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New DVDO iScan Duo [2.0 firmware released] - Page 114

post #3391 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Once you go 125 Point 3D LUT, you'll never go back! The results are a more natural looking PQ. Full screen Colour and Grayscale patterns look more like silk, the graininess is gone! Skin colours aren't just great looking skin colours, now they have all the subtlies of different colours, shades and detailling! I'm amazed at how good my set looks now. When you're watching anything with water, it looks so real now, you expect to find the floor beneath your TV to be wet, if not soaking wet!
Watched `Into the Wild' Blu-ray last night - check out Hal Holbrook - his facial features are just unbelievablely real!
Asked about the 125 Point for the Duo - negative - but competitive forces have a habbit of causing change!

Well here are my Colorchecker results:

You will note the facial dE's are well below the visible threshold as indeed are other points.

ColorChecker 25.10.12.jpg 121k .jpg file

Seems it depends on the linearity of your Display or how hard you try to find where it gives best linearity..
I grant it is easier to just rely on 125 point but I honestly believe checking a different % saturation calibration will give results that cannot be improved upon by using 125 point calibration.
Edited by PE06MCG - 12/23/12 at 8:45am
post #3392 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

That's not exactly what I mean. I know it's possible to pick a point like 75%Sat/75% Bright to calibrate. What I'm wondering is what is the possibiltiy that the Duo might support multiple saturation points simultaneously. I want to be able to calibrate the 75% point AND the 100% point simultaneously, straightening out the non-linearity of my display. I know the Duo can not now do this. It would be nice to hear that some sort of multi point CMS is planned, even if it isn't a full 125 point calibration. Like I said, I'd be happy with two points per color.
Thanks though!

Sorry, I misunderstood.

In Calman you can have 25% or 20% sweeps so it might be worth trying out the 80% or 60% ones rather than just 100% or 75% saturation (if that's possible). I know the Duo Control panel could certainly show these patterns so calibrating there may be possible (not technically aware so I may be 100% wrong with that statement)..

Regarding DVDO's intentions it may be difficult for them to cram any more onto the chip they use, but who knows?
It certainly seems that they are continuing development after the Silicon Image takeover (see v 2.40 firmware), and they now are back with their own website as DVDO so I have a lot of confidence for the future.

I was just making the point that depending on your display 125 point calibration may be unnecessary, it certainly would not help me.
I realise some displays are not linear no matter what you try but the impression is that non linearity is the norm which I obviously dispute.
post #3393 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post


I grant it is easier to just rely on 125 point but I honestly believe checking a different % saturation calibration will give results that cannot be improved upon by using 125 point calibration.

This needs answering even if it is off topic. The more points, the better the calibration. The 125 point profile produces a 64x64x64 LUT and it is better than any internal processing. A LightSpace 17 point profile (4913 color points) produces a 65x65x65 LUT and is better than the 125 point profile.
post #3394 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

This needs answering even if it is off topic. The more points, the better the calibration. The 125 point profile produces a 64x64x64 LUT and it is better than any internal processing. A LightSpace 17 point profile (4913 color points) produces a 65x65x65 LUT and is better than the 125 point profile.

Thanks Buzz,

How much of this 'improvement' can be seen?

I admit I did not include this in my original statement. and I am just using my own experience on my own display.
post #3395 of 3834
Here's what I'm trying to fix:



As you can see, no Single point calibration is going to fix Red or Green. Now, the picture from this still looks pretty darn good. However, even a 2 point per color calibration would be a huge improvement; obviously more would be better yet. Given the price of the Duo, a 2 point per color option would make it very attractive. 4 points per color would be better yet. I'm sure that hardware wise it's not going to able to do 125 points, but it would still be a great price/performance ratio if it could at least do 2 points per color. It seems to me that the hardware could do that is the firmware was there... But if they have no plans to add this I'll save my pennies for a Lumagen.
post #3396 of 3834
All I can say is that if I use 100% saturation patterns to calibrate, my colours are out significantly at all 25/50/75 and 100% saturation values not unlike your chart.

When I use 75% saturation patterns I get excellent improvement throughout the whole of the gamut ie 25/50/75 and though 100% Blue is out (because of my Panels blue problem at 100% saturation) the average dE2000 throughout the whole of the gamut cube as measured by Colorchecker is less than 1.0.

Maximum dE is about 1.5.

As you know Colorchecker requires interpolation for all its colour patterns even when using 125 calibration so is a fair comparison.
It may even need some interpolation when using the device Buzz mentions that goes beyond 125 points.

I discovered this advantage via CP's Advanced Color Management and tested its results via Calman Colorchecker.

Sorry if I still misunderstand your point.
Edited by PE06MCG - 12/24/12 at 6:27am
post #3397 of 3834
Is there any way to quickly switch between the ISF profiles? The P1 button on the remote does nothing when an ISF profile is in use; only works when the regular day/night is in use, and even then only alternating between the regular profiles.
Edited by Greg1981 - 12/24/12 at 12:51pm
post #3398 of 3834
Probably not with the remote but have you tried with Duo Control Panel open?

You can directly select any profile that way but admit i've not tried it yet.
post #3399 of 3834
If i have a processor like integra dhc 80.3, in terms of image quality And ONly in these terms, Will i have a better image with This equipment
post #3400 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Probably not with the remote but have you tried with Duo Control Panel open?
You can directly select any profile that way but admit i've not tried it yet.

Thanks for the reply. I haven't had the opportunity to use the Duo Control utility yet. It just seems strange they'd miss that. As it exists now, to use the ISF profiles I'd have to go into the CMS menu and select it, and then quit those menus. A lot of button presses to just change from ISF Day to ISF Night. It may not be an issue if you live in Nightmute, Alaska; otherwise it's incredibly clunky. Right now their only use to me is as a reference backup. I'd rather just copy the settings to the regular Day/Night profiles and have the flexibility to switch quickly, which at least still works if you're using the regular CMS modes. It would have been a lot better if you can switch through all four profiles with a press of the button.
Edited by Greg1981 - 12/24/12 at 4:06pm
post #3401 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashalc View Post

If i have a processor like integra dhc 80.3, in terms of image quality And ONly in these terms, Will i have a better image with This equipment

It depends on your display (how effective its CMS is) and what kind of content you plan on viewing. While I'm not familiar with that Integra, if your display has advanced picture controls and they operate properly (which often isn't the case) and you watch mostly blu-ray at 1080p, it probably isn't worth it.

EDIT: Just took a quick look at your receiver. It's unlikely you'll see any substantial difference in scaling/deinterlacing, so you'll need to provide some more info about your display and your issues with it before I or anyone can give you a more informative answer.
post #3402 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1981 View Post

Is there any way to quickly switch between the ISF profiles? The P1 button on the remote does nothing when an ISF profile is in use; only works when the regular day/night is in use, and even then only alternating between the regular profiles.
post #3403 of 3834
LHi Ken

You are welcome. If possible can individual P buttons be added for each mode. I think it would be better then one that scrolls. I also tried to do a auto calibration with the latest version of Calman 5 and unfortunately the only modes available to calibrate we're only the original Day and Night mode.
I guess this might be a question for Spectracal but do you know if it will be available soon?

Thank you



Sent from my iPad

On Dec 14, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Ken Nguyen wrote:

Hi Nelson,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. This was an oversight and we will correct this soon.
In the meantime, the ISF modes can be selected from the menu system or with serial commands.

Regards,

Ken Nguyen * Support Engineer *
Silicon Image, Inc. * 1140 East Arques Avenue *
Sunnyvale, CA 94085 * USA *
Tel: +1 408-616-4147 * Fax: +1 408-616-6398 *
* www.dvdo.com *



Original Message
From: Nelson Albino [mailto:n.albino@icloud.com]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:28 PM
To: Ken Nguyen
Subject: Re: DVDO firmware V2.40

Hi Ken,

I updated to the new firmware. How do I select the different profiles on the remote? The P1 button is not responding.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 14, 2012, at 5:41 PM, Ken Nguyen wrote:
post #3404 of 3834
^^^^i played with the p1 button a few days ago. in my experience, my profiles do in fact change(only day and night), but the OSD does not pop up in the corner to reflect which mode you are in. But as others have pointed out, i cannot toggle into the ISF profiles via the remote either.
post #3405 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD MAN View Post

On Dec 14, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Ken Nguyen wrote:
Hi Nelson,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. This was an oversight and we will correct this soon.
In the meantime, the ISF modes can be selected from the menu system or with serial commands.
Regards,
Ken Nguyen * Support Engineer *
Silicon Image, Inc. * 1140 East Arques Avenue *
Sunnyvale, CA 94085 * USA *
Tel: +1 408-616-4147 * Fax: +1 408-616-

Thanks for letting them know. Hopefully they'll release an update (relatively) soon.
post #3406 of 3834
It is my good fortune to own an exceptionally color linear display.
A three year old LG 55LH90, LCD LED backlit with local dimming.

After calibration a check with CP Pro, D3Pro using advanced CMS this is the result
LH90ACM-1.jpg 21k .jpg file

Note that all saturation levels, 25, 50, 75 and 100% are nearly spot on, I could not wish for better performance.

My procedure:
Gray scale calibration uses the LG built in 10 point gray scale pattern generator. These are fulll field patterns to eliminate Local dimming effects on the calibration since I leave local dimming on. With the Duo CMS disabled I measure 100 % to establish the Gamma point.
Next I measure 90 to 10% and examine the Gamma and I adjust green at each point, raise or lower green to get all Gamma points on the 2.2 line, adjusting R and B along the way to reach a DE of 2 or less. This procedure is repeated one or more times to eliminate the interaction effects.

Next we enable the Duo CMS and use CP Pro and the D3 Pro to run autocal to get HSL calibrated again with 100% stim, full fields and 100% sat patterns.
The result is attached here also:
100 %sat.pdf 578k .pdf file

The whole procedure takes about three hours.

Follow this up with the advanced CMS check as shown above and we are done.

If this looks good I play one or more PGA tournaments recorded on the TIVO and see if the grass is still green, the golf balls still white and the mountains behind Phoenix still the dirty rusty brown and the players garb looks realistic.

And once again, note that though my calibration uses 100% sat patterns a truly linear display will generally show the Advanced CMS line up as expected but if there is a deviation one can always use 75% sat patterns.
post #3407 of 3834
Although I have followed this thread for years and have owned one for as long; would like to know how well Duo 3D passtrough works as my next pj will have that capability. Am on the latest fw 2.40.

Thanks
Rew
post #3408 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post

Although I have followed this thread for years and have owned one for as long; would like to know how well Duo 3D passtrough works as my next pj will have that capability. Am on the latest fw 2.40.
Thanks
Rew

It works perfectly without a hitch.
post #3409 of 3834
Oh Good! Thanks for the confirmation.

I was hoping it would work. I am looking at the new Benq W1070 and / or Optoma HD33.

The Benq is just releasing and reports are still coming in how well it works but sounds promising; were the Optoma is a mature prroduct....

Oh Well we shall see.

Thanks again
Rew
post #3410 of 3834
I can also confirm that 3D pas through works with the Duo even with the last firmware. I have been using it for over a year.
post #3411 of 3834
Just went to update to 2.40 and noticed there is no update for mac users. Any chance one will be released or has DVDO stopped releasing updates for mac users?
post #3412 of 3834
If you select the night or day mode you can toggle with the P1 button between them.
The problem when is when you select any of ISF Modes in the menu set up you cannot toggle using the P1 at all.
I hope they put individual buttons for all modes.
post #3413 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Once you go 125 Point 3D LUT, you'll never go back! The results are a more natural looking PQ. Full screen Colour and Grayscale patterns look more like silk, the graininess is gone! Skin colours aren't just great looking skin colours, now they have all the subtlies of different colours, shades and detailling! I'm amazed at how good my set looks now. When you're watching anything with water, it looks so real now, you expect to find the floor beneath your TV to be wet, if not soaking wet!
Watched `Into the Wild' Blu-ray last night - check out Hal Holbrook - his facial features are just unbelievablely real!
Asked about the 125 Point for the Duo - negative - but competitive forces have a habbit of causing change!

Me too................Also change the firmware to allow 125 point CMS calibration.

Come on Silicon Image, you know it makes sense smile.gif
post #3414 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Me too................Also change the firmware to allow 125 point CMS calibration.

Absolutely. Something more than it has now. The 125 point cal would be great, but even something less would be a huge improvement for a lot of people. 25 point, white and 4 points per color would be great. At the very least, two points per color would be a big jump over most display's one point per color CMS. The hardware has to be capable of something more than 1 point per color.
post #3415 of 3834
I also join the prayers for an increased number of calibration points for our beloved DVDO Duo.
post #3416 of 3834
I am in the market for a DVDO or a Lumagen. I'm trying to not do anything crazy until CES is finished in the event there are any new product announcements. My desire for immediate satisfaction is conflicting with my rational thinking.

I'll just keep reading posts.
post #3417 of 3834
Does the Duo remember CMS data for multiple displays?

I had done the auto-cal on saturday for nighttime CMS but never backed up my data, but I had a picture of the data from my PC screen.
Sunday when i turned everthing on all the CMS data was zero, but I relalized that the DUO, for some reason, thought I had a different display. I turned everything off and then back on and then the DUO had the correct display listed. I then checked and the CMS data was there. So I then backed it up in case something else happened plus I did the daytime auto cal. Has this happened to anyone else before? Jst curious since it has spots for CMS day/night and ISF CMS day/night. So if it also keeps it for multiple displays too it seems like it might be possible to have more auto cal points of color. It would certainly be nice.

I've had my DUO since they were first released and it's nice that I'm still able to get alot of use out of it. I only wish I could have picked up a second one. I sold my VP50pro, around one week before they started having the even trade for a DUO. If I had waited I could have picked up a second DUO instead of selling my VP50 pro for only $550 two years ago..
post #3418 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Does the Duo remember CMS data for multiple displays?

It did when I tested it a few months ago. According to what member pmunger69 posted above from an email notice he received when the new firmware was released:
Quote:
With this new release, the iScan Duo now features four CMS profiles for each of its two outputs: Day, Night, ISF Day, and ISF Night. Note that the iScan Duo can store all Output Setup settings for up to ten displays. With four CMS profiles, iScan Duo can store up to 40 unique CMS profiles.

I've managed to switch profiles when using a harmony remote programmed with discrete Day/Night codes (for example, switching from ISF Night to regular Night profile, which wasn't possible with the P1 button and latest firmware). Does anyone have the hex codes for ISF Day and ISF Night?
post #3419 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Anyone can do it.
My way would be to unlock ISF then calibrate, then lock.
This then protected unless deliberately unlocked again.
It can be selected but not changed unless deliberately unlocked.

Ive managed to unlock the ISF settings, the question is, how do you lock them again?
post #3420 of 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Ive managed to unlock the ISF settings, the question is, how do you lock them again?

Do exactly the same (ie press 'enter' button for a few seconds) or if you prefer, switch Duo off then on again..
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