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Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 89

post #2641 of 3153
Originally Posted by StevenLansing 

"You may not of heard, but the "Sherwood/Newcastle" line has been discontinued.Sherwood isn't really selling R-972 units anymore, just refurbs.They stopped production in 2010."

Yeah, that's why I alluded in an earlier post that Trinnov/Sherwood = "friends with benefits". It must be mutually financially beneficial for both Sherwood and Trinnov to continue new sales of the R-972. Otherwise, it seems hard to be believe that the R-972 which has been discontinued for 3+ years, and still after 3+ years, Sherwood still has so much overstock of New R-972s from when they last made them back in 2010 that they still have not run out of these units to sell through A4L? It's highly unlikely that any company would stock a 3+ year advance stock of anything. I think that it's more reasonable to believe that A4L is selling New R-972s with a 3 year warranty because they are still being manufactured. Also, I think I remember reading that the U.S Gov't requires that a manufacturer stock parts for 7 years after a product has been discontinued. As an example, Sears stopped selling the Weider Crossbow (competitor to Bowflex) 6-7 years ago. But I am still able to get the lifetime warranty on the power rods through Sears which I just ordered one of, for free. As relating to the R-972, even if that U.S law were not enforced you still have units that have a 3 year warranty that gives the customer some recourse during those 3 years for replacement or free repair. Now, why would Sherwood continue to make themselves liable with this 3 year warranty for a product they were trying to totally liquidate? Why not just sell off the new units "as is" or at most with a 90 day, 6 months, or even stretch it out to a 1 year, warranty? Why a 3 year warranty? Unless, you had plans to continue the unit's production until the lack of sales did not justify production of the unit any longer? No matter what the reason, I hope that Sherwood continues the R-972 for a long time or at least long enough for another company to make an AVR or pre/pro at a reasonable price that has Trinnov.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2642 of 3153
Hi All

There are several 3D algorithms on the market that have real benefits to users- the discussion above indicates that Yamaha may have such a system and that it performs well. There are others that add wide channels, etc as a static choice (meaning that it's a fixed system). These implementations differ greatly from Trinnov Remapping, as Remapping is an active, automated process that takes place in your listening environment based on your physical arrangement.

3D Remapping

Allow me to help clarify 3D Remapping, as implemented by Trinnov, vs what you may find in other units. As Jeff has indicated above, the real distinction to the very specific term coined by Trinnov, "2d or 3d Remapping" refers to the ability to locate speakers in a listening environment, and correctly position the acoustic image spatially, regardless of speaker placement. This capability is both unique and covered by international patents. The math involved requires the use of a Fourier Bessel transform, which required years of development to get right. The definition of 3D remapping applies to this process which differs from all other 3D solutions because, unlike all other systems, it's not static, and it truly separates the input channels from the speakers. Sounds become objects that are properly steered to their correct spatial orientation, regardless of speaker placement.

Center Channel Imaging Example

Let's take the case of the low center and add an additional variable that can happen in many systems: the L/R can't be symmetrically placed, such as a widely placed right speaker. The static system (ie Yamaha's) may be able to have an adjustment to "elevate the center," but the listener would then still have a image/spatial error of a wide image smear on the right side. As as more center elevation is added, the center image will shift to the right, pulled by the widely placed right speaker. Actually all information coming from the center an right speaker in this example would be smeared right and spatially distorted. Such errors do not occur with Trinnov Remapping, regardless of placement.

As for those of you trying to elevate the center image using Trinnov, the horizontal plane of the microphone combined with the height of the surrounding speakers will determine the image elevation. Remember that 2D does not correct height, only angle. Cinema = +/- 24 degrees L/R, Music = +/- 30 degrees (a wider frontal image). Music remapping is to the ITU standard, providing very accurate spatial reproduction for surround music content. BTW, my favorite 7.1 configuration for rooms that are wider then deep, with seating not far from the rear wall is to setup a traditional 5.1 placement, then add two wide speakers at about 50-60 degrees. With remapping, really fills in the front hole between the fronts and backs. Again, no need to have the wide speakers exactly symmetrically placed (doors, openings, windows, get in thre way of this), as Remapping will account for this.

I hope this helps clarify the important distinction of what Remapping is.

Cheers,
post #2643 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I didn't call it anything. If you have a problem take it up with Yamaha. As far as it not doing spatial mapping I can attest to such. You can define 3D anyway you wish... let's see how Yamaha defines it...

CINEMA DSP 3D provides a wide, high and dense sound field. HD Audio format decoding lets you enjoy HD Audio sources. Virtual Presence Speaker delivers 3-dimensional sound without actual use of Presence speakers.

To me delivering 3-dimensional sound without the use of presence speakers more than qualifies. As does Dialogue Lift (which again works much better in my room) which does exactly what you are saying they don't (spatial mapping).  One can even adjust the affect. Are they the same certainly not... which was refreshing.

As a real life comparison... let's take my desire to lift the dialogue.

R-972 
  • Didn't do it all in Movie mode (had to switch to Music)
  • Placed a portion of the center speaker in all speakers (including rear surrounds)
  • The affect wasn't adjustable in any way
  • The end result was the vocals were still anchored below the screen and at times noticeable from the rear surrounds

RX-A820
  • As long as 3D is active you can use Dialogue Lift
  • It places a portion of the center speaker in the surrounds
  • The effect can be adjusted from  0 - 5 (quite a large range).
  • The end result is superior in two ways. The dialogue is lifted higher and never rear directional.

R-972 
  • Didn't do it all in Movie mode (had to switch to Music)
    - it does on a working unit
  • Placed a portion of the center speaker in all speakers (including rear surrounds)
    - The effect is dynamic. You cannot localize the audio like this when working properly.
  • The affect wasn't adjustable in any way
    - See Curt's explanation
  • The end result was the vocals were still anchored below the screen and at times noticeable from the rear surrounds
    - this does not happen on a working unit

Your entire list of the R-972's flaws do not happen on a working unit like mine and many others. Had you have been able to receive one, your impressions of the unit would most likely be much different.
post #2644 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

Originally Posted by StevenLansing 

"You may not of heard, but the "Sherwood/Newcastle" line has been discontinued.Sherwood isn't really selling R-972 units anymore, just refurbs.They stopped production in 2010."

It must be mutually financially beneficial for both Sherwood and Trinnov to continue new sales of the R-972. Otherwise, it seems hard to be believe that the R-972 which has been discontinued for 3+ years, and still after 3+ years, Sherwood still has so much overstock of New R-972s from when they last made them back in 2010 that they still have not run out of these units to sell through A4L?

Well, if we're going to use this thread to delve into conspiracy theories (love 'em!) then here's mine.

I think, given the presence of certain persons on this thread, that this arrangement allows for a treasure trove of information to be collected that will feed into a more consumer-friendly experience for future Trinnov systems.

After all, we can't all afford an integrator to come in to calibrate things for us. On the other hand, selling hundreds of thousands of licensed units has got to be more lucrative then selling a handful of system integrations. But only if customer service expenses are kept under tight control.
post #2645 of 3153
I think your logic is dead on!
post #2646 of 3153
Quote:
Your entire list of the R-972's flaws do not happen on a working unit like mine and many others.


Who said anything about flaws? Design differences. Obviously, they are designed to function differently and just as obviously one can be better suited than the other (in both cases). The mere fact I can control if it's applied and how strongly trumps everything else. I used two R-972 units that were flawless... worked as designed. They were so flawless that I paid the return shipping on one occasion which certainly wouldn't have been the case if it wasn't.

 

Do you believe the R-972 is the perfect receiver for all installations? I'm going to guess no... (well I'm hopeful) and as such just consider mine one of those.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post


R-972 
  • Didn't do it all in Movie mode (had to switch to Music)
    - it does on a working unit - I sent a PM to Curt at the time and he stated this to be the case (based on speaker location).
  • Placed a portion of the center speaker in all speakers (including rear surrounds)
    - The effect is dynamic. You cannot localize the audio like this when working properly. - Stated by others within this thread.
  • The affect wasn't adjustable in any way
    - See Curt's explanation - Curt never addressed the 0 - 5 setting (did reference how his system addresses off angle speakers which isn't the case in my room).
  • The end result was the vocals were still anchored below the screen and at times noticeable from the rear surrounds
    - this does not happen on a working unit - Once again has been noted by others.

Edited by Charles R - 5/21/13 at 4:23pm
post #2647 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

Well, if we're going to use this thread to delve into conspiracy theories (love 'em!) then here's mine.

I think, given the presence of certain persons on this thread, that this arrangement allows for a treasure trove of information to be collected that will feed into a more consumer-friendly experience for future Trinnov systems.

After all, we can't all afford an integrator to come in to calibrate things for us. On the other hand, selling hundreds of thousands of licensed units has got to be more lucrative then selling a handful of system integrations. But only if customer service expenses are kept under tight control.

Sounds good to me...which effectively makes R-972 users advanced beta testers toward that day arriving tongue.gif

Even if a more consumer oriented, more fully featured Trinnov isn't realistic in the short-term, it's good marketing by Curt to take on the responsibility of keeping the user base here on AVS supported by periodic insight. So as a non-user but periodic poster here, thanks much!

I hope to eventually put some money toward at least an ST2 or TEQ-8 someday, since I've decided that unless there's some surround processing that makes existing AVRs obsolete (hello, Dolby Atmos!), I might as well stick with my 9.2 capable Denon 4311 and focus on acoustic treatments and video calibration on my Radiance Mini. Other than matrix input switching and zoning stuff, which falls into 'nice to have', there's nothing immediately compelling to switch AVRs just to try Trinnov. But if someone rolls out a 2014 flagship AVR with Trinnov in the interim, I won't say no.
Edited by sdrucker - 5/21/13 at 5:11pm
post #2648 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

I think that it's more reasonable to believe that A4L is selling New R-972s with a 3 year warranty because they are still being manufactured. Now, why would Sherwood continue to make themselves liable with this 3 year warranty for a product they were trying to totally liquidate? Why not just sell off the new units "as is" or at most with a 90 day, 6 months, or even stretch it out to a 1 year, warranty? Why a 3 year warranty? Unless, you had plans to continue the unit's production until the lack of sales did not justify production of the unit any longer? No matter what the reason, I hope that Sherwood continues the R-972 for a long time or at least long enough for another company to make an AVR or pre/pro at a reasonable price that has Trinnov.

I understand what you are saying about the warranty and support laws and how they have to keep parts etc,but Sherwood is no longer manufacturing new units.Production stopped in 2010. AC4less is not selling new manufactured units from Sherwood.AC4Less bought all their remaining stock a while back and is still selling what's left of those.They won't be getting anymore after that.


Here are the quotes about the Newcastle brand being discontinued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Sherwood USA has pulled the plug on the Newcastle brand, and reduced the size of their US operation.
The primary interest of the parent corporaton (Inkel) is to drive OE sales to customers such as Pioneer and Denon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Heard it straight from the brand...
Any Newcastle products in the pipeline will be supported and covered for warranty but going forward no more new Newcastle products..
There are some other factors but if you want to know more specifics, I suggest that you contact them directly...

Edited by StevenLansing - 5/21/13 at 5:46pm
post #2649 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

I have had my R-972 for about 13 months now and I consider it the single most significant audio purchase. I am still learning this amazing machine. My observation was similar to yours about the R-972 with music, at least via HDMI. Although, I was never completely convinced I had it setup the best it could be for my listening preferences anyway. Then one day I tried analog L/R out of my CD player into the R-972's analog "CD" L/R inputs. This was a game changer for me in listening to music. It was the missing link I was looking for. Hooked up this way I discovered how great the features "Remastering", and "Pure Audio" really are . Remastering, for those that don't know, doubles the resolution of the source. So, a 44.1 CD is now heard at 88.2 and so on with a cap at 24/192. Pure Audio took the sound to even another level. I did not hear much of a difference with HDMI, but in analog stereo it is unmistakable. Cutting off all of the video processing circuitry made a difference here. But the rear kicker here is, is that Trinnov works in this two channel analog stereo mode. Do What? That right! Guys, do you realize what a game changer in analog audio this is? In another room I have a HK AVR-354 powering another system. But HK's EZset EQ room correction only works using HDMI. Once you use it in analog you lose room eq capability. I heard that Audyssey works this same way as well, but I don't actually know from experience. But to listen to two channel analog stereo in 2.1 with Remastering and Pure Audio is awesome enough in itself, but to also be to have Trinnov EQ in two channel analog as well is mind blowing to me! I like listening in "Audiophile 2" where the sub and speaker's frequencies at 300hz, and below only, are EQ'd. In my room this sounds really good. Also, sometimes in combo with these setting I use "MCH" that takes the two channel stereo mode and divides it throughout my 5.1 system for a nice surround sound affect. It just keeps getting better. I am so glad I took the leap of faith and bought one of these.

I did try the analog outs from my Oppo into the CD analog inputs and engaged Remastering and Pure Audio. I must admit that it sounded good but I am pretty sure Trinnov was disabled which would make sense if your looking for Pure Audio. I switched back and forth with my music HDMI input with Trinnov enabled and I like the normal CD analog input better but I think that is because Trinnov was disabled.

The reason why I am pretty sure Trinnov is disabled when listening to the CD analog input is on my video 3 HDMI input the Room EQ is displayed on the top left corner above Video 3. When I switch to the analog CD input the Room EQ on the display goes out. You have to see it fast when in Pure Audio because the display goes blank quickly after switching inputs. Even taking Pure Audio off the Room EQ is still not shown on the display.

I did like just listening to my full range speakers without any other speakers or subs in straight 2 channel, I admittedly haven't done that in awhile. With Trinnov engaged on my music input all my speakers are active even in 2 channel mode there is a bit too much ambiance and it sounds a little thin. I have tried all of the remapping and EQ options but for me music is still were I could easily go with another choice. I do like music now more than before with the 972 but have had better and that opinion has not changed. I am about 90% movies and TV now so this is the BIGGEST strength when it comes to the 972, that I can't give up until there is a better option with Trinnov that is not $10K +.

Different strokes for different folks though and my preference is just that.
post #2650 of 3153
But you have to wonder? How many hundreds or even thousands of units did they manufacture 3 years ago that they still haven't run out yet? I imagine that there are many in other countries who are just as excited about Trinnov as we are. Sales then would be global which to me means that the remaining inventory should have run out long ago. But I like to think of it like sdrucker who said, ".which effectively makes R-972 users advanced beta testers toward that day arriving" (of the next consumer AVR/Trinnov unit) . Again, as a R-972 owner I really don't care about why and where they're coming from. I'm just glad for future R-972 owner's sakes that they are still here!

(PS - I do think that Sherwood should contact the Guinness Book of World Records for recognition for the longest lasting selling of a discontinued product! Lol. Cool!!!!!!!!!!! )
post #2651 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

But you have to wonder? How many hundreds or even thousands of units did they manufacture 3 years ago that they still haven't run out yet?

 

A4L showed around 200 in inventory when they purchased the remaining stock (last year). Last time I looked roughly 80 were remaining. Of course they could not be reflecting their entire stock but it has never increased... and has slowly decreased over time.

post #2652 of 3153
I don't think the R-972 was "directly" sold outside the US market.

The fact that it's taking so long to sell the remaining inventory that they had 3+ years later is a pretty good indicator of how successful the product was.

I personally don't like the idea of being a beta tester as a consumer who just wants a stable and reliably functioning product.Spending money on something that I have to constantly worry about possible turning into a boat anchor is just kinda bizarre to me,but I know others out there enjoy beta testing products.

I mean believe what you want. I'm just presenting information that indicates that they are no longer being manufactured now or into the future.That's all.smile.gif
post #2653 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

 I'm just presenting information that indicates that they are no longer being manufactured now or into the future.

 

Sherwood told me directly they sold all of the remaining (new) stock to A4L and had none... when I called them about a defective remote and trying to cure a unit which didn't find any speakers when EQing.

post #2654 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Sherwood told me directly they sold all of the remaining (new) stock to A4L and had none... when I called them about a defective remote and trying to cure a unit which didn't find any speakers when EQing.

Well there you have it.That answers that.
post #2655 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Your opinion is duly noted, again and again and again wink.gif


Speaking of beating a dead horse over and over again.Here is just a sampling for you.Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.wink.gif




Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I have had my first R-972 for about 6 months and still like it enough to have bought my second about a month or so ago. For me it really makes the speakers disappear and you are surrounded by bubble of sound around you. For music I am not all that impressed but it's still good, for movies it's addictive so that is why I keep it around. I am about 95% movies and TV right now anyway, if I leaned more towards music it would not be my first choice but you would have to spend a lot more money to beat it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

For me it really has nothing to do with the price so my review was solely based on performance in my system. I had a Onkyo 5508 pre-pro with Audyssey Pro to compare it to and before that had a Marantz AV7005 and Denon 4311. I have since sold the 5508 but I did feel the 5508 had the edge for music, for movies Trinnov was clearly better though and personally I could not give it up. With the 5508 I had an excellent soundstage or so I thought but with Trinnov the soundstage is so much more immerse that it sounds like I am listening to a 16.1 system as opposed to 7.1. I even tried a 9.1 system with the 5508 using wide channels but even that cannot complete with just a normal 7.1 channel Trinnov system.

If Sherwood would have made the 972 without all the quirks into a reliable machine then I would have gladly paid the full boat retail of $1,800 just to get Trinnov. I have said it before but if Onkyo/Integra were to come out with a pre-pro and replaced Audyssey with Trinnov I would fumble for my wallet and pay the full retail of $2500 gladly. When I had the 5508 I often thought if it only had Trinnov I would be set for a long time, I am with bhazard in that I am hooked on the 3D re-mapping and won't consider another receiver/pre-pro without it.

I hope that was Rose colored enough for you biggrin.gif.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I have had my first 972 for close to a year now and it still impresses me with the SQ. I have also grown more fond of listening to music through the 972 which at first didn't impress me but I got my first one mainly for movies so that didn't concern me. After a year there really is nothing I would replace it with other than the ADA/Trinnov products when they hopefully come down to reasonable prices. It is easily the made the most difference in my system besides the bass additions in a long time..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I bought my first 972 for $599 + about $50 for shipping just because I was curious about Trinnov. I am glad it worked out as I like it so much I bought a second one when the refurbs were available for $350 and have been really lucky that they both have only had minor quirks. If it worked perfectly then I would have gladly paid the original $1800 price as it replaced a Onkyo 5508 pre-pro which was right around the same price.

I can fully understand why people are hesitant though and have discouraged some friends and family from buying one as I know they are not patient. I can live with the quirks because the SQ is worth the hassle but admittedly there are times when I curse it's name when one of the quirks rears it's ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I think it's a steal as well at $599, if it wasn't for the refurbs at $299 then a lot more people would think it was as well.

When I refer to "all the issues" it doesn't have anything to do with Trinnov, it has all to do with the hardware and software surrounding it. I have been fortunate to not have many issues with both of my 972's but there still are a lot compared to any other receiver/pre-pro I have owned in the past. Trinnov is the reason why I put up with all the issues, it is the only thing that makes the 972 worthwhile IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I too have tried nearly all the EQ's out there besides Anthem's and Emotiva's. I actually had a full blown Audyssey pro set-up for my Onkyo 5508 which was really nice. I use to do a little side work in the A/V Industry so have been fortunate enough to own a lot of pre-pro's and receivers, my favorite being the Halcro SSP-220 but I dumped that when they had reliability problems. There are a lot I would probably pick over the 972 for music, all of them a LOT more expensive. For movies though I am hooked on Trinnov and would only consider the ADA or add on Trinnov processors now though. The problem with the other options is they are very pricey so I can be patient with the 972 until the prices come down to sensible levels.

The 972 definitely isn't for everyone but when it works right it can be outstanding, I really enjoy the 2 972's I have, quirks and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I still have a Onkyo 3008 with XT32 and SubEQ and use to have a Onkyo 5508 pre-pro in my other system, both of which I replaced with the 972. From going back and forth I personally feel the 3008 and 5508 are better for music but for movies and TV the 972 gives me the biggest sound field I have ever heard. I think you will find that most users who are hooked on Trinnov will point out the enveloping sound to be the biggest draw, I really can't go back to anything else because of it. The music preference is not huge in favor of XT32 and I have really begun to like the 972 a lot more for music the more I tweak the settings but I don't think it will ever match my favorite music pre-pro's.

I also noticed XT32 with the Onkyo's did a better job on my subs than Trinnov but it was not a huge difference.

You can't adjust the crossovers, distance or levels once Trinnov is engaged, if you like to tweek then this might not be for you. I have 2 different systems and Trinnov has done a great job on both that I don't mind not being able to change the settings. I just always have to add the 6db bass boost as the normal level is always way too low.

There are some here that won't give up what Trinnov can do via the 972, others have been plagued with so many problems they are happy to move on to something else. I personally have owned the Onkyo's I have already mentioned along with the Marantz 7005, Denon 4311 and many high end pre-pro's before that but I would not replace the 972 with any of them unless it was a music only system. I am crossing my fingers I am not forced to replace it due to problems, so far so good though with over a year with my first and 6 months with the second I picked up for another system.


On another note,I notice that my responses to criticism have been selectively and conventionally been removed and the similar offending posts from the party that I was responding to have not been.Are we sure there isn't just a little bias going on here?

Hmmm...speaking of conspiracies,I guess I was getting to close to the truth. gue the X-files music.

Well if men in black suits show up I can show them to a R-972.That should keep them baffled long enough for me to escape!eek.gif

In all seriousness though, This a a thread for R-972 users,former, current as well as future. Not a praise the R-972 because I bought it thread only.;)It's about users experiences both good and bad. It's about sharing positive attributes of the unit as well as critsism. If some people just can't handle that fact then well.....
Edited by StevenLansing - 5/21/13 at 9:48pm
post #2656 of 3153
From mjaudio:

"I did try the analog outs from my Oppo into the CD analog inputs and engaged Remastering and Pure Audio. I must admit that it sounded good but I am pretty sure Trinnov was disabled which would make sense if your looking for Pure Audio. I switched back and forth with my music HDMI input with Trinnov enabled and I like the normal CD analog input better but I think that is because Trinnov was disabled.

The reason why I am pretty sure Trinnov is disabled when listening to the CD analog input is on my video 3 HDMI input the Room EQ is displayed on the top left corner above Video 3. When I switch to the analog CD input the Room EQ on the display goes out. You have to see it fast when in Pure Audio because the display goes blank quickly after switching inputs. Even taking Pure Audio off the Room EQ is still not shown on the display.

I did like just listening to my full range speakers without any other speakers or subs in straight 2 channel, I admittedly haven't done that in awhile. With Trinnov engaged on my music input all my speakers are active even in 2 channel mode there is a bit too much ambiance and it sounds a little thin. I have tried all of the remapping and EQ options but for me music is still were I could easily go with another choice. I do like music now more than before with the 972 but have had better and that opinion has not changed. I am about 90% movies and TV now so this is the BIGGEST strength when it comes to the 972, that I can't give up until there is a better option with Trinnov that is not $10K +.

Different strokes for different folks though and my preference is just that."


Let me explain how I use Remastering + Pure Audio + Trinnov on 2 channel stereo with my subs:

After getting into the setup menu and selecting "input" continue scrolling until you come to "CD". On page 2 of CD make sure that Auto Surround is set to OFF.

If you have Auto Surround set to ON you will not you will not be able to use the multi surround modes in the R-972 like " MCH" or multi surround stereo when you do turn Trinnov on. When you have Auto Surround turned to OFF you will now use Remastering + Pure Audio + Trinnov. Go to page 3 of the CD page and set Trinnov to however you want. Then turn on Remastering and Pure Audio. Pure Audio will automatically set the R-972 to stereo which you will see in the speaker diagram in the left of the R-972's screen that will show the two front speakers plus a sub, but Trinnov is still engaged.

Now turn OFF Pure Audio and you will see all the speakers that are in your system appear in the left of the R-972's screen. It is now with Pure Audio turned OFF that you can now use all the cool surround modes in the R-972 + Remastering + Trinnov.

By the way, Pure Audio's function is to make the audio cleaner by 1) turning of all video processing circuitry inside the R-972 thereby eliminating any interference from it on audio. 2) It changes the R-972 to Stereo only mode (2.0, or 2.1) which takes all the audio information ordinarily sent to the center and surround speakers and sends it all to your front L/R speakers. To me this sounds the best.

No matter which route you go, stereo or multi-channel, you have the flexibility of always being able to turn Remastering and/or Trinnov off. It's all about what sounds best to you!
post #2657 of 3153
Thanks for clearing that up islandman2020, I will give that a shot.
post #2658 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

No matter which route you go, stereo or multi-channel, you have the flexibility of always being able to turn Remastering and/or Trinnov off. It's all about what sounds best to you!

You're using that with the analog input? Have you tried it with digital? I use a Sonos via coax so I'm curious as to whether you would hear an improvement there.
post #2659 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

You're using that with the analog input? Have you tried it with digital? I use a Sonos via coax so I'm curious as to whether you would hear an improvement there.

Hey artur9,

Yeah, I use my CD player L/R RCA out into the L/R RCA in on the CD input on the back of the R-972. Couple of things here though. My CD player is about 15 years old so it is before HDMI was even invented!. It has Coax out but I have not tried it that way because I was so impressed with the analog sound . But after reading your post I think I will give Coax a shot soon to compare the difference. I have an old "fat" PS3 that has HDMI out. At first, I was playing CD's through it with it hooked up to the R-972 by HDMI. CDs always sounded somewhat lifeless and flat to me this way, but I got used to it assuming that digital (hdmi) was the best sound possible anyway for music, because after all, it's the latest technology, right? I do not know if newer players have an improved HDMI circuit that improves the sound, but with my PS3 the sound is not nearly as good as going the analog path with my old CD player. I did not notice much difference, if any, using "Remastering" and "Pure Audio" with HDMI. But going the analog route (again, RCA out on CD player > RCA in on the CD inputs on the R-972) the sound of these two features was much more dramatic. Through HDM on my old PS3, the sound is less rich, and full. But it may sound just as good as analog going through Coax on you Sonus. I just haven't tried it coax yet on my CD player. From what I understand the Sonus is an awesome device. Being a late technology device with good DACs it could very well be that going through its Coax out is your best sound. The only way to know for sure is to compare. If you do, report back. Inquiring minds would love to know! Have a good one!
post #2660 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

From what I understand the Sonus is an awesome device. Being a late technology device with good DACs it could very well be that going through its Coax out is your best sound. The only way to know for sure is to compare. If you do, report back. Inquiring minds would love to know! Have a good one!

The Sonos is awesome for 3 reasons. I'm using a Connect so your mileage may vary with the other components.
1) It's all about the apps. You can control the Sonos through the computer, iPhone, iPad or Android. Includes what I assume to be a digital volume control but I'm hoping to connect one to Room 2 to just use the R-972's volume control.
2) It has a line in so you can splat another source all over the place. I have one hooked up to the TV so I can hear it everywhere.
3) It has 3 outputs: coax, toslink, and RCA. And you can use all three simultaneously. I've found that I always use at least 2.

Anyway, to keep this more related I did try remastering and pure audio over coax this morning, briefly.

I'm not sure that the remastering did anything but I think it has the most influence over the frequency range that I hear the least (high frequency)? Then again, I was playing high bitrate audio so I should try it again with something with lower bitrates.

I could hear slightly cleaner sound with the Pure Audio option. So, for me, that's a keeper for sure. By cleaner, I mean the quiet passages seemed more quiet so that dynamics were improved.
post #2661 of 3153
I've had a Sonos Connect for close to 5 years now. Love it.

I just wish it could do higher sampling rates.

If/when Oppo adds the ability to do playlists for streaming music to their players, I will probably get rid of the Sonos to simplify my system a bit.

That said, my Sonos is connected via optical to my R972.
post #2662 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

That said, my Sonos is connected via optical to my R972.

They get really useful when you have more than one.

The one connected to the R-972 is physically far away so I connected it via a long coax cable because the preamp the R-972 is replacing had fewer opticals. And a long coax cable was cheaper than a long optical cable.
post #2663 of 3153
I don't see the reason some people continue to post in the thread if they didn't like the unit. What's the point? You didn't like it, you moved on to another piece of equipment, so why bother to keep talking about it?

It would be like if I continually monitored the 4311 thread just to shoot it down at any given time because it doesn't provide the same effect Trinnov does in my room.
post #2664 of 3153
.
3) It has 3 outputs: coax, toslink, and RCA. And you can use all three simultaneously. I've found that I always use at least 2.

Anyway, to keep this more related I did try remastering and pure audio over coax this morning, briefly.

I'm not sure that the remastering did anything but I think it has the most influence over the frequency range that I hear the least (high frequency)? Then again, I was playing high bitrate audio so I should try it again with something with lower bitrates.

I could hear slightly cleaner sound with the Pure Audio option. So, for me, that's a keeper for sure. By cleaner, I mean the quiet passages seemed more quiet so that dynamics were improved.[/quote]that

artur9, I noticed the most difference in my setup using RCA. Did you try it that way in yours? If not, and if you do, try Remastering while using RCA and see if you hear a difference. Also, try it on a "not so good" recordingas well. As a example for me was the first 10 sec of "Flying in a Blue Dream" by Joe Satriani. Kind of a weird unintelligible mix of sounds going on there. Focus on one sound with Remastering on, then again with off. Remastering fine tunes the clarity in my system on this part.
post #2665 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

.
artur9, I noticed the most difference in my setup using RCA. Did you try it that way in yours?

Well, I'd have to physically move the Sonos (horrors!) to try that. But, if I must, for the good of the group, then OK.

I think, though, that using lower quality/bitrate recordings will probably have more of an impact.

Note also that I'm not using Trinnov in these tests.
post #2666 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I don't see the reason some people continue to post in the thread if they didn't like the unit. What's the point? You didn't like it, you moved on to another piece of equipment, so why bother to keep talking about it?
Religion. It's not enough to not like the Sherwood, others have to be converted to not liking it too. Hence the constant repitition (preaching). If one soul can be saved from buying the Sherwood, then the crusade will have been worth it.
post #2667 of 3153
Hallelujah
post #2668 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

"StevenLansing"

You hate it I like it, end of discussion.

I never said I hated it.You said I did .I've just been pointing out that it's not for everyone and that's been the point the whole time.That's what you call both sides of the story.

Pointless discussion over.
Edited by StevenLansing - 5/22/13 at 3:29pm
post #2669 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Religion. It's not enough to not like the Sherwood, others have to be converted to not liking it too. Hence the constant repitition (preaching). If one soul can be saved from buying the Sherwood, then the crusade will have been worth it.

I've never preached anything.Look at my posts.

Didn't you say that the R-972 was a cheap receiver?Would it be fair to say that someone might take that as not liking it?It's all about perspective.I have one, you have one, we all have on.If not why even bother calling it a discussion forum.

I've been on here answering peoples posts constructively,just like everyone else.
Edited by StevenLansing - 5/22/13 at 3:38pm
post #2670 of 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

I've never preached anything.
You read that description and thought I was talking about you? Well, if you think the shoe fits, far be it from me to argue.
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