Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 33

I would like to know as well.
as I am looking to replace my 10 year old sherwood, before I turn around to the competition

My review of the R-972 can now be found in the Summer issue of the BAS Speaker publication (volume 33). The issue is available as a paper copy or download. It is not available for free on the web at this time. Sherwood may produce reprints but I have now knowledge of if they will do this.

To find out how to purchase the issue from the Boston Audio Society contact them at the website. Sorry the AVSforum will not let me post URLs.

The publication of this review has been significantly delayed. The review was originally scheduled for Sensible Sound magazine but it discontinued publication. I though I had another magazine that would publish it last year but shortly before it was going to go to press they decided not to go forwarded. I had to start again with the BAS Speaker which has done a superb job of presenting the figures and text.

The review is positive. I identified no operational problems on the audio side including the Trinnov processor. 11 acoustic and electrical measurements are provided so you compare the performance of the R-972 to the measurements I made of the professional Trinnov product in its 1997 deployment. The text of the review of the professional Trinnov unit is on the web on the thefreelibrary website. Search for Trinnov

You need to purchase the back issue (Jan/Feb 1997 issue # 111) to see the figures. Back issues are available at the Sensible Sound website.

Obviously the Trinnov professional unit has evolved significantly from the 1997 version but if you look at the text of my 1997 review in Sensible Sound you can get a good idea of how well the 1997 worked objectively and subjectively. You will see the R-972 appears to be close to the professional unit if you gain access to both reviews.

You may also want to look at my 3 part article called "TVs? We don't need no Stinking TVs" at the SECRETS of Home Theater and High Fidelity website.

Trinnov and the R-972 are mentioned in this piece. You will learn why the Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player is a good choice to complement the R-972. The Oppo unit adds the latest functionality to the R-972.

David Rich

I am trying to set up outdoor speaker to room 2 or 3 and found out that the r972 does not support digital sources for room 2 or 3. Does anyone have a work around for this?

I have also emailed Sherwood support about this. I'll let you all know what I hear back.

Regardless of brand, virtually none of the AVRs support digital audio sources for multi-zone output..
The workaround is to simply connect the L/R analog audio outputs from each source component....


Just my $0.02...

Hi David...

I recall reading with great interest your review of the Trinnov studio unit. That was from 2007, not 1997, correct?

AJ

AJ

Yes I made a typo. 2007 is the correct date.

The Boston Audio Society also asked that I supply a little more information on how to purchase a copy of the issue with the R-972 review. Ask for B A S Speaker v33n2 (volume 33 number 2).

David Rich

Hmmm... what if a device does not have analog outs? Could I hook up a DAC on the digital monitor output of the 972 and send that to one of the analog inputs?

No but you could put the DAC at the output of a source device and feed it to an analog input of the 972.

I was hoping to avoid buying multiple DACs. Oh well. Any recommendations for a "good bang for the buck" DAC? Amazon seems to have a range from about $40 to $500.

Has anyone succeeded at controlling the r972 via the serial port? I am using the info from this document: http://www.sherwoodusa.com/pdf/Sherw...tocol(7th).pdf

I have sniffed the RS232 so I am sure that I am sending the proper commands but does not seem to work.

I have also sent an email to Sherwood support but given that I have not received a response to my earlier request I'm not sure if I'll hear back. I cced Stereo Jeff but it seems like he no longer works at Sherwood (his address bounced).

David, it is great to see you on this forum. I would hope you would continue participating when you see things of interest. I have been am admirer of your work with Sensible Sound, Audio Critic, and BAS.

I heard from Sherwood today about the rs232. The codes changed when they went to the Rx72 series. They sent me a file with the codes and I have been able to validate some of them. Hopefully Ill have time this weekend to program irule.

Randy

Thanks for your kind words about my work.

David Rich

The only way to build an AVR so room 2 (or tape recorder out) will send out both analog and digital signals (dual domain) for a different output than what is heard in the main room is expensive.

You need a new digital selector switch followed by an SPDIF receiver and then a DAC to convert the signal to analog. Chips that combine the function and thus lower the cost are just appearing. An example is the AKM AK4683. This chip does not have an HDMI receiver so you will still not be able to listen to HDMI on room 2.

David Rich

Set up a new R972 today and used Trinnov optimization. I'm impressed!

Coming from an Onkyo PR-SC5508 dedicated preamp, a very good unit, but I had tried an R-872 and on my Klipsch THX Ultra2's, the 872 it sounded better than the Audyssey calibrated Onkyo. I decided to look for a 972 with Trinnov.

The biggest difference and it's still set up not perfectly... yet, is the spatial presence. With Audyssey, I could (sort of) identify the speaker location. With Trinnov, I am surrounded with sound and can not hear "a speaker." Instead, they blend amazingly well!

Still playing with my new toy and I do miss some of the conveniences of the Onkyo, bit the sound quality of the 972 is by far superior.

Looking forward to further tweaking!

Has the unit gotten to a level where it is stable & bug free? I am wondering as to whats happening with R-876? Has it really been cancelled?

Mine has been operational for 3 days now, no handshake issues, no pops...yet.

Only issues: tried to extend the length of the Trinnov mic cord with an ethernet coupling and additional cable, threw off the Trinnov results. Also, need to run scaling at bypass for blu-ray player as it can't read upconverted 1080p signal from the player. With bypass, no problem.

The sound on this receiver is better than my previous Onkyo preamp and previous Marantz AV7005, not to mention the Trinnov calibration seems to do a better, more seamless job than the Audyssey XT32. I have 4 Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs with 2 Klipsch amps and the bass management seems comparable, possibly better than Audyssey XT32. Watched a movie last night and a few bass effects startled my wife and I.

My R972 is fine unless I use the room correction, then the bass drops dramatically. I have not been able to install the firmware, or to be exact, the person who helps me with IT and unlike me is quite computer competent, has been unable to install it. Is there anywhere I can find instructions to help him? Or even tell me if there is any way to get Sherwood to respond with some customer service?

The upgrade files, both firmware and subwoofer management are available on the Sherwood website. My firmware was already updated, however, I was unhappy with the bass. I downloaded and installed the file from my laptop with a USB to Serial cord to the R972. There is an excel file that takes you through the installation, I was able to install it from a Windows 7 64bit laptop.

Also, when I calibrate my R972, I set my subwoofer volume (at the sub) to about 30-35%, not the 50% setting recommended in the manual. After the calibration, I boost the sub volume to 50% to give my system a bit more bass, but remember that good bass is very subtle and flat and should blend seamlessly. I used to be guilty of playing too much bass simply to hear/feel my subs.

Hello All,

Anyone with an R-972 care to give an update? As many people chiming in as possible would be appreciated.

How about the "long term" owners out there; any word from y'all?

Have any Trinnov users been able to compare this system to the newer Audessy (32) versions?

Thanks in advance, Merry Christmas and happy New Year!!!

Hello,
Today, I just acquired a R-972 primarily due to my longstanding interest in Trinnov. Anyhow, before I took apart my current HT, I decided to program the Remote Control.

I started with my Comcast Cable Box that when going through the Presets did indeed turn off. However, only the Number Pad worked and the Navigation Arrows were not functional. I figured all I needed to do from there is Learn the missing Buttons, but after doing so, the RC locked up and I had to remove the Batteries to get it to work.

Upon calling S/N, I was told this was a known issue with DirecTV, but Sony and others would work fine. However, after attempting to Learn the missing Buttons to my Sony KDL-55EX500, while it did not freeze the Navigation Buttons were still not operative.

I have been sent out an Replacement Remote Control, but the Technician did not believe it would make any difference. I just cannot believe that an AVR that retails for $1800 would come with a Remote Control that would not allow for you to navigate any Menu whatsoever. I realize I am quite late coming to this party, but any insight would be greatly welcome. As it stands, the R-972 is still sitting on my Recliner.
Cheers,
AD

Hello,
It would seem I missed a page in the Owners Manual as only the DVD Input Selection allows for the use of the Arrow Buttons. However, I am still astonished that my OPPO freezes up when using the Learning Function.
Cheers,
AD

Hello,
I hooked up the 972 today and am beginning to think I might have a defective unit. I first ran the Trinnov Optimizer and set it to Audiophile, 3D Remapping, etc. I should point out that I am only using it as a Preamp due to my Speakers not being AVR friendly.

Anyway, after finishing the Optimizer, I was pretty surprised that I had to raise it to around 0db's to get even close to full sound. Figuring I did something wrong with Trinnov, I disengaged it and ran the Test Tones.

To my utter amazement, I could not get any Channel anywhere close to 75db's with the Test Tone Generator. Mind you, I am using an Aragon 8008bb and Parasound HCA-2205AT and on my Onkyo TX-NR3008 the highest Gain on any Channel is +6.

So I went ahead and hooked back up my Onkyo fearing if I waited too long I would have to run the XT32/SubEQ HT Calibration again. And as usual, I get room filling sound at -30db's and room shaking sound around -10.

This was an AVR that I have always been intrigued by. I even Posted my interest about this AVR on the 1st Page of this Thread almost 3 years ago. I so desperately wanted to love it. However, between the Remote Control being the least Universal of any AVR I have ever come across and the fact that at 0 and even +2db's it still did not get very loud, I am completely shocked and somewhat crestfallen. Trinnov makes so much sense and S/N has traditonally made quality products.
Cheers,
AD

Have you tried connecting a speaker to the 972?

Maybe your power amps' gain is much lower than those in the 972.

I cannot do it in good conscious with my Electrostatic Martin Logans I use for my 5.2 HT. However I do have a pair of non Electrostatic ML's (Montages) that I was actually going to hookup tomorrow morning. That is funny as it was the next step I was going to take.

While the Aragon is not the easiest Amplifier for a Preamp to drive, the Parasound is quite AVR friendly. I actually hooked up all 5 Channels to the 2205 after the initial result after preforming Trinnov.

Hello,
I gotta say, I do not know what I did wrong in my initial setup, but Trinnov is everything I thought it would be.

This morning, I did a complete redo of connecting the R972 and the results are astonishing. I still need to raise the Volume Level higher than on my TX-NR3008, but it really is something special. And this is coming from Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT.

I still think that the Remote Control is an embarrassment for a $1800 AVR. While the RF Capabilities are wonderful, not to be able to Learn key Buttons makes this the least Universal of the Universal Remotes I have ever used. And this is saying nothing of it freezing up when trying to learn the precious few Buttons that can be Learned. Also, only having 4 HDMI Inputs makes for tough decisions. Then again, this AVR was Designed 4 years ago and that must be taken into account. Back then, 4 HDMI Inputs was considered a generous amount.

However, at the end of the day, what really matters is the Sound and the Picture. In this respect, this is an excellent AVR. All I can say if you have not gotten one yet and are interested, I would factor in a Harmony 1 or the like in the calculus.

I have used MCACC, YPAO (only for a few weeks), Audyssey MultEQ XT, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and with the exception of YPAO, I have used these EQ's extensively and with Trinnov my HT has never sounded so alive.
Cheers,
AD

Also, to be clear, you bought a new unit or have a used unit updated to latest firmware?

Could you give a stab at what differences you hear from Xt32?

Hi All:

For those of you interested in some tips, I've posted some notes on using Trinnov in the R972. It can be found at

cahoyt (dt) com (sl)trinnov(sl) R972(us)trinnov(us)application(us)note(us)v1.0.pdf

Dot/slash/underscore as indicated, with no spaces, and you'll get there.

Happy Listening!

1/27/12 NOTE: New version added: cahoyt (dt) com (sl)trinnov(sl) R972(us)trinnov(us)application(us)note(us)v1.1.pdf

Searching back through Curt's posts led me to the Trinnov/Dirac thread. Great stuff.

I recently bought a R-972 for my new theater room, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting Trinnov to work properly. It has the 1.47I firmware. I have it connected to a Oppo BDP-93 and an Outlaw amp. The speakers are B&W 9NTs, CNT, and LM1s.

I ran the Trinnov set up multiple times with each listening position, but it would not detect the position of my left front speaker. It played the test tone for that speaker 10 times instead of 3. The measurements for the other speakers looked normal.

After a dozen or so tries, it finally located the left front. I let it run the calculations and set the Oppo input to use Trinnov. I tried listening to a few discs, but nothing sounded quite right. The center image was to the left of center.

I put in the Disney WOW disc and checked the levels. Trinnov set the left front 2db louder than the right front, which would explain why the center image was shifted to the left. I then ran some frequency sweeps and checked the response. The sweep for an individual speaker had a range of 10db when Trinnov was set to "flat".

Any tips on getting Trinnov to work better? I've read through this thread and saw some other people having trouble with the microphone position, but I thought the new firmware was suppose to fix that.