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New DVDO iScan Duo [2.0 firmware released] - Page 112

post #3331 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Go here http://www.chromapure.com/demos.asp - top of page
and watch the autocal demo.
When you are done you will have an excellent understanding of how autocal works
And by BTW after autocal finds the best value for a parameter it is stored in the Duo
You can see these values by using the Duo Control Panel
These values are sent to your display which is now completely calibrated using the stored Duo values for gray scale and color.

Thanks for the info.
Have discontinued AutoCal from Calman due to too many inconsistencies, both GreyScale and CMS. Went back to Manual with better results.
Don't want to put out more monies, if I get no better results with ChromaPure's Autocal.
Would the Autocal complete in the time cycle of my i1Pro, or have to stop midway to take a Dark Reading?
post #3332 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Thanks for the info.
Have discontinued AutoCal from Calman due to too many inconsistencies, both GreyScale and CMS. Went back to Manual with better results.
Don't want to put out more monies, if I get no better results with ChromaPure's Autocal.
Code:
Would the Autocal complete in the time cycle of my i1Pro, or have to stop midway to take a Dark Reading?

The time needed by autocal depends on the computer and on the meter.
With my D3 Pro it is typically about 10-15 minutes

Can not comment on the i1Pro
post #3333 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Would the Autocal complete in the time cycle of my i1Pro, or have to stop midway to take a Dark Reading?

As far as I could recall my last autocal with i1Pro was completed in like 15 minutes or so, in my setting.

As for dark reading since if I am not mistaken you cannot pause autocal and use CP to take dark reading, I just continue regardless of whether there is a dark reading reminder.
post #3334 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Thanks for the info.
Have discontinued AutoCal from Calman due to too many inconsistencies, both GreyScale and CMS. Went back to Manual with better results.
Don't want to put out more monies, if I get no better results with ChromaPure's Autocal.
Would the Autocal complete in the time cycle of my i1Pro, or have to stop midway to take a Dark Reading?

I use both CP Pro and Calman 5 with Calman on Day setting and CP on Night.
No experience with the Spectro device but I use an OEM D3 for CP and a C6 for Calman. Incidentally the Calman recognises and can use the OEM D3 but the CP will only use the OEM D3.

With the Duo, Chromapure and Calman for me do a great job during Autocal in getting it 'somewhere near' both for grayscale and gamma as well as color gamut although results are never the same.
However if wildly adrift, (my troublesome blue), just repeating seems to work except in one case where my best result for blue autocal attempt was left as a massive Hue and Luminance change (in fact a different colour altogether).

Thanks to the fabulous Duo Control Panel the xy and Y controls soon retrieved the situation.

If no Control Panel this would have been a long process using the Duo remote.

However, I suppose I am saying that Autocal is a time saver in the same way as Duo Control Panel is a time saver (not its only virtue as you probably know).
post #3335 of 3835
I have updated the control panel to support saving of custom color presets on the Custom Test Pattern tab. To do this, input your desired custom color parameters, then click the small (+) button. You can then give a name to your color, and it will show up in the list. You can also export your list of colors, or import someone else's.

I envisage people creating a list of colors for certain pieces of calibration software, such as the ColorChecker colors used by Calman.

The console window has been replaced with a log view inside the panel itself; you can access this by clicking "Show log" at the bottom-right of the window.

You can find the updated v0.8 here.
post #3336 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post


Would the Autocal complete in the time cycle of my i1Pro, or have to stop midway to take a Dark Reading?

Don't sweat it. Read this short thread and see that my i1Pro didn't drift at all in three hours.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1323457
post #3337 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdehoog View Post

I have updated the control panel to support saving of custom color presets on the Custom Test Pattern tab. To do this, input your desired custom color parameters, then click the small (+) button. You can then give a name to your color, and it will show up in the list. You can also export your list of colors, or import someone else's.
I envisage people creating a list of colors for certain pieces of calibration software, such as the ColorChecker colors used by Calman.
The console window has been replaced with a log view inside the panel itself; you can access this by clicking "Show log" at the bottom-right of the window.
You can find the updated v0.8 here.

Many thanks Michael.

It will suit my needs perfectly.
post #3338 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Don't sweat it. Read this short thread and see that my i1Pro didn't drift at all in three hours.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1323457

I seem to remember one time, where I forgot to do the Dark Readings, due to me not noticing the Dark Reading Message in the bottom lower right hand corner of the ChromaPure I was using at the time. I was too busy concentrating on the calibration for about 2 hours. After doing the Dark Reading and going back to my calibrating, I noticed there was very little difference between the before and after.
Tom has now put the notice up on the screen to get your attention that the Dark Reading is due.
post #3339 of 3835
My Duo is giving me excellent results using 75% saturation as well as 75% Luminance patterns.

I had a need to use 75% saturation because of a Panel fault at 100% saturation but its effect has been dramatic.

Cheap Toshiba LCD CCFL, Duo, C6 meter and Spectracal Enthusiast.

I use Colorchecker because it does exactly that and results are as follows:

15th Nov Calman 2.2 gamma 75% saturation patterns.jpg 228k .jpg file

I think only the Cyan swatch may be a visible error and that is because of my Panel problem so even a 3D LUT calibration is unlikely to correct that.

Not sure of my facts here but perhaps using 75% sat patterns evens out the errors better in much the same way as we started using 75% Luminance ones.

I believe the advantage of Colorchecker is that it scientifically checks out the full Cube so interpolation is needed via 3D LUT's as well as via my Duo CMS.

I know at least one forum member gets better results than me with his Duo so its worth trying out.
post #3340 of 3835
I ran the advanced CMS with CP Pro and D3Pro on my LG55LH90 and found that this display is most accurate when calibrated at 100% saturation.
Colors and amplitudes are essentially dead on.

When I start on my Epson 3010 I think the story will be quite different.
post #3341 of 3835
Calman 5 AutoCal back to being used. Found the local University's spot lights, a mile across the lake, reflecting off my Matte Screen 55LHX, was affecting my calibration more than I would have thought. Now shut the curtains during calibrations. AutoCal's spikes and dips have now leveled out.
Still Manual Calibrate before the AutoCal.
100% also on my LGs.
post #3342 of 3835
100 %sat.pdf 578k .pdf file LH90ACM.jpg 21k .jpg file
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Calman 5 AutoCal back to being used. Found the local University's spot lights, a mile across the lake, reflecting off my Matte Screen 55LHX, was affecting my calibration more than I would have thought. Now shut the curtains during calibrations. AutoCal's spikes and dips have now leveled out.
Still Manual Calibrate before the AutoCal.
100% also on my LGs.

The LH90
calibrated with the kitchen lights on facing the display, CPPro, D3 Pro

Here a moderate amount of ambient light has virtually no effect on the calibration.
The display has 3 preset backlight settings accessible from the remote. The medium setting was used here.
I find these backlight presets have more effect on the calibration then ambient light.

BTW this was done without first calibrating the display by itself.
Thus the entire burden was left to autocal and the Duo.
Edited by catmother - 12/26/12 at 8:31am
post #3343 of 3835
Found best Gamma for the 55LHXs to be Low. With the 55LH90, same as you, on Medium.

Attached, the University lights - reflects off my Matte Screen and onto my ceiling. Lake refection may also enhance the effect. During the Summer, intermittent due to the trees blowing in the wind, but no leaves come the Fall, so straight in.

DSC00090.JPG 3946k .JPG file

Are you using On Panel, or Mounted on TriPod?
Have iScan Duos on my 2 55LHXs , and 55LV9500. Has made life a lot easier.
post #3344 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Found best Gamma for the 55LHXs to be Low. With the 55LH90, same as you, on Medium.
Attached, the University lights - reflects off my Matte Screen and onto my ceiling. Lake refection may also enhance the effect. During the Summer, intermittent due to the trees blowing in the wind, but no leaves come the Fall, so straight in.
DSC00090.JPG 3946k .JPG file
Are you using On Panel, or Mounted on TriPod?
Have iScan Duos on my 2 55LHXs , and 55LV9500. Has made life a lot easier.

On panel in contact mode.
Amazing that such a small amount of light affects your calibration.
Edited by catmother - 11/17/12 at 8:20am
post #3345 of 3835
Did Left, Right, Mid, then in between readings. All different on the 55LHXs, very little difference except the far Right on the 55LV9500. So moved Meter Off Panel to Tripod to even out the differences.
Tried the new ChromaPure last night with the i1Pro On Panel. Much better results this time, but still doing Greyscale tuning on the Gamma Screen after starting on the Greyscale Screen.
Wife away next week so will do the other 3 LGs. (Can only do mine while she's here.) Happy wife, happy life, sometimes! LG in her Loft for when she's on her Computer. LG in her Bedroom that stays on all night. Final LG in the basement for when she's doing laundry. Mine, when she irons the clothes, or soaking in the tub. Samsung in the Family Room while she's working in the Kitchen. Had to make sure NetFlix was available for all of them.

The Next day after calibrating with Tom's newest ChromaPure: Definitely it and the iScan Duo appear to be getting along better!

Installed and calibrated Expert 1 last night with the latest ChromaPure. Tom has changed something that he's not putting into his notes, because last night's calibration, despite still having to start on the Greyscale screen, and finishing on the Gamma screen, was a lot better result! Yellowish look is gone. Looks better in the sense that it appears more natural looking. Calman gives a great final PQ, but something about it seems a little too bright, almost like wife's Family Room Samsung that measures 9500K, yet my LG is reading 6500K? Got me - haven't dared go back to THX yet, in case it screws something up! Will probably try it when I go back upstairs.

I'm glad the softwares are getting progressively better! ChromaPure now has some new things not noted, that are making an appearance.

Going to swap out my iScan Duo for a Radiance XE, and see how that looks.
Edited by p5browne - 11/24/12 at 12:30pm
post #3346 of 3835
Hello all,

I am in the market for a video processor. I have Chromapure and a D3 Pro already and would really like to use the autocal ability. I am looking at two possible options. The iScan Duo and the Lumagen Mini-3D. I can grab a used Duo for around $650, and of course the Lumagen is around $1500.

My setup is as follows.

Xbox 360, Oppo 103, PS3, Dish 922 -- Onkyo PR-SC5508 -- Darbee -- Epson 6010

Does anyone have any advice for me, is there anything I would be missing if I went with the iScan Duo?

Thanks!
post #3347 of 3835
You would miss out on the 125 point CMS in the Mini3D if you went for the Duo (though it does have the more usual RGBYCM type CMS). This may or may not be so important depending on how linear your display's colour gamut is. I have a feeling that the Mini3D is more flexible in terms of scaling, cropping and Anamorphic stretch may be better, but I only have experience of the Edge and the Mini3D myself. I do know that Lumagen support seems much better than DVDO's support though which I consider a very important part of the package.
post #3348 of 3835
As a Duo owner I have never owned a Lumagen so perhaps I am biased.

As Kelvin says, depending on how linear your Display is the value of 125 point calibration may be not needed. Certainly I have no need for it.
Both allow Auto Calibration and I think the Lumagen will have steep learning curve compared to the easy Duo.

Regarding Customer Service, I have had no problems at all getting the advice I need, however despite having had mine since the very first Firmware I have not had a single hardware problem. Current firmware is rock solid.

I think they both offer what you are looking for, so perhaps your choice will come down to value for your money?
post #3349 of 3835
I think that is my struggle, value for the money. Like I stated a used Duo can be had for around $650, the Mini is hard to find used so new its around $1599. Almost $1000 more. I think for my use the Duo makes the most sense, it could certainly help me fine tune my system a bit more.
post #3350 of 3835
I have the Duo and previously had a Lumagen VisionHDP by Lumagen. I might have the name wrong it has been so long. Anyways, I love the flexibility and automation of the Duo but the Duo will most likely not have any more updates whereas the mini3D almost certainly will. I also think Lumagen has better scaling. Lastly, I have a JVC RS1... it natively has bad video noise. The HDP got rid of it beautifully. The Duo not so much. I love the Duo and it serves my needs, but if I was in the market now and didn't have the Duo but know what I know now, I'd get the Lumagen. As for me, I don't think difference is worth upgrading considering the loss I would take given what I paid for the Duo new.
post #3351 of 3835
Just installed the Radiance XE last night, replacing my Duo.
First impressions. XE Colour seems a little more solid. IRE Greyscaling see a more steady responce. CMS weird - have put in a support e-mail for why I get hesitations after clicking, to see the result.
The one Composite input I have from the Dual Tuner Dishnet Receiver, was able to tweak to almost looking like HD. (Wife has the HDMI Input going to her TV)
Will be trying out the 125 Point tonight.
XE has 2 less Inputs then the Duo, but for what I have in my system, worked out for the Inputs. (For now.)

Hesitation corrected. Changed Output to 4:2:2.
For 125 Point AutoCal, or Autocal, the manually calibrated values for 100IRE, should be Reset back to 0,0,0 before starting the Auto. Works a lot better.
Will have to try the 0,0,0 100IRE on by iScan Duos to see if that stabilizes them from their erractic behaviour.
Edited by p5browne - 12/9/12 at 7:53am
post #3352 of 3835
For cabling convenience, I want to pass the HDMI video of a Mac Mini through the Duo to a Sony monitor. When I connect the Mini directly to the monitor via HDMI, it work fine. But the monitor doesn't see the Mini when passed through the Duo. The only other signal the Duo is processing is the output of a DirecTV HD-DVR. The Duo sends output to a Sony projector and to the monitor. Is there a setting I need to change to pass through the output of the Mini through the Duo to the monitor?

db
post #3353 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

For cabling convenience, I want to pass the HDMI video of a Mac Mini through the Duo to a Sony monitor. When I connect the Mini directly to the monitor via HDMI, it work fine. But the monitor doesn't see the Mini when passed through the Duo. The only other signal the Duo is processing is the output of a DirecTV HD-DVR. The Duo sends output to a Sony projector and to the monitor. Is there a setting I need to change to pass through the output of the Mini through the Duo to the monitor?
db
The Duo has two HDMI video outputs and on HDMI audio only output.
Are you using the correct ones ?
post #3354 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Just installed the Radiance XE last night, replacing my Duo.
First impressions. XE Colour seems a little more solid. IRE Greyscaling see a more steady responce. CMS weird - have put in a support e-mail for why I get hesitations after clicking, to see the result.
The one Composite input I have from the Dual Tuner Dishnet Receiver, was able to tweak to almost looking like HD. (Wife has the HDMI Input going to her TV)
Will be trying out the 125 Point tonight.
XE has 2 less Inputs then the Duo, but for what I have in my system, worked out for the Inputs. (For now.)

I also replaced my Duo with a XE3D and agree with you. I also have had great results with the 125 point CMS. There are tons of options in the Lumagen that I have not even tried yet which can handle very complex setups. SJ
post #3355 of 3835
Catmother writes, "The Duo has two HDMI video outputs and on HDMI audio only output. Are you using the correct ones ?"

The reason for the cabling convenience is that a cable already runs from the Duo to the monitor I use when I want to watch DirecTV HD-DVR output without firing up the projector. That output works just fine for DirecTV, but I don't see the Mini. I suspect it's a setting in the Duo that causes the problem.

db
post #3356 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

I also replaced my Duo with a XE3D and agree with you. I also have had great results with the 125 point CMS. There are tons of options in the Lumagen that I have not even tried yet which can handle very complex setups. SJ

How are you measuring your 'Great results using 125 point CMS'?

Do you have any before and after results?

For instance the Colorchecker in Calman 5 does exactly that and here is one of my Calibrations using a Duo.

Dec 4th 20112.jpg 239k .jpg file

Please note I use 75 / 75 patterns because my blue will not fully saturate or adjust properly its hue so improvements with 125 are unlikely.

Average dE 2000 is probably about 0.5 and highest dE is the Cyan at 2.31 (unlikely to improve with 125 point CMS because of blue problem).

I think that many displays are quite linear if you find its 'sweet spot' of suitable patterns to calibrate with.
Edited by PE06MCG - 12/9/12 at 1:57am
post #3357 of 3835
Every Panel has it's pluses and minuses. 125 Point Calibration does a far better leveling of the viewing field than just 11 Point. One of the screens in Calman 5, has you doing a continuous reading around the panel, until you find the Highest value. This is were you calibrate. I found quite a bit of difference between various parts of the Panel. I didn't bother going up and down, just slid the tripod and Meter across the panel, then fine tuned it to get the exact highest point.)
Just finshed 125 Point on my LG 55LHX last night, and after a few false starts (100IRE was wacky), found you have to remove the calibrated 100IRE values, and put back to 0,0,0, before starting the Auto.
Fiinshed PQ, has never been this close to perfection before with this TV. Darbee inline gives it just enough punch to make me more than happy with the results.

Next step in the calibration agenda - cover all those nasty, glaring LED.s, and cover over the laptop before doing the next AutoCal.
Edited by p5browne - 12/9/12 at 8:08am
post #3358 of 3835
Lest I offend the avid calibrators in this and the CP thread let me point out there is more to the Duo than a calibration device.

I acquired the Duo as a video processor, calibration was secondary. My last calibration was six months ago using CP Pro and D3 Pro and the Golf tournaments recorded then on the TIVO look every bit as pure as today's broadcasts., i.e the grass is every bit as sparkling green.

OTOH some of my Laserdisks are so poorly authored as to be unwatchable. In particular Bloodsport suffers constantly shifting colors.
The Duo completely removes those faults even using the composite output from the Pioneer laserdisc player rendering the movie watchable.

I was an early adopter of the RCA DSS, now known as D* circa 1999. Compared to the then Southwestern terrestrial analog cable here in San Diego the digital satellite was a revelation. Cable gave new meaning to the old adage NTSC never the same color. Every cable channel had different colors, the satellite was consistent..
I recorded a number of movies from the satellite to a Super-VHS VCR. Old timers may recall that S-VHS resolution at around 400 lines was superior to a VHS VCR at about 220-230 lines, about akin to the non-progressive DVD's of that era.

The Duo converts the S-VHS VCR output from the S-video output of my VCR to a relatively pristine 1080/60 to my LG 55LH90. Sigourney Weaver in Alien never looked that good, no need to buy BR copies now.

Last but not least, 80 years a go my father bought a 8 mm B/W film camera and started to record his growing family. These films were recoverd when my mother died and my brrother-lin-law in the UK with help from a professional restoration house converted the video to DVD. I have all those.

Image the thrill watching my self at age 5 on a tricycle, my oldest sister in my Mothers arms and subsequently watching my three sisters and brother growing up.
My father acquired a color 8mm camera about 10 years later and there are many segments filmed in Curacao, birthday parties with the kids and friends.
The Duo does it best with this material and while hardly HD er even SD it is a pleasure to watch this family history.

All this material is stored on a WHS and transmitted via a 1Gbs hardwired line to 2 media players, a Dune H1 and a NeoTV550.

Also the Duo has about 20 inputs and outputs, counting the optical in/out. In my HT all but one Component input is in use, too many source devices here.

Last, the TIVO allows the user to set the recorder to pass the incoming signal un-altered, the equivalent of source direct. So even the Encore channels, mostly 480,enjoy the full power of DUO video processing.

So what is your experience ?
post #3359 of 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

How are you measuring your 'Great results using 125 point CMS'?
Do you have any before and after results?
For instance the Colorchecker in Calman 5 does exactly that and here is one of my Calibrations using a Duo.
Dec 4th 20112.jpg 239k .jpg file
Please note I use 75 / 75 patterns because my blue will not fully saturate or adjust properly its hue so improvements with 125 are unlikely.
Average dE 2000 is probably about 0.5 and highest dE is the Cyan at 2.31 (unlikely to improve with 125 point CMS because of blue problem).
I think that many displays are quite linear if you find its 'sweet spot' of suitable patterns to calibrate with.

You might be right. Your Duo outcome appears better than my XE with the 125 Point!
Will re-check the XE in my room, up against the Duo in my wife's.
post #3360 of 3835
Acceptable results from 125 point vs the Duo's 11 point is dependent on the display. Below are screenshot of before and after calibrating with the Duo at 75/75.


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