Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh
So I picked up one of the last (actually the very last one) r-972's at a4l last year. Last weekend I got a chance to test it with the surround system. Compared to audyssey xt32 the bass seemed much more prevalent. I'm guessing that is because the bass region is not tamed as well as with xt32? Assuming that is the case, I prefer the flatter bass response. I didn't take any measurements, that was just a subjective observation made using Oblivion blu-Ray scenes for comparison. To that end, I may get one of the mini-dsp's, or try the trinnov-xt32 cascade pioneered by sdrucker.
First of all, can you give us some details about your system? It's difficult for anyone here to give answers without knowing what kind of speakers and sub(s) you have in your room. (Edit: they were in OP, but not visible on my screen at the time).
Are you using the Flat or the Natural setting (slight elevation of about 3 db from flat @ 20 Hz, tilting to flat at 200 Hz, and a tilt downward from flat in the HF around 5 kHz)? That might make a difference in your bass if you're running Natural. I prefer Natural for music, Flat for movies personally, vs. the Audyssey Reference curve with flat bass for music.
As to the bass EQ with Audyssey XT32 vs. a Trinnov calibration, aside from any issues having to do with single vs. multiple sub handling (if applicable), one reason could be the way that Trinnov handles crossovers. The Trinnov system sets the crossover at the midpoint between the -6 db lowest frequency detected for your mains and the - 6 db high frequency detected for your subs. Depending on the relative capabilities of your mains and subs, are you getting a higher crossover for mains than with XT32? That may actually give you MORE bass depending on how smooth the responses are. Not the predicted ones from Audyssey but what you measure in your room. I would strongly consider measuring the comparative (EQ vs. no EQ) bass response - sub only, left and right speakers + sub(s) - with an OmniMic or REW and a USB mic, for both XT32 and Sherwood's Trinnov. Without those tools, we're just guessing.
Another issue is whether you tend to optimize for the multiple seats, or emphasize MLP. The R-972's implementation of Trinnov is single measurement, while Audyssey XT32 can measure up to eight positions (32 if you have the Pro Kit). Depending on how widely an area in the room you're EQing, and where your measurements are, you may just prefer the XT32's EQ of bass due to the broader area EQ'd overall, all else equal.
Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh
Before I try out the trinnov-xt32 Frankenstein setup, there is one thing about the r-972 that bothers me, but maybe it shouldn't. When I crank the volume up to +8, I can start to hear an audible buzz when close to the speakers. When cranked to +20, the buzz is easily audible 8 feet away (source was paused or stopped when turning volume up this high). Now, there is really no reason to crank the volume over 0, but I like a low noise system. My denon puts out a hiss when cranked up to +18 (again, without source), but it really doesn't sound as "bad" as the buzz out of the Sherwood. I know this buzz also comes through the pre-amp, because I had an external amp connected before.
What I'm looking for from the community, is to find out if this is standard for the r-972, or if my unit might have a manufacturing defect. Anyone noticed the same thing, or lack of, or willing to test on their system?
I need to make something clear: there isn't an XT32-Sherwood Trinnov cascade. What I have in my system is a Denon 4311 running XT32, and an R-972 running Trinnov that uses the EXT. IN. on the Denon 4311 so that I can employ the Denon as an amp. Those EXT. INs on the Denon 4311 are analog, so there's no Audyssey processing occurring in any form on sources that get Trinnov processing through the R-972. Effectively what I have is two "systems" that get amplified by my Denon: The Denon running Audyssey the normal way and serving as an AVR, and the R-972 on Pre-Out to the Denon 4311's EXT. INs, which amplifies the results from the Sherwood. Think parallel systems, not a cascade. That's primarily to get the Denon's superior amp power, and avoid issues with the Sherwood's relatively weak built-in amps.
Re the Franken processor: that's more about bypassing the less than modern Sherwood audio and video processing, and use to use the SOTA Oppo 103 as a source manager/switcher, sending audio output on HDMI and LPCM to the R-972. The MIniDSP is part of that, as it helps give me not only multiple sub management, and add shelf filters for taming peaks (low end) and avoiding too high a speaker crossover for my tastes on the upper end of the sub response. Also, I can use the Auto EQ function in REW to help provide filters as "icing on the cake" to what I get from Trinnov for the subs. But the MInidSP is a greatly flexible tool in my setup - depending on how I have my pre-outs feeding into it (and which ones), I can choose not only to use my 10x10 HD to manage subs, but also provide some EQ and shelf filtering for my mains above and beyond the Trinnov from the R-972.
DK about your buzz issue, but I don't listen at anything like +20, and at any rate my R-972 isn't serving to amp anything directly.
Still, I hope you like your system as things stand otherwise...Trinnov IMO is worth the hassle, due to remapping helping to provide a much better surround bubble if you have less than ideal standard speaker positionings.Edited by sdrucker - 2/16/14 at 8:22am