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What should my next upgrade be?

post #1 of 15
9/17/09 at 7:47pm
Thread Starter 
I'm looking at advice for what my next upgrade should be:

My current set-up
4 x Polk Rti4
Polk Csi3
Velodyne VRP-1200
Onkyo 506

My room is an awful 10x10x8.

What should my next upgrade be? I'm leaning towards replacing the receiver or getting acoustic treatment.

My dad has a pair of rti8 hooked up to an 20+ year old technics receiver and I can hear details I couldn't hear in my system. Also my system sounded more forward and bright then my dad's set-up.

So what is the weakest link in my set-up and what would you recommend?
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post #2 of 15
9/17/09 at 8:00pm
If your system sounds too bright, acoustic treatment may help.
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post #3 of 15
9/17/09 at 8:19pm
borrow your dad's speakers for a weekend. If it sounds pretty much the same, the problem is your room or the receiver. Most likely the room.
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post #4 of 15
9/17/09 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark05 View Post

I'm looking at advice for what my next upgrade should be:

My current set-up
4 x Polk Rti4
Polk Csi3
Velodyne VRP-1200
Onkyo 506

My room is an awful 10x10x8.

What should my next upgrade be? I'm leaning towards replacing the receiver or getting acoustic treatment.

My dad has a pair of rti8 hooked up to an 20+ year old technics receiver and I can hear details I couldn't hear in my system. Also my system sounded more forward and bright then my dad's set-up.

So what is the weakest link in my set-up and what would you recommend?

Ummmm...yah...Those are 2 completely different speakers and will have completely different sound from each other...Now lets look at a 20 year old 2 channel receiver VS. a multi channel home theater receiver...Again you will have completely different sound...Now lets look at the room...Your bedroom compared to the living/family room your dads system is in...And once again there will be completely different sound between the 2...

What I recommend is you completely revamping your system with much better equipment or wait untl you grow up and buy your own house and not have to be in the bedroom...I am not slamming you just saying the way it is...That Technics amp is designed & built a thousand times better than your 506 and was engineered for analog sources while the 506 was engineered for multiple digital sources...The tower floorstanding speakers are designed to have much more output than your bookshelf speakers...You are comparing apples to watermelons...They can't be compared...

There is nothing wrong with your system...Actually it is pretty impressive for a kid...I'll tell you how I set my sons bedroom system up and it is really impressive for what it is...The room is EXACTLY the same dimensions as yours is...10x10x8...He has a LCD flat panel mounted on the wall and the sound system consists of a 100 watt/ch 2 channel stereo receiver and 2 small bookshelf speakers (smaller than yours) and no sub...That little system sounds awfully impressive and sounds better than the 5.1 JVC 1000watt system in my bedroom...Of course it can't hold a candle next to my living room system but it was never supposed to...But then again neither can my JVC system...

I suggest you lose the sub/center & 2 surroundspeakers and operate the 506 in stereo mode only...You don't need and can't effectively use 5.1 in a 10x10 bedroom as you have come to realize...Use stereo only and you'll be much happier...
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post #5 of 15
9/17/09 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

That Technics amp is designed & built a thousand times better than your 506

Meh... I dunno about that... I've got a 20-year-old Technics 2-channel integrated amp, and in all honestly, I think it sounds like crap. My 8-year old Denon AVR sounds much better.
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post #6 of 15
9/17/09 at 9:28pm
And it may very well sound like crap...to you...But as I am sure you are well aware of; sound quality is very subjective...And even with that being said depending on the model of Denon you have it probably is better than the low entry level tier the Onkyo 506 is...let alone a Technics...But just like Denon and Onkyo, Technics had different tiers of quality and some were pretty nice...It all boils down to what the listener thinks though...
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post #7 of 15
9/17/09 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Ummmm...yah...Those are 2 completely different speakers and will have completely different sound from each other...Now lets look at a 20 year old 2 channel receiver VS. a multi channel home theater receiver...Again you will have completely different sound...Now lets look at the room...Your bedroom compared to the living/family room your dads system is in...And once again there will be completely different sound between the 2...

What I recommend is you completely revamping your system with much better equipment or wait untl you grow up and buy your own house and not have to be in the bedroom...I am not slamming you just saying the way it is...That Technics amp is designed & built a thousand times better than your 506 and was engineered for analog sources while the 506 was engineered for multiple digital sources...The tower floorstanding speakers are designed to have much more output than your bookshelf speakers...You are comparing apples to watermelons...They can't be compared...

There is nothing wrong with your system...Actually it is pretty impressive for a kid...I'll tell you how I set my sons bedroom system up and it is really impressive for what it is...The room is EXACTLY the same dimensions as yours is...10x10x8...He has a LCD flat panel mounted on the wall and the sound system consists of a 100 watt/ch 2 channel stereo receiver and 2 small bookshelf speakers (smaller than yours) and no sub...That little system sounds awfully impressive and sounds better than the 5.1 JVC 1000watt system in my bedroom...Of course it can't hold a candle next to my living room system but it was never supposed to...But then again neither can my JVC system...

I suggest you lose the sub/center & 2 surroundspeakers and operate the 506 in stereo mode only...You don't need and can't effectively use 5.1 in a 10x10 bedroom as you have come to realize...Use stereo only and you'll be much happier...

First off, I'm aware that my set-up vs my dad's offer completely different audio experiences. I only mentioned my dad's gear as a reference to what I'm hearing. I'm not trying to recreate the same audio experience.

I would highly disagree that you can't effectively use 5.1 in a 10x10 room. My speakers are properly positioned and my seating is optimal given the room and display size. Also, there isn't a noticeable audio difference when running the system 2 channel vs having a 5.1 channel load. Along with that, the extension of these small bookshelfs aren't nearly capable even for music without a sub.

Obviously the idea is to revamp the entire system over time. But since I am a college "kid" as you said this is obviously going to take time. Therefore my question is what the NEXT step is. I'll worry about the last step well into the future.

I don't appreciate the undertones of your comment.
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post #8 of 15
9/18/09 at 3:35am
I don't care if you don't like your ill-conceived and childish perception that how I responded had "undertones" especially when I went out of my way to:
1. Explain to you what you obviously can't seem to comprehend, and,
2. I explicitly pointed out I was not slamming you.

Now the fact that you want your system to produce the annoyingly low and window rattling 'hip-hop' bass just goes to show you have no interest in quality sound...That you dis-agree with me that a 5.1 system is not possible to be utilized correctly in a 10x10 room is fine...I don't have a problem with your disagreeing with me but I do have a problem with your attitude in your response...Even IF you are old enough to be in college you are still a 'kid' like it or not...To be an adult requires substantially more than turning 18...

Your comment that:
Quote:


there isn't a noticeable audio difference when running the system 2 channel vs having a 5.1 channel

verifies what I am saying and said that 5.1 cannot be effective utilized in such a small bedroom...And thats using your words not mine...I answered your question based on the way and how you asked it...Your next step is to wait until you move out of dads house and buy your own place...When you say you hear more details on dads system than you've ever heard on yours also speaks in volumes that you are trying to recreate the same listening experience...

Finally...Your current speakers are more than capable of producing the proper amount of bass gven the size room they are placed if you set the amp up correctly...They may not go as low or as powerful as you want them to go which is a completely different situation altogether...But they will and do have all the correct bass that room can handle without the use of a sub...

So I suggest your NEXT step is to lose the attitude and be grateful for the advice you receive whether you agree with it or not since you are the one who asked for it to begin with...
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post #9 of 15
9/18/09 at 6:19am
You are just a jackass!! Why is it the room can only handle that much bass? Ever seen how small a car is and what they can do there? Also I don't recall any statement about listening to rap or hip hop. I listen to plenty of music where a good sub can do wonders. Perhaps before you go running you mouth to put someone down you should just keep it closed as you are not helping anyone.
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post #10 of 15
9/18/09 at 8:37am
The room can only handle so much bass because of its size...Just because you can put more bass there doesn't make it right but it sure can make it wrong...

Nobody asked you about what music you listen to that a sub can help...

You should listen to your own advice instead of jumping in and just to "put someone down"...

And you shouldn't be so childish and calling people names...

Finally why would you even mention car audio when this is about home audio???

As a matter of fact you have added zero to this topic...Why are you even posting???
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post #11 of 15
9/18/09 at 10:01am
Thread Starter 
If I had no interest in sound quality I wouldn't be on these forums and I wouldn't have taken the time to put together the system I have.

I'm on these forums to get advice from people who are more experienced then me about audio equipment.

I'm not on these forums to get advice about my living situation.

If you want to argue that properly setting up a 2 channel system would allow more enjoyment then a 5.1 channel system given the size of the room that is a fair statement to make.

Telling me that I should move out of my dad's house and buy my own place is not the type of advice I'm looking for on these forums.

I took your advice about running two channels and my personal tastes say I don't gain enough (potential clarity) compared to what I loose (discrete surround sound).

I'm not willing to sacrifice my five discrete channels because 2/3 of my time is spent with multichannel sources.

Now, since you do have more experience then I do, I'm asking given the situation I have (my tastes want a 5.1 in a 10x10 room) Given my budget of around $500 do you have any recommendations about what components I should consider replacing and with what to get a better audio experience?
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post #12 of 15
9/18/09 at 10:41am
Doesn't anyone bother to read anymore???

Look...I never said for you to move out...I said you can wait till you get your own place or revamp your system...

Now the first thing you want to change is your amp to a better class amp...Keep the $500 and sell the 506...Take the money from the 506 and add it to the $500 and get a better amp...Go listen at the B&M stores and then buy online...You may want to look at Harmon Kardon as a starting point...If you are bound and determined to have a full size 5.1 setup in such a small room a HK is the minimum I would suggest...Though I still recommend you running everything in 2 channel regardless if it is multichannel material...Once you get accustomed to 2 channel it won't even phase you...
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post #13 of 15
9/19/09 at 9:36am
Dark05, I really don't think you need to revamp your system. That Onkyo receiver should handle those Polks pretty well. I mean after all, you're only in a 10 x10 room you're not going to need a lot of power. Your room is actually your weakest link. Square rooms are the most challenging shape, acoustically, to reproduce music in because the equal dimensions allow the sound waves to keep bouncing. Rectangular shapes force the waves to break-up. At this point, I believe adding some kind of treatments will help more than anything.

You seem like a relatively intelligent guy, I believe if you do some research on room acoustics and room treatments, I believe you will be able to find some economically friendly alternatives (DYI) to help your situation. I also think that you really need to focus on speaker placement as well. Check out the Dolby & THX websites for guidance and don't be afraid to experiment.

Most of all, have fun - some people take this stuff way too seriously! You're young and you have plenty of time to upgrade AFTER graduation and starting your career. Right now, focus on learning what it takes to create the best sound with your present equipment in the room you've got. If you can accomplish that, think of what you can do when you've got the time and resources for some really great equipment!!
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post #14 of 15
9/19/09 at 10:40am
I think you might be able to get more out of your system by tweaking it. With the size of room you may not be able to move them around to much but it can make a huge difference.

1)in you main listening position raise and lower your ears. If you hear an improvement do the same to those speakes.
2)for the mains vary the distance between them and test.
3)experiment with the distance the speakers are placed from the nearest wall. Not just further out but try closer too.
4)lastly experiment with angling the speakers in. Not just the mains but the surrounds as well. For surrounds I find having them slightly forward or back and angle them in. Pointing the speakers straight at you main position my not produce the best sound. For mains I like to focus them on a point just in front of the main area.

You may be surprised at the results Even a small move can result in finding the sweet spot.

PS- With a small room angling the speakers in can sometimes reduce the deflection off side walls and furniture that can muddy the sound.
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post #15 of 15
9/19/09 at 10:58am
The two posts above are good info. Room treatments and position adjustment can alter sound a lot. Ignore splicer010 as his advice is terrible (and his assumptions of you are ridiculous). Ask your dad if he has adjusted the EQ on his AVR. A lot of stereo receivers have 7 band or more EQ adjustments that many people fiddle with. He may be doing the V or W settings of yesteryear. That could be a reason his sounds so different.
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