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Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 99

post #2941 of 3154
I TRULY appreciate everyone’s input and, based on everyone’s observation that I’m dealing with a null in the 150Hz range, I reconfigured my four Klipsch KW-120 subs.

Originally, both old (Klipsch THX Ultra2) and new (M&K S5000THX) systems, I used 4 KW-120’s stacked (coupled) in the front right corner of the room powered by two KA-1000 amps. I moved one sub to the opposing corner of the room and with one sub in each corner, ran the Trinnov optimizer and viola! ALL 7 speakers cutoff at or below 80Hz for the first time, with either system!

Utilizing the “more is better” mentality, I then added the other two subs (and the second KA-1000 amp) and ran Trinnov again. In frustration, I recreated the null with the higher crossover (around 150Hz).
Are the 4 subs too much for a VERY large room (17’ wide x 30’ long, 10’ ceiling and lot’s of glass) with an adjoining room (kitchen/breakfast)of similar size along the right (24’ open) side?

While I’m frustrated as I thought I had the null resolved, I know how good Trinnov can sound with this receiver and want to get it right!!!

Thanks for any additional input!

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2942 of 3154
4 12" sub's too much? Its actually somewhat not enough.

Personally, I would sell the klipsch subs and run 4 18" Stereo Integrity or Dayton sub's, and hook them up to a peavey IPR2-7500. You'll get much, much better bass response, 4000w RMS of power, and it would cost slightly more than 1 kw-120.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
post #2943 of 3154
Can anyone with efficient speakers chime in here as to any differences between running the R-972's internal amps vs external amps?

I like to listen to music in multi-channel and Im not sure if I'd benefit from external amps being that my speakers are very efficient. Im running Klipsch RF-82 IIs for front and RB-61 IIs for surrounds.

Thanks in advance.
post #2944 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexST View Post

Can anyone with efficient speakers chime in here as to any differences between running the R-972's internal amps vs external amps?

I like to listen to music in multi-channel and Im not sure if I'd benefit from external amps being that my speakers are very efficient. Im running Klipsch RF-82 IIs for front and RB-61 IIs for surrounds.

Thanks in advance.

The only potential advantage is if the surrounds are a lot less sensitive than the mains (or a lot further away), and the separate amp has level controls for each channel. Then it may be advantageous, so that the Optimizer "sees" speakers that are already fairly close in level.

The big disadvantage is potential noise from a second powersupply, analog line-level connection, etc.
post #2945 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK20 View Post

I TRULY appreciate everyone’s input and, based on everyone’s observation that I’m dealing with a null in the 150Hz range, I reconfigured my four Klipsch KW-120 subs.

Originally, both old (Klipsch THX Ultra2) and new (M&K S5000THX) systems, I used 4 KW-120’s stacked (coupled) in the front right corner of the room powered by two KA-1000 amps. I moved one sub to the opposing corner of the room and with one sub in each corner, ran the Trinnov optimizer and viola! ALL 7 speakers cutoff at or below 80Hz for the first time, with either system!

Utilizing the “more is better” mentality, I then added the other two subs (and the second KA-1000 amp) and ran Trinnov again. In frustration, I recreated the null with the higher crossover (around 150Hz).
Are the 4 subs too much for a VERY large room (17’ wide x 30’ long, 10’ ceiling and lot’s of glass) with an adjoining room (kitchen/breakfast)of similar size along the right (24’ open) side?

While I’m frustrated as I thought I had the null resolved, I know how good Trinnov can sound with this receiver and want to get it right!!!

Thanks for any additional input!

You could try lowering the low pass filter control on the subs if they have an adjustment knob for it.It will force Trinnov to use a lower cross-over frequency.
post #2946 of 3154
Thanks DS-21. I had my doubts about SQ improving by adding an external amp being that my speakers are so efficient. Still wanted to confirm since I see a lot of folks running external amps and calling the amp section of the R-972 weak.
post #2947 of 3154
Anyone else experiencing problems with the R-972 and their Xbox360? I no longer get sound out of my Xbox360. I have tried everything... resetting the R-972 receiver, switching HDMI cables, trying component cables with optical out, using different HDMI ports, turning off detect display on the Xbox360. Nothing is working. Plugging the Xbox360 directly into the TV works. Any other thoughts? Guy at Sherwood felt the HDMI board might be defective. Since I am out of warranty, I have a feeling that could be a costly endeavor.
post #2948 of 3154
Hello, all. I'm thinking about buying one of these, but the R-972 is so huge that I need to ask what might sound like an odd question:

Can someone tell me what the measurements are for width and depth, measuring from the center of the feet? That is, how many inches is it from the center of the left-front foot to the right-front foot, and how many from the left-front foot to the left-rear foot?

The reason I ask is that I have only so much space on my equipment rack. The reported 19.25" depth is way too deep for my rack, but the 17.375" width might barely work if I put receiver sideways (my rack is behind a couch and I use an IR repeater, so a sideways setup would be ok).

My rack is 15.25" deep, so the reported width is still 2.125" more than that. But so long as the feet make it onto the rack, I could live with the receiver sticking out a bit in front and back.

Can anyone help me out here?
post #2949 of 3154
My rack is about 15.75" deep so the 972 sticks out on the front and back but the feet are solidly on the rack.
post #2950 of 3154
Key point is to keep the L/R sides and top cover clear.. Provide @ least 3-4" of free-air clearance..

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
post #2951 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexST View Post

Can anyone with efficient speakers chime in here as to any differences between running the R-972's internal amps vs external amps?

I like to listen to music in multi-channel and Im not sure if I'd benefit from external amps being that my speakers are very efficient. Im running Klipsch RF-82 IIs for front and RB-61 IIs for surrounds.

Thanks in advance.

I've run 3 R-972's with 3 sets of speakers that have 86, 87, and 90 db efficiency ratings. The amps built into the R-972 are plenty powerful even in a 39ft x 14ft room with vaulted ceilings that opens to a 2nd room of nearly the same size. I did add a separate Outlaw Audio 7125 amp to one of my R-972s and I felt that very loud passages of blu rays were slightly smoother sounding but I wouldn't recommend the additional expense unless you are really picky about sound (like me).

I'm guessing that your Klipsh speakers are likely more efficient than 90db and that the difference in adding a external amp would potentially be less worthwhile for you.
post #2952 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexST View Post

Can anyone with efficient speakers chime in here as to any differences between running the R-972's internal amps vs external amps?

I like to listen to music in multi-channel and Im not sure if I'd benefit from external amps being that my speakers are very efficient. Im running Klipsch RF-82 IIs for front and RB-61 IIs for surrounds.

Thanks in advance.

I've run 3 R-972's with 3 sets of speakers that have 86, 87, and 90 db efficiency ratings. The amps built into the R-972 are plenty powerful even in a 39ft x 14ft room with vaulted ceilings that opens to a 2nd room of nearly the same size. I did add a separate Outlaw Audio 7125 amp to one of my R-972s and I felt that very loud passages of blu rays were slightly smoother sounding but I wouldn't recommend the additional expense unless you are really picky about sound (like me).

I'm guessing that your Klipsh speakers are likely more efficient than 90db and that the difference in adding a external amp would potentially be less worthwhile for you.
post #2953 of 3154
If your speakers are efficient (92db or more), and they can only handle 200w "max" RMS or under, there is no need for an amp with this receiver.

My DIY fronts can take up to 750W RMS, and DIY surrounds can take 400W. Those get amps smile.gif They were running off an XPA-5, but I recently switched to the new Inuke 4 channel, giving 400+w per channel.

If you do want an amp, well, there's always my XPA-5 in the classifieds.
post #2954 of 3154
Thank you much Encom and bhazard. I would be willing to spend the cash if I knew that SQ was going to improve, but from what you guys have experienced, it seems 98dB(RF-82II) and 95dB (RB-61II) speakers like mine wouldn't benefit at all from more juice. Perhaps in the future when I upgrade speakers-any suggestions?-I'll pull the trigger on a 5 or 7 channel channel EMO amp.

Rex.
post #2955 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexST View Post

Thank you much Encom and bhazard. I would be willing to spend the cash if I knew that SQ was going to improve, but from what you guys have experienced, it seems 98dB(RF-82II) and 95dB (RB-61II) speakers like mine wouldn't benefit at all from more juice. Perhaps in the future when I upgrade speakers-any suggestions?-I'll pull the trigger on a 5 or 7 channel channel EMO amp.

Rex.

An amp with speakers that efficient is basically wasted money. You won't hear a difference unless you like your music/movies at earplug/concert levels at all times.

The best upgrade path from your Klipsch is spending multiple thousands per speaker on flagship name brands, or my recommended path, is to look at the Seaton Sound Catalysts and JTR Noesis speakers mentioned on this forum. Seaton and JTR are Internet direct companies run by stellar guys who have worked for the big names like Danley. The JTR Noesis is a $2000 speaker that sounds better than just about every other speaker in the market right now, something even the $10,000 Klipsch models can't compare to.

The even bigger value based upgrade is building a speaker yourself from one of the diysoundgroup.com kits. My speakers I built from there cost less than $600 a speaker, and in some ways can sound better than the Noesis (mine play deeper into 20hz).

Either of those options will surpass anything you can think of from a brand name on the market, sans some crazy $30,000+ models.
post #2956 of 3154
Yesterday my R-972 developed a problem where only HDMI 1 is working, all the other HDMI ports will not display video. Has anyone else had a problem like this? I am guessing it will have to be sent in for repairs.
post #2957 of 3154

Bought a refurbished unit not too long ago.  The sound is great, but having a lot of difficulty with the video in cable mode.  Switching channels has a 5-6 second delay with the sound coming on even longer.  Anyone seen this type of problem and any solution?

post #2958 of 3154
You can usually solve this problem (which can be seen on other receivers too) by setting the cable box to output a fixed resolution (e.g. 1080i or 720p, whichever you prefer). Normally keeping the resolution fixed will prevent an HDMI handshake from happenning when you switch channels.
post #2959 of 3154

Thanks so much for the advice.  It worked!!  Saved my marriage and my life.  Wife was ready to tie this 50 lb block around by neck and throw into the pool.

 

I still notice that the audio is delayed a bit after video...any ideas there?

post #2960 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpapsin81054 View Post

Thanks so much for the advice.  It worked!!  Saved my marriage and my life.  Wife was ready to tie this 50 lb block around by neck and throw into the pool.

I still notice that the audio is delayed a bit after video...any ideas there?

Unfortunately there is no fix for it, it is just a poorly designed aspect of the receiver.
One thing you can do if it really bugs you is set your cable box to only output stereo or non surround sound (some boxes will not do this at all) this way the receiver will not get a changing signal causing the delay every time it switches from surround sound to stereo.
post #2961 of 3154

Appreciate the help from this site.  Thanks for the guidance.

post #2962 of 3154
Wishing I'd bought an additional R972 refurb from 1saleaday, despite its quirks. If anyone decides to offload theirs (refurb, not refurb, or even flaky), please email me at bd (at) busdepot (dotcom). Thanks.
post #2963 of 3154
How about R972 new at accessories4less?
It's not a refurb, but it's in stock as of right now at $600?
post #2964 of 3154
So, unfortunate incident last weekend. Forgot to turn the theater system off after watching football since we were deciding whether to watch any of the SD/Oak game, and awoke Monday morning to find that both the HDMI input on the projector and the HDMI output on the R972 appear to be dead. VGA in to the pj works, and I get audio over HDMI into the receiver, so it appears that at some point during the night one side of the HDMI link went bad and took the other side with it.

So, I now have a 972 that is audio-only. My guess is that trying to get it repaired isn't worth the hassle, but if anyone has positive experience sending a unit in for service I'd be interested in hearing it.

We're in the process of moving to a new place with a big rec space in the basement, but building out a theater setup won't happen for a few months at least. Using the 972 with an Oppo which has split HDMI outs is a distinct possibility for the new space, but until then I actually have several audio experiments I may use the receiver for - basically using it via HDMI as a 7.1 channel soundcard/amp combo for active 2/3-way speakers. Questions along that line

- how do you config the receiver to pass 'unmolested' 7.1 LPCM from HDMI through to the amps with no processing? Is setting everything to 'large' and turning off surround enough?
- when set up as unmolested as possible, is the ".1" output band-limited in any way, or will it simply pass whatever is in the nominal LFE slot in the 7.1 stream?
- is it actually viable to set the 972 up without a display? will the OSD output over composite or something for setup purposes?
- (only semi-related) does the 972 provide a 'direct' mode for 7.1 analog inputs which bypasses A/D, or is the A/D always in the loop? (i.e. is using it as a 7-channel amp a dumb idea)
post #2965 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

So, unfortunate incident last weekend. Forgot to turn the theater system off after watching football since we were deciding whether to watch any of the SD/Oak game, and awoke Monday morning to find that both the HDMI input on the projector and the HDMI output on the R972 appear to be dead. VGA in to the pj works, and I get audio over HDMI into the receiver, so it appears that at some point during the night one side of the HDMI link went bad and took the other side with it.

So, I now have a 972 that is audio-only. My guess is that trying to get it repaired isn't worth the hassle, but if anyone has positive experience sending a unit in for service I'd be interested in hearing it.

We're in the process of moving to a new place with a big rec space in the basement, but building out a theater setup won't happen for a few months at least. Using the 972 with an Oppo which has split HDMI outs is a distinct possibility for the new space, but until then I actually have several audio experiments I may use the receiver for - basically using it via HDMI as a 7.1 channel soundcard/amp combo for active 2/3-way speakers. Questions along that line

- how do you config the receiver to pass 'unmolested' 7.1 LPCM from HDMI through to the amps with no processing? Is setting everything to 'large' and turning off surround enough?
- when set up as unmolested as possible, is the ".1" output band-limited in any way, or will it simply pass whatever is in the nominal LFE slot in the 7.1 stream?
- is it actually viable to set the 972 up without a display? will the OSD output over composite or something for setup purposes?
- (only semi-related) does the 972 provide a 'direct' mode for 7.1 analog inputs which bypasses A/D, or is the A/D always in the loop? (i.e. is using it as a 7-channel amp a dumb idea)

Which HDMI port are you using? I had the HDMI on my 972 die on me about a month ago, it was ports 2-4 which are on a separate board from HDMI 1 so one or the other should be working if the problem is the port itself and not something deeper in the receiver.
I would try doing a full reset and see if that helps any. Tech guy will have you do it anyway when you are on the phone with him.
I called their customer support, which is surprisingly good and they told me to ship them the receiver. It cost about $50 to ship it from SC to CA but they replaced the board and sent it back. In total it took less than a month.
I have not done it yet but when my theater room is finished I will be using the 972 as audio only with my Oppo 103. My plan was to use a temporary small monitor just to setup the audio and then disconnect it when I was done.
post #2966 of 3154
Can some help me with this....
Im currently using a Onkyo Tn xr906 along with the much loved velodyne SMS 1 bass Eq.
I have 2 Huge questions.
1. Will trinnov replace my sms1 ?
The onkyo currently does not do anywhere near its bass management an eq.

2. Will the newcastle run with my current thx ultra 906 in performance?

I used to own the newcastle separates and Loved them. I was thinking about trying thus unit if it was on par with the 906 in build quality and performance, and i like the idea of not needing the sms1 any longer.
My system currently is:

Onkyo Tx nr906
Velodyne SmS1 eq
Jbl studio l830 mains
Jbl LC2 center
Jbl l8400 x2 subs
Jbl l820 x4 rears
Edited by JESSIE DART - 10/17/13 at 12:27pm
post #2967 of 3154
ALso...anyone know the real weight of this beast?
Ive seen listenings from a weak 40lbs to a healthy 60 lbs...?
post #2968 of 3154
I replaced a Onkyo PR-SC5508 and also a Onkyo 3008, both of which have Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ with a pair of R-972's and it was an upgrade. XT32 did a better job for me on bass EQ though so if you need the extra processing on the SMS-1 then you might still need it with Trinnov. For music I actually prefer the Onkyo's but for movies and TV the 3D spatial remapping has me hooked like a halibut.

As far as weight is concerned don't they list it in the specs? The Onkyo 3008 is heavier than the 972, doesn't make a difference to me though as I don't lift with my ears biggrin.gif
post #2969 of 3154
Thanks..
Sounds like its a nice sounding piece....
Im close to making the decision on this
post #2970 of 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by JESSIE DART View Post

ALso...anyone know the real weight of this beast?
Ive seen listenings from a weak 40lbs to a healthy 60 lbs...?

IIRC, shipping weight is like 55lbs. I know that lugging mine around was really quite the workout.
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