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Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 31

post #901 of 2600
12/22/10 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John6002 View Post

This is a serious contender for me. Although the GUI is rather poor and there are delays with switching sources, Trinnov is a very desirable feature and there are S-Video inputs. How's the video upscaling? Can Trinnov replace the need for room acoutsical treatments? I love my B&K AVR 202 but need to upgrade to HDMI for my Oppo BDP83. My other choices are HK and Arcam or the new Anthems. Help!

Nothing can replace/beat room treatments I would urge you to put your $$ there first assuming you have WAF

972 is worth trying out in your room and seeing if (along w Trinnov) it makes a difference for you. While 972 is not feature rich with latest tech conveniences, once set-up it sounds great :-).

The set-up and convenience is subjective depending on what you would like to do with receiver and sonic impact for you.

I use an external amp but preferred overall sonics of 972 to 5308, Pio SC-09/07. This is based on my subjective impression and is not universal . I also bypass video (prefer native).

Also do try newer receivers as well.

FYI latest firmware has overcome handshake/audio drop-out problems. Sherwood support has been responsive.

I have the 972 longer than I owned the other receivers

$0.02

Cheers,
Kishore
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post #902 of 2600
12/25/10 at 8:32pm
Well, thanks for your comments about delays and dropoffs, which is rather discouraging (I would find that way too annoying). And as for the WAF, room treatments are not ever going to happen! So, good room correction software is my best hope. I am looking to upgrade from a B&K 202, which sounds good, but dialogue sometimes gets difficult to hear. Dolby Volume, etc. should certainly help with that.

I am also considering the new Anthem MRX series, but am bothered by digital only audio (no analog outputs to any zones) and lack of S-video inputs. I think my S-VHS could look pretty good with the current video processing chips (need 30 ft HDMI to my projector), so connecting via crappy composite instead of S-video cables makes no sense ("garbage in/ garbage out" is still relative, no?)

Any feel for how the Karman Kardon 7550 compares to the Anthems?
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post #903 of 2600
12/26/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John6002 View Post
Well, thanks for your comments about delays and dropoffs, which is rather discouraging (I would find that way too annoying). And as for the WAF, room treatments are not ever going to happen! So, good room correction software is my best hope.
WAF and treatments are not incompatible. At the very least, encourage her to decorate and put things on the walls. Drapes, objects, shelves... Anything that absorbs or diffuses is better than bare walls.
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post #904 of 2600
12/26/10 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John6002 View Post
Any feel for how the Karman Kardon 7550 compares to the Anthems?
I've tried out the 7550... loudest fans that came on within 10 minutes of power up.. and the video processing wasn't anywhere close to what other manufacturers are offering..

The Anthem's seem to be great... but why aren't you also looking at the Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha equivalents? Just curious...
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post #905 of 2600
12/26/10 at 12:15pm
John,

You will get multiple answers but you need to try receiver in your system and hear with your ears. There is no 'best' choice or 'wrong' choice here. I like vanilla but I am not going to state vanilla is for you in your set-up

For a simple HT set-up you seem to be looking for, you will not go wrong with any of the above mentioned brands IMHO.

~K
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post #906 of 2600
12/26/10 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

WAF and treatments are not incompatible. At the very least, encourage her to decorate and put things on the walls. Drapes, objects, shelves... Anything that absorbs or diffuses is better than bare walls.

This sitting room is as well-appointed as can be with carpeting, plush sofas and a curtain across the rear wall. Just can't put absorbing panels on walls at reflection points, or bass traps in corners, etc. The ceiling is very high and assymetrical, so I'm wondering how good it can get with digital processing alone (though it sounds OK now, I think?)
These forums lead me to believe that ARC and the newest Audyssey are "the best", so I would shy away from Yamaha and Pioneer who use their own systems. However, Arcam and HK also have their own equilization software ....
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post #907 of 2600
12/26/10 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John6002 View Post

This sitting room is as well-appointed as can be with carpeting, plush sofas and a curtain across the rear wall. Just can't put absorbing panels on walls at reflection points, or bass traps in corners, etc. The ceiling is very high and assymetrical, so I'm wondering how good it can get with digital processing alone (though it sounds OK now, I think?)
These forums lead me to believe that ARC and the newest Audyssey are "the best", so I would shy away from Yamaha and Pioneer who use their own systems. However, Arcam and HK also have their own equilization software ....

I have had great results with Audyssey and ARC but I have no experience with most of the others you mention. I thought the EQ in the ARCAM somewhat effective but significantly less so than Audyssey or ARC. Note, btw, that both of those come in several different levels of sophistication.
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post #908 of 2600
12/26/10 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I have had great results with Audyssey and ARC but I have no experience with most of the others you mention. I thought the EQ in the ARCAM somewhat effective but significantly less so than Audyssey or ARC. Note, btw, that both of those come in several different levels of sophistication.

And note that while ARC and Audyssey can produce fantastic results, they are very limited in regards to tweaking post measurement and calculation..

Pioneer and Yamaha's solutions are fully adjustable by the user (and each let you store more than one version of the correction at a time in the AVR...)

As one of the other posters noted, there are so many issues that someone needs to decide on...

Amp quality, video feature set, room correction, DSP type and tweak-ability, etc..

As I mentioned when I had the 972, it was a fantastic receiver... amazing, clean power, etc...

But the quality of the audio was overshadowed by some many issues at the time (and most I know are not resolved at this point,) poor usability, a diminished (in regards to their competition) feature set, mediocre video processing, etc, that I think there are other products that will counter the lack of Trinnov in the competition...

I can safely say I've owned/audition in my house almost every manufacturers "flagship" products from the last 2 years (Sherwood 972, Onkyo 5008, Denon 5308 and 4311, Yamaha Z11, Z7 and A3000, Pioneer SC-09 and SC-37..)

The notable exception is the Anthem AVR's... they look great.

None of them is perfect, but at this stage in the game, with a few notable exceptions, they are very close in terms of audio performance (outside of their respective amp sections.)

Good luck on your pursuit John... it's a fun one.
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post #909 of 2600
12/26/10 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

And note that while ARC and Audyssey can produce fantastic results, they are very limited in regards to tweaking post measurement and calculation..

Pioneer and Yamaha's solutions are fully adjustable by the user (and each let you store more than one version of the correction at a time in the AVR...)

Tweakability is a nice feature but, imho, less valuable for the typical user than the effectiveness of the fundamental EQ function.
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post #910 of 2600
12/26/10 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

And note that while ARC and Audyssey can produce fantastic results, they are very limited in regards to tweaking post measurement and calculation..

Pioneer and Yamaha's solutions are fully adjustable by the user (and each let you store more than one version of the correction at a time in the AVR...)

As one of the other posters noted, there are so many issues that someone needs to decide on...

Amp quality, video feature set, room correction, DSP type and tweak-ability, etc..

As I mentioned when I had the 972, it was a fantastic receiver... amazing, clean power, etc...

But the quality of the audio was overshadowed by some many issues at the time (and most I know are not resolved at this point,) poor usability, a diminished (in regards to their competition) feature set, mediocre video processing, etc, that I think there are other products that will counter the lack of Trinnov in the competition...

I can safely say I've owned/audition in my house almost every manufacturers "flagship" products from the last 2 years (Sherwood 972, Onkyo 5008, Denon 5308 and 4311, Yamaha Z11, Z7 and A3000, Pioneer SC-09 and SC-37..)

The notable exception is the Anthem AVR's... they look great.

None of them is perfect, but at this stage in the game, with a few notable exceptions, they are very close in terms of audio performance (outside of their respective amp sections.)

Good luck on your pursuit John... it's a fun one.

You should also try the Marantz 7005...it seems to be pretty stable...
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post #911 of 2600
12/26/10 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueKNB View Post


You should also try the Marantz 7005...it seems to be pretty stable...

For now I'm loving the 5008..... XT32 is the first version of Audyssey that I've been happy with.... Just with they would add Pro capability back into their line up...

It's got a great amp section, is feature packed and as stable as they come.
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post #912 of 2600
12/27/10 at 2:56pm
Tradeoffs are what this selection process is all about! Stability/reliability are key, mSo I'm getting good feedback here (goodbye Sherwood). But I'm also bothered by the lack of S-video inputs on some of these receivers, like Marantz and a few others. With video processing to upscale to the 1080p HDMI output, don't you think the picture would be better via S-video than composite? My S-VHS player is waiting to be resurrected!
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post #913 of 2600
1/6/11 at 3:58pm
I have had the pleasure of having both the Onkyo, and the Yamaha in my current system. I now have the 972. The Yamaha room EQ and the Onkyo Audyssey does not even come close to the room EQ in the 972. I have had very few issues with my 972 since the new firmware update. The audio drops during switching, but once I start watching a movie, I do not change my source. I have said it before, the thing the Trinnov does to the room is just amazing. I do have a dedicated room with the room EQed, so this may be apples to oranges. I would love to have an Anthem, but currently out of my budget. Hope this helps.
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post #914 of 2600
1/7/11 at 10:33am
the SN R-876 is coming out this year; msrp is only $1199 with Trinnov and DVDO Video processing; most likely this unit's trinnov should work better than the 972 ,which had problems; this could be a killer unit; especially at that price
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post #915 of 2600
1/9/11 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroit1 View Post

this could be a killer unit;


Yeah, that's what you were also constantly saying about their previous products before they actually became available, and we all know how that really ended up.... My advice with Sherwood, for anything new they may come out with, wait until it actually comes out and becomes readily available, and even then give it at least 3-4 months on the market before judging if it's any good or not
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post #916 of 2600
1/9/11 at 6:18am
^^
I've kept up with this thread for quite awhile, being very curious about Trinnov. Considering Sherwood's track record, you give sound (pun!) advice.

Being cautious is wise on the new model.
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post #917 of 2600
1/9/11 at 11:07am
Considering the R-972 was originally announced to be available in August 2007, I figure we'll see the 876 sometime in 2013.
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post #918 of 2600
1/10/11 at 4:25pm
Well this time they could be on schedule. Now that they have the Trinnov processing portion ironed out, they can just transfer that tech into the new unit. Getting a Trinnov to market was the hold up last time.
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post #919 of 2600
1/11/11 at 5:18pm
^Ah, a glass-half-full kind of guy. Hope you don't end up disappointed.
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post #920 of 2600
1/16/11 at 2:30pm
well I have the 972 now and I am fairly happy with it. My wife would say I am a glass mostly empty kind of guy I prefer realest.
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post #921 of 2600
1/19/11 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighifi View Post

Well this time they could be on schedule. Now that they have the Trinnov processing portion ironed out, they can just transfer that tech into the new unit. Getting a Trinnov to market was the hold up last time.

now it looks like Trinnov and HDMI 1.4 dont play nice. Outlaw Audio gave up on it.
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post #922 of 2600
1/19/11 at 1:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop32 View Post

now it looks like Trinnov and HDMI 1.4 dont play nice. Outlaw Audio gave up on it.

Trinnov works perfectly with any HDMI. It does not care.
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post #923 of 2600
1/19/11 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Trinnov works perfectly with any HDMI. It does not care.

Yes, why would it matter? HDMI is a transmission method, set of protocols.
Trinnov is post-processing, after the signal is transmitted from source to receiver/processor.

No connection (pardon the pun)

Internet rumors
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post #924 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop32 View Post

Outlaw Audio gave up on it.

I think, rather, that they gave up on one particular solution.
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post #925 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Trinnov works perfectly with any HDMI. It does not care.

are there any units with HDMI 1.4 and Trinnov on the market?
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post #926 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Yes, why would it matter? HDMI is a transmission method, set of protocols.
Trinnov is post-processing, after the signal is transmitted from source to receiver/processor.

No connection (pardon the pun)

Internet rumors

HDMI brings the digital audio signal to Trinnov. If the two dont play nicey-nice, no workie workie.
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post #927 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I think, rather, that they gave up on one particular solution.

fair enough.

Not trying to spread FUD here....

statement from Outlaw(looks like they are committed to Trinnov):

Quote:


  • Multiple 3D-Ready, HDMI 1.4 inputs and outputs, including a front panel jack for connection to digital cameras and camcorders.
  • On the audio side, Dolby Volume, Dolby PLIIz, high-performance DACs and balanced audio outputs.
  • Also on the audio side, our commitment to the Trinnov Optimizer has not changed. We have heard and evaluated Trinnov and assure you that it is the real deal: far ahead of any room correction system we have ever heard, at any price. With this new product, we will implement Trinnov so that it works the way it is meant to be used - and heard! Trinnov is fully on-board with our plan, and they are now exchanging details with our engineering teams.
  • On the video side, there will be state-of-the-art video processing and scaling when you want it, and full bypass when you don't. The interface and menu system will be straightforward, easy to use and powerful, all at the same time.
  • Direct USB software upgradeability without the need for direct connection to a computer or the need for any loader programs. You'll simply download the new software to a USB drive when needed, plug it into the front panel, and the processor will take it from there.
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post #928 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop32 View Post

fair enough.

Not trying to spread FUD here.... just pointing out that one manufacturer has stopped trying to implement Trinnov and HDMI 1.4 and has said as much. Maybe they were going about it in the wrong way, maybe there were other factors involved... who knows.

There were other factors. Wish I could say more.
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post #929 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

There were other factors. Wish I could say more.

also fair enough.

trust me, I want this product. I want a pre/pro or receiver with Trinnov.

I'm doing my best to hold out for one that does everything I want it to. I'm looking longingly at a Denon 4311 which fits the bill but for the Trinnov.

If someone comes out with a similar product with Trinnov, I'm first in line.
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post #930 of 2600
1/19/11 at 10:58am
So what are the odds (those who have insider knowledge, please give your best guess) that this new receiver will be what the 972 was supposed to be? Are these other factors able to be taken care of and a good product created?

I am in the process of researching new receivers, but have no need to buy one yet. I also want Trinnov...and I can wait to see if the 876 works. I REALLY hope it does...we NEED a new game changer!
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