gif
post #2301 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post


I would guess that they will eventually be selling these for even less.When I returned the first unit I had back to A4L,the unit was only insured for $100.

 

That's the amount of insurance you typically get for free. I'd guess the price drops at some point but then heads upwards as they are about to run out... pure guess. Roughly three months since Black Friday and they have sold around 70 units? Faster when the price was lower with free shipping... as in not of late. I guess it just depends on how long they want to sit on their money. At that rate another 6 months or more of stock... or much longer if everyone who wants one already has one? Perhaps one more surge of owners during a close-out close-out sale.

 

Another pure guess is the 1SaleADay units came from the defective returns via the Black Friday sale... I know I shipped mine directly to Sherwood.

post #2302 of 3156
I got one of the 1Sale units, and hooked it up last weekend. Have connected a Sony BluRay & my HTPC using HDMI and a Wii console using Composite, watching on a 60" Vizio LED/LCD TV.

With HDMI set to Auto (under System Setup), I see some random white streaks on the TV while watching the BluRay player, and after a while, the TV screen goes blank.
The TV then shows "Not Support".

If watching the HTPC, the TV screen flickers a lot, as if it is losing the signal.

Both, the BluRay and HTPC outputs are 1080P. Also noticed BluRay movies playing at 24P get converted to standard 60P.

The Wii upscales to 1080i and the image is stable.

If I set the HDMI under System Setup to "Bypass" no issues with the BluRay or HTPC, however, the Wii output gets compressed to 4:3 instead of 16:9

I've checked the firmware version, and it is 1.47i

Any ideas or suggestions?
post #2303 of 3156
I set up my R972 this weekend. The Trinnov processor is amazing, and the aforementioned tradeoffs (quirky ergonomics, delay when switching inputs, etc) well worth it IMO given the bargain price. So far I have not experienced the video upscaling issues that others have mentioned; it's upscaling fine from all sources even with a long HDMI run.

However I am experiencing one issue which I believe points to a defective unit. I spoke to Eugene at Sherwood, who had never heard of this but is being very helpful and has reached out to the technicians to try to get some answers. He even said he might email Curt (who I recall is also on this forum) if all else fails. But I gather it could be a while before he has any answers, and my suspicion is that the answer will be that this unit is bad. In the meantime I thought I'd post my symptom here and see if anyone's had a similar experience.

When using Trinnov in Audiophile 1 mode, there is spurious high frequency digital noise in the left front speaker while playing audio. This occurs on all 3 of my Trinnov presets, using different HDMI and Digital inputs from different sources ... but ONLY using Audiophile 1 - it works fine with every other Trinnov audio mode. Before I did a factory reset, the static usually accompanied the music, but periodically would be loud and continuous even if the audio was paused. After I did a factory reset and created new Trinnov presets it hasn't done it with the audio paused yet, but still does it with the audio playing, (But still, only using Audiophile 1, across all 3 Trinnov presets and with multiple sources.) Has anyone experienced something like this? Can you think of an explanation that does not involve this unit having a very strange defect?

I also experienced another issue that Eugene tells me is design flaw rather than a defect - that is to say, it's a known issue that Sherwood has no plans to address. I'm surprised that I didn't notice it mentioned before. The learning remote freezes when trying to operate some components that it has "learned." The learning process goes normally, but when I use the remote to operate that device, as soon as I push ANY button for that learned device the remote locks up and I have to remove a battery to reset it. This occurred when I tried to learn a Panasonic Blu Ray player (hoping to program in a couple buttons that are not pre-programmed by code) and a Netgear NeoTV streamer. However it had no problem learning/controlling my Patriot Box Office unit. Eugene said that the included remote has difficulties with some IR strings, and that Sherwood knows this but has no plan to address it. I find it surprising that something as pedestrian as a Panasonic DVD player (same remote codes for years) would be among them; $20 learning remotes from the corner drug store can learn Panasonic commands. This certainly isn't a deal breaker for me - given the discount on the receiver I can certainly afford an aftermarket remote - but if I'd paid full price for my R972 I'd have expected my learning remote to, er, learn. Anyone else have this happen? Any solution I'm unaware of?
post #2304 of 3156
Thought I'd post these two operational questions separately from my "defect" issue above, since they're unrelated...

First, can anyone help me understand the remote's IR vs. RF functionality a little better? I am having a really hard time understanding page 12 of the manual. It seems to be saying that if I switch the remote to RF mode and plug an IR emitter into the IR out jack on the back of the R972, it will convert non-Sherwood signals (i.e. dvd players, etc.) from IR to RF on the remote end, and then back to IR on the receiver end, thus allowing me to control those non Sherwood units via RF. Is that correct? If so, I'm not having any luck getting that to work. As long as I have an IR emitter (or perhaps even two, using a splitter), do I need the Xantech IR kit they mentioned in order to do that, and if so why? I am also not clear on why the receiver needs both an IR in and an IR out. Is this just a pass-through, and if so why? In what scenario would I use both the IR in and the IR out?

Second, on the digital audio Rermastering feature: Does it work for all digital audio sources up to 176.4kHz (including, for example, MP3 files via a digital output from a streaming device)? Do I understand correctly that if any form of surround sound or Trinnov processing is engaged the Remastering will not work? I do see that the Remastering indicator flashes when surround is engaged, but does not go on solid.

Sorry if these questions seem stupid. If the answers are in the manual or in this thread (which I've read completely but it's huge and things are easy to miss) I haven't found them or didn't understand them, and Eugene at Sherwood wasn't sure either.
Edited by busdepot - 3/1/13 at 7:25am
post #2305 of 3156
I've had the remote lockup issue as well. My simple solution was to use a Harmony remote instead, since the Sherwood one isn't that great.
post #2306 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I wrestled the (NIB) Marantz SR6007 for $684 and consider it even a bigger bargain. smile.gif

where did you find SR6007 at that price? BB clearance? I am looking for SR6006 at good prices (around 500). any suggestions?
post #2307 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I've had the remote lockup issue as well. My simple solution was to use a Harmony remote instead, since the Sherwood one sucks beyond belief.

Fixed the above for ya. Guys, let's face it the remote blows chunks. Love the "light" button on it that illuminates the lcd AND NOTHING ELSE!!! Pop for a harmony or URC. I am currently using a mx-450 with a URC-300 through the IR in jack on the back of the sherwood. Works great! I will go and check the audiophile 1 bug the above poster has later today..
post #2308 of 3156
Fellow Masochists! I have yet more info to impart to you to further confuse and astound you:

While holding "display" and "enter/memo" and turning the left knob to the right to view software information:

SYS MICOM 1.47i
XM PART VER 2.16
DSP PART 10/07/15
DSP FLASH 090318/391119 (for 6db boost file) 691119 (for 3db boost file) or 991119 (for FLAT boost file) MORE ON THIS LATER!!!
HDMI PART 1.11
DVP PART VER 09/08/19
972 USA M 50kHz RDS OFF AM 10kHz NTSC
UPGRADE
OR SCALER UPGRADE

Now the funny thing is someone said that doing a factory reset by holding the "standby" and "memo/enter" buttons for 3 seconds will reset to factory. I have tried on all three versions above and that does NOT seem to be the case. If I reset while having 391119, it still reads 391119 after a reset or even two resets. Same with the other two firmwares. I have no way to AUDIBLY confirm that this is the case, but that is what I notice when viewing the software info. I now plan on going back down, reloading the 6db file and rerunning Trinnov. I am still confused as to whether I should run Trinnov FIRST then apply the boost file, or do the boost file, then run Trinnov, but going to do the former.
post #2309 of 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

...the unit was only insured for $100.If that happened to be about what they paid for these units then they stand to still make a profit on them even at a lower selling price.

Default insurance w/o paying extra is $100 for a lot of shippers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

In reference to the the Trinnov MC unit that was available back in 2007,it was around $13,000 MSRP back then.I don't think they are selling for that much now...

Not sure what discounts are available, but I believe MSRP is still around that.
post #2310 of 3156
To my knowledge the subwoofer output file permanently changes the the playback targets. Reset does not effect it.

Jeff
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