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New DVDO iScan Duo [2.0 firmware released] - Page 117

post #3481 of 3665
1/21/13 at 9:38am
Another possible stupid question. I have the Panasonic VT50, and the Iscan duo. I also have Calman 5 Control license.
I just did an Autocal with the Iscan hooked up via serial cable to my laptop. After having Autocal sett the grayscale, I get to setting the CMS, and when I press the DDC button, I get several screens to show up, one being a 3D LUT screen with a Red Box (it is checked), a Green box (not checked) and a Blue box (also not checked). I checked the Green and Blue Boxes, then clicked on the button below that said "clear 3D settings". Then I pressed the "commit " button next to the "clear settings" button.
Then I began to do an Autocal of the CMS. The Duo spent almost 25 minutes just calibrating white, and I wasn't entirely sure it wasn't stuck in a loop. I stopped it, and just reran the Autocal for CMS. It does a complete CMS Autocal in about 8 minutes.
What did I access when I hit the Commit button on the DDC screen? Was the software trying to do a 125 point CMS calibration, although I've read here that is not available to us Duo users?
Anybody have any idea what the "Commit" button does?
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post #3482 of 3665
1/21/13 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

Another possible stupid question. I have the Panasonic VT50, and the Iscan duo. I also have Calman 5 Control license.
I just did an Autocal with the Iscan hooked up via serial cable to my laptop. After having Autocal sett the grayscale, I get to setting the CMS, and when I press the DDC button, I get several screens to show up, one being a 3D LUT screen with a Red Box (it is checked), a Green box (not checked) and a Blue box (also not checked). I checked the Green and Blue Boxes, then clicked on the button below that said "clear 3D settings". Then I pressed the "commit " button next to the "clear settings" button.
Then I began to do an Autocal of the CMS. The Duo spent almost 25 minutes just calibrating white, and I wasn't entirely sure it wasn't stuck in a loop. I stopped it, and just reran the Autocal for CMS. It does a complete CMS Autocal in about 8 minutes.
What did I access when I hit the Commit button on the DDC screen? Was the software trying to do a 125 point CMS calibration, although I've read here that is not available to us Duo users?
Anybody have any idea what the "Commit" button does?

You want to do the standard CMS calibration. The Duo doesn't support the 125 Cal. The commit button is also not needed for the DUO when doing AutoCal..
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post #3483 of 3665
1/21/13 at 5:53pm
Very happy to report we were able to watch both games (plus fun stuff during half times and long commercial breaks) without a single issue. With 2.32. smile.gif
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post #3484 of 3665
1/26/13 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Actually this particular Duo was brand spanking new in December. I plan to further test shortly. HDMI can be so touchy it is crazy.

I've had my Duo for a little over a year, I'd found the HDMI handshaking to be VERY troublesome until 2.32 came out which appeared to resolve the issues with minor exceptions, when 2.4 was released I updated hoping that it would fix those few occassions when my projector still would not handshake but now I'm back to constantly having to restart my projector to get it to do the initial handshake, it looks like I will have to go back to 2.32, I left a message on DVDO's web site but haven't had a response yet
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post #3485 of 3665
1/26/13 at 4:16pm
Ugh. I just got my duo back fixed on warranty and was really hoping it had become more reliable. I used to have the same handshake issues and got so tired of it I replaced it with a 50 dollar switcher and never regretted it.
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post #3486 of 3665
1/27/13 at 2:36am
I'm not using a projector, but I haven't seen the handshake screen (are you getting that?) in a while. Turn-on sequence seems to matter in my case. I'm running 2.30, it should be said, and my setup is likely simpler than many here.
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post #3487 of 3665
1/27/13 at 4:32am
Dvdo. Has been reconnected for about 2 days and no handshake yet. My setup is definitely very complex - plasma + projector. Virtually all inputs used...
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post #3488 of 3665
1/27/13 at 4:33am
Meant to say "no handshake issues yet. Working great so far"
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post #3489 of 3665
1/27/13 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adanny View Post

Meant to say "no handshake issues yet. Working great so far"

what firmware are you on ?
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post #3490 of 3665
1/27/13 at 10:13am
V2.32
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post #3491 of 3665
1/27/13 at 5:41pm
The handshake issues I believe is equipment related as well.

I used to have a Panny BD-30, no shake issue whatsoever worth mentioning, now that I have an Oppo 105, I now experienced on multiple occasions no video/picture, and essentially I'm left with just a static screen for 10 seconds or so, not even switching between sources. The Games of Throne Season 1 disc was the most obvious one of all. Other than the change of BD player, no changes were made, including the DUO’s FW.
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post #3492 of 3665
1/27/13 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adanny View Post

V2.32

oh ok, that firmware i find quite stable.
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post #3493 of 3665
1/28/13 at 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by breadvan View Post

The handshake issues I believe is equipment related as well.

I used to have a Panny BD-30, no shake issue whatsoever worth mentioning, now that I have an Oppo 105, I now experienced on multiple occasions no video/picture, and essentially I'm left with just a static screen for 10 seconds or so, not even switching between sources. The Games of Throne Season 1 disc was the most obvious one of all. Other than the change of BD player, no changes were made, including the DUO’s FW.

I agree with this but as Joe said the v2.32 was more tolerant than v2.40 for his particular setup so he uses the one without problems.

I have no problems at all with v2.40.

Keeping all new hardware speaking to all other pieces of equipment must be a full time job for manufacturers.

HDMI seems to have been designed to have a default value that excludes communication with all other devices which is a strange way to develop a method of connecting hardware to each other.
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post #3494 of 3665
1/29/13 at 7:23pm
Radiance XE-3D versus iScan Duo using Calman 5.1 AutoCal.
Better result with the XE, versus the Duo, with a lot less sampling to get the final results using the XE. Both ended with a Grayscale average of 0.30. Duo and Radiance originally both had problems handling the Blue on my LGs. With the new Beta Calman 5.1 (Ver. 1092), XE now has the Blue under control. XE results were excellent after the 125 Point 3D LUT. Duo on the AutoCal had issues with CMS Green, Blue and Magenta. Sure hope they can get the Duo one more FW update. 125 Point would be a better update than ISF Night and Day Calibrations, for the average user.
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post #3495 of 3665
1/29/13 at 8:10pm
At the difference price point the XE should give better results. Doubtful that 125 pt will come to the Duo as it is most likely beyond its physical capability.
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post #3496 of 3665
1/30/13 at 3:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by praz View Post

At the difference price point the XE should give better results. Doubtful that 125 pt will come to the Duo as it is most likely beyond its physical capability.

Also tweaking the Autocal results will certainly improve results significantly with the Duo because currently Autocal only uses 100% saturation patterns for CMS.
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post #3497 of 3665
1/30/13 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Also tweaking the Autocal results will certainly improve results significantly with the Duo because currently Autocal only uses 100% saturation patterns for CMS.

True. The Duo vs Radiance is an apple to oranges comparison. The differences are limited by the price point one wishes to spend at. 125 point calibration is mostly wishful thinking for the Duo as it is unlikely there is the memory space available for that. No different the the current Radiance line not being able to move past 125 point calibration. The calibration capabilities one needs is really dependent on the display. You and I have both posted screenshots that show the Duo can produce results that is unlikely to be visually improved regardless on the amount of money spent above and beyond the cost of the Duo. Though I do have other display where the added cost of the Radiance does bring an improvement.
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post #3498 of 3665
1/30/13 at 10:56am
Just how much memory is required to retain 4 calibrations, verus memory required to do a 125 Point?
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post #3499 of 3665
1/30/13 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Just how much memory is required to retain 4 calibrations, verus memory required to do a 125 Point?

It is the amount of memory available for the necessary source code to perform the calibration.
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post #3500 of 3665
1/30/13 at 3:25pm
I have both and would like to a make a comment. If your TV set is linear than the DUO is a great solution for calibration. Where the problem comes in is with TVs that are very non-linear. I have a 92" Mits that is very non-linear and the ability to calibrate at multiple saturation levels and du interpolation between them makes a tremendous difference. I would strongly recommend the DUO for any well behaved (linear) TV. In my case the Radiance and 125 Point Calibration is a big difference maker. An eecolor with with software that could use the full 49 hundred points would probably significantly improve its image over the Radiance.
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post #3501 of 3665
1/31/13 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I have both and would like to a make a comment. If your TV set is linear than the DUO is a great solution for calibration. Where the problem comes in is with TVs that are very non-linear. I have a 92" Mits that is very non-linear and the ability to calibrate at multiple saturation levels and du interpolation between them makes a tremendous difference. I would strongly recommend the DUO for any well behaved (linear) TV. In my case the Radiance and 125 Point Calibration is a big difference maker. An eecolor with with software that could use the full 49 hundred points would probably significantly improve its image over the Radiance.

Hi Gary.

I seem to remember you have always had problems with your Mitsi so i am glad you have eventually found a solution.

Whilst I agree that using a multi point Box of as many points as you want will decrease the points that require interpolation I am not sure that we could detect a difference using our eyes (surely the main reason to calibrate).
Certainly from an academic point of view it is better but in my opinion a Duo calibrated linear Display is all that is necessary.

Incidentally, I believe that a lot more Displays are linear than we have been led to believe, its just that we have always traditionally used 100% saturation patterns for calibration (in fact Autocal for the Duo in both Calman and Chromapure still does).
As Tom's great 'Advanced CM' tool showed me and Calman's 'Colorchecker' and its associated 'Color Comparator' proved, calibrating at another saturation value (say 75%) can make a non conforming Display become very linear indeed (your Mitsi excluded of course).

As previously stated by praz our Duo calibrations will not show visual improvement no matter how accurate the calibration,
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post #3502 of 3665
1/31/13 at 6:25am
This is why I wrote above the results are display dependent. Unfortunately until a VP is in hand one doesn't really know if the DUO would be adequate. For the one display I have I will most likely at some point use the Duo for everything except calibration and add a ColorBox for the calibration duties.
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post #3503 of 3665
1/31/13 at 3:32pm
I think it is 100% display dependent. My Sony 1000ES 4K projector the differences between the Duo and Lumagen Mini were minimal at best. I also just liked the menu and the way the Duo does the Video Level pop (for sports) much better. And I compared both at he same time with the same exact material.

smile.gif
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post #3504 of 3665
2/2/13 at 3:42pm
www.curtpalme.com for those wanting to upgrade from their Duos to the Specials on a top of the line Lumagen with Darbee thrown in! (USA Free shipping)

PLUS, let's not forget our Sponsors:

http://shop.avscience.com/Lumagen-Radiance-Mini-3D-Darbee-Darblet-Bundle_p_538.html
Edited by p5browne - 2/2/13 at 6:09pm
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post #3505 of 3665
2/9/13 at 10:00pm
Man, I must be way over my head. I am so confused I have no idea what is going on. Here is my story.

I have the Panasonic 65VT50, DVDO iScan Duo V2, DPG-2000, CalMAN 5 Control, i1 Display Pro, SpectraCal C3, and Spyder 4 TV HD. I can get the meters and the DPG-2000 to work with CalMAN and was able to do a basic calibration. Not a great one because I am still learning. Up till now my experience has been with things like Disney WoW or SM.

So tonight I tried to calibrate using the i1 and the Duo for the first time. What a fiasco! Everything seemed to be recognized ok and then I tried to find the Workflow for the Duo. I can't find it anywhere. I am up to page 95 of this thread and thought I read that there was a Workflow specifically for the Duo. If there is one, where is it?
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Hope the above makes some sense. On to page 96!

Regards,

Steve
Edited by Thunderduck - 2/10/13 at 11:53am
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post #3506 of 3665
2/10/13 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderduck View Post

Man, I must be way over my head. I am so confused I have no idea what is going on. Here is my story.

I have the Panasonic 65VT50, DVDO iScan Duo V2, DPG-2000, CalMAN 5 Control, i1 Display Pro, SpectraCal C3, and Spyder 4 TV HD. I can get the meters and the DPG-2000 to work with CalMAN and was able to do a basic calibration. Not a great one because I am still learning. Up till now my experience has been with things like Disney WoW or SM.

So tonight I tried to calibrate using the i1 and the Duo for the first time. What a fiasco! Everything seemed to be recognized ok and then I tried to find the Workflow for the Duo. I can't find it anywhere. I am up to page 95 of this thread and thought I read that there was a Workflow specifically for the Duo. If there is one, where is it?
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Hope the above makes some sense. On to page 96!

Regards,

Steve

With Calman 5, there is no special workflow for the Duo. All of the workflows are "universal" in that they will work with all supported equipment. You need to connect to the Duo as both the source and display. Then Calman will use the Duo as the pattern generator, and also make the necessary adjustments to the Duo's grayscale and CMS controls to calibrate the image displayed by the VT.

Alternatively, you could connect to the Duo as the source, and connect the VT as the display, and then Calman will make the adjustments using the VT's internal graycale and CMS controls.

Regards,
Steve
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post #3507 of 3665
2/10/13 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slb View Post

With Calman 5, there is no special workflow for the Duo. All of the workflows are "universal" in that they will work with all supported equipment. You need to connect to the Duo as both the source and display. Then Calman will use the Duo as the pattern generator, and also make the necessary adjustments to the Duo's grayscale and CMS controls to calibrate the image displayed by the VT.

Alternatively, you could connect to the Duo as the source, and connect the VT as the display, and then Calman will make the adjustments using the VT's internal graycale and CMS controls.

Regards,
Steve

Thank you very much! Now I understand.

Take care,

Steve
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post #3508 of 3665
2/11/13 at 11:58pm
Hey, guys, I am actually considering picking one of these up to add the 11-point grayscale, 11-point gamma and CMS ability to my TV.

I have a couple of questions, though.

1) When enabling the Game mode of this VP, does the VP still do grayscale correction and CMS?
2) What's the amount of lag added by this VP while both in and out of Game mode? (In Milliseconds or Frames)

I'm not interested in this VP for deinterlacing, at all, so I'd probably leave it on Game mode 100% of the time IF grayscale, gamma and CMS works while in Game mode... I am just curious for numbers sake.

Thanks in advance!
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post #3509 of 3665
2/12/13 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

Hey, guys, I am actually considering picking one of these up to add the 11-point grayscale, 11-point gamma and CMS ability to my TV.

I have a couple of questions, though.

1) When enabling the Game mode of this VP, does the VP still do grayscale correction and CMS?
2) What's the amount of lag added by this VP while both in and out of Game mode? (In Milliseconds or Frames)

I'm not interested in this VP for deinterlacing, at all, so I'd probably leave it on Game mode 100% of the time IF grayscale, gamma and CMS works while in Game mode... I am just curious for numbers sake.

Thanks in advance!
1) yes, CMS remains active in game mode
2) delay in game mode is less than a frame, in normal processing it depends on how hard you push DE/EE filters

Always using game mode with my PS3.
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post #3510 of 3665
2/12/13 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeNooL View Post

1) yes, CMS remains active in game mode
2) delay in game mode is less than a frame, in normal processing it depends on how hard you push DE/EE filters

Always using game mode with my PS3.

Thanks! I would assume, then, since CMS remains active that grayscale/gamma correction do too, right?

I don't care much for DE/EE filters, so that's really badass!

Right now, I'm using a Sony KDL-60EX645 which has something like 100ms+ of lag outside of Game mode, but about 32ms of lag in game mode. The Sony has no CMS at all, no gamma correction, and only a two point white balance... even outside of game mode...

I was thinking to add this VP to it and bring it up to 48 ms of lag in game mode with all corrections... turning off the VP entirely when playing a "twitch" game.

Well, it was either this or try out a new Sharp LE650/LE657, when they come out this month or next, in hopes the SOE problem outside of game mode is resolved. (Because I wanted a CMS, and at least 10 point white balance correction, but if the VP only adds less than a frame while giving me all that, I think I should just keep the Sony!)
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