New DVDO iScan Duo [2.0 firmware released] - Page 45

Many thanks for your constructive advice.

Just tried outputting 4:4:4 and my 'Y' value of 100 IRE has risen from the ideal 42 Ft Ls (LCD) to 54 Ft Ls so something is definately happening.

Happy days.

FYI, to anyone with technical questions, I've got about 16 total emails back and forth with Ken, and he's a great guy.

Has been answering emails for a few hours in the afternoon.

Would the Duo be smart enough to pick the optimal output format by using the 'Auto' option?

Thanks prepress

I tried playing around with CMS last night and I noticed someting odd. I was adjusting grayscale and when I adjusted "too much" it seemed to make the image "unstable". If I brought back the adjustment and the gray became "solid" again. This was clearly visible in 10, 20 and 30IRE. I also noticed the image kind of became solid if a waited a while when the adjustment was close to "limit". This was not visible if I disabled CMS. I use Sony W4500 LCD television. What could cause this kind of behaviour?

Good point.

Just tried it and on my Toshiba LCD and it changes my current SD TV which inputs as 576p/50 Hz and RGB from my Sky STB to an output of YCbCr 444 rather than my previously chosen RGB.

So in my case the answer is Yes (if Ken is correct which I am sure he is).

I noticed a similar effect. With strong adjustments at IRE 10 to 30 I noticed banding and strange color effects over the whole grayscale, visible in grayscale test patterns. I deactivated the CMS and all these effects were gone. I posted this already but no one seemed to be interested.

I also mentioned awhile back that between the 10-30 ire range I had to be very careful tuning the grayscale once overdo anyone of them the next stimuli would be basically screwed to the point of missing green completely the first time I spent hours juggling between them and finally I had to settle on somewhat higher delta e so I didn't have to do factory reset again and again because the abnormally was so bad. I wrote that on this thread but no one seemed to have noticed.

I did see a little of what you three have seen in the 10-30 + CMS. But not to the extreme as you.

My question is have you reported it to Tech Support at DVDO? Could be helpful to get them in the loop.

Rew

Make sure your display brightness is set correctly before you adjust greyscale with the Duo. You don't have much control over the lower IRE's. The artifacts you see is common with any digital CMS if you over adjust.

Have you tried using the coordinates to adjust grayscale rather than R,G and B?
Only have to juggle with two.

Can the adjustments be used at the same time or are they just doing the same thing? I was thinking what those were because I was used to adjusting RGB. Are the coordinates the same for every stimulus (0-100IRE)(0.3127 and 0.329)?

Yes - coords are always the same. Also, you can adjust the white point via either mechanism - e.g. use RGB first, then adjust xyY etc.. However, I tend to find that using xyY and raw data in Chromapure is the quickest way.

I will try this too. What are the correct Y values for 2.2 gamma, might as well do it all at once.

I'm not suggesting its the only software its just that I find it so easy but look at 'Demos' on this website even if you use something else:

http://www.chromapure.com/default.asp .

These demos should cover most of the questions you ask.

Regarding 'Y' it depends on your Display. I have an LCD TV so I aim for a 'Y' value of about 40 - 42 Ft Ls on the maximum 100 IRE.
You don't need to know the ones in between because as you can see in the demos you adjust the 'Y' on the Duo down for an increase and up for a decrease (thanks Tom H.).

Normally you can start with 100 IRE and then 90 then 80 down to 10 IRE and it should give you chance to adjust even at 10 IRE as long as you don't have too high a gamma.
Then do your normal grayscale check and adjust to bring your average deltaE down (I find small changes are usually needed).

Have a go, if I can do it anyone can, however I found the R,G and B adjustment fiddly and uncertain. Coordinate method is precise and predictable.

Hope this helps

Is grayscale setting per output? I think I read that CMS is NOT, but wondering if at least grayscale is... I have 2 very different output (plasma and LCOS PJ), and they both had significant differences in grayscale setting that one set will not fit all.

Y doesn't have a fixed value for a particular gamma - it's measured as a relative (i.e. %) value of Y for 100IRE on your particular display.

You can download a really helpful calculator called "display calibration calculator". It's discussed here and can be downloaded at the bottom of this page.

Got it installed today. Great unit, easy menu, easy FW upgrade, and I have all native source inputs into the Duo, and it sending out exactly what my TV needs as an input signal. A lot of the Auto settings are great, and I love the auto input switching depending on whats on, and the auto on and off is very cool too.

One video HDMI to tv, and the audio HDMI is going to the Denon. No lipsync issues, HD audio passes fine, very good.

Thanks to Ken for answering my emails, thanks for this thread, and to Tom writing such a convincing review. I cannot wait until early Sept, when LionAv will be out to calibrate the display, then fine tune the CMS/Grayscale in the Duo.

Exactly my feelings when I got mine set up! Check out 1080i deinterlaced to 1080p on some TV show. It's really free of artifacts.

Ok, got a little issue with Directv playback. The Mpeg4 sat channels are working fine, but when playing back the mpeg 2 recorded with the OTA tuner, every 15-30 seconds there is a quick sputter, then it catches itself up, almost like a freeze.

Would this be something to do with the Mpeg2?

I still have the HR20 DRV so the Mpeg tuner is built in. But I don't pass audio or I don't use the audio passing through the Duo so I can't comment other than some days audio can be glitchy on directv. Especially on the mpeg2 OTA channels.

Good point shall email Ken formally.

Yes I also use the xyY. May be PJs are harder to work with? Anyway will have another go this weekend, got to squeeze in the hours! Thing is most of us would probably rather spend time with actual movies and golden hours for movies are so hard to come by when you do not have a dedicated HT room and kids in the house!

I know what you mean.

My 'HT Room' is a fond dream and the main living room is where my TV is situated. As you will probably know, getting anything standard for display purposes is impossible under these conditions.
Don't even have the size of room to justify the purchase of a PJ so my experience is zero with them.

However, from a time perspective, that is why I use the Duo for CMS because it is so quick and predictable (as you say time to do any calibration is limited for many reasons).
Gone are the days where the TV's 'Service Menu' was my only grayscale method and achieving a compromise between 'high end' and 'low end' controls was a test of patience which took forever.

It is rather disappointing because at the end of the day, JVC projectors are a very good reason for DUO purchases, particularly the lower JVC models in the range without CMS. So Anchor Bay should really step-up and look into this. I am sure they can borrow a projector from JVC and might be beneficial for sales of both products.

I have noticed on my LCD that when gamma is adjusted via Duo it remains somewhere near irrespective of actual IRE point accuracy.
My gamma was not flat originally and was really high at my low IRE's prior to attempting grayscale adjustment.

I know the purists would frown if gamma was done first on the workflow but if low IRE's present a problem why not ?

Bringing the lower points down to about 2.2 will not do any harm and certainly for my LCD they are then much more precise and predictable at that lower gamma when adjusted.

Perhaps this will help.

At first I thought it was an audio issue, but the video is freezing too, and it's only doing it on OTA recordings. Could be my EHD is having problems too. I'm gonna disconnect it and see what happens next week.

Totally agree, at least a compatibility list where potential purchasers can look at. But their marketing department will never accept this.


There is so many ways to get the EDID data from these JVC projectors -- lease, stores, etc. They can even send me an EDID recorder, or I can buy one and send the data...

Why do people think there is a problem with connectivity between the Duo and JVC projectors? My setup works great and changing to 24p is auto. What is the problem?

What HDCP problem? I have tried the Dup both with an RS-20 and now with an RS-35 with no *HDCP* problems, though there might be an EDID problem. Is this problem unique to the RS-15?

I have had HDCP problems in the past with JVC projectors, unrelated to the Duo...it turned out to be a simple cable issue...the JVC units are picky about which cables work and which don't, but there was never any kind of HDCP problem that I found with the Duo. As a matter of fact, I have had less HDCP issues in my system since I got the Duo. Maybe I am just lucky?

I also say that there might be an EDID problem, but as I said in an earlier post, I have always had issues when one "auto" circuit communicates with another "auto" circuit, so the problem might not have anything to do with EDID...I really don't know. Does anyone have any evidence that the so called EDID problem with JVC is actually an EDID issue and not an "auto circuit talking to auto circuit" problem?