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New! Yamaha YSP-4100

post #1 of 169
Thread Starter 
Engadget just picked up the Japanese release of the YSP-4100.

Glad to see 4 HDMI inputs (vs 2 on the YSP-4000)! A tad taller than the YSP-4000. A matching wireless subwoofer, wireless iPhone compatible dock, a piece of furniture for it almost exactly like the one I had custom built for my YSP-4000 two years ago, and a few other new things.

Lots of improvements!
post #2 of 169
AT LAST!! Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, and DTS-HD Master Audio...thank you Yamaha!!!
post #3 of 169
I would love to hear some direct comparisons between the ysp-4100 and ysp-4000 as far as features go, as well as some projections on the price of the 4100 and how fast/aggressively we'll see the prices of the 4000 fall.

Thanks everyone!
post #4 of 169
The Japanese news release contains a diagram which seems to imply that the system would support the addition of wireless rear or angled speakers a well as a wireless sub. This would be a nice selling point as it adds flexibility if the unit is ever moved around.

+1 For possibility of adding a pair of wireless speakers and sub to get a much more realistic and uniform surround experience.
+1 For the HD audio formats and multichannel LPCM.
+1 for inputs

Nothing else seemed compelling to me personally.

My two concerns:

? I just hope the sound quality is equal or better considering the slimmed down chassis.

? I hope the sticker shock is not too big, as grey market YSP-1100s are available for 800$ and YSP-4000 1050$ (1200$ when specials come up at online authorized resellers) I will cross my fingers that BestBuy gets a sizeable discount going.

Or like in my dreams that they actually sell the products in Canada. Can you believe we still have the YSP-600 and the YSP-3000 listed as the newest fangled devices?! For christmas we will probably get the 4000 as the new product for the next three years... grrr... No bitterness towards Yamaha, nope.

ps. No more envying the cheaper Sony soundbars for their HD sound.. eh eh

I was edging towards a KEF 5-2 + Kube1 + Onkyo SR-507, but now I will probably bide my time until release of the 4100. *sigh* I was within a day of pulling the trigger on it.

xkilian
post #5 of 169
I had already placed an order for YSP 4000 (it wasn't available in stock at the Yamaha stores in India). I was expecting to pick it up this week.
Now I am not sure if I should wait till end of Dec-Jan to know if the 4100 is a big improvement over 4000
Nothing in the specs really seem that attractive (over 4000). I am not into Bluray so the new codecs are not really necessary for me. I was planning a wired sub with the 4000, so the idea of a wireless sub is also fancy but not required. And having the extra HDMI Ins while good it is not really a compelling reason.

-Subhash
post #6 of 169
can't wait....looks awesome.
post #7 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by sssubhash View Post

I had already placed an order for YSP 4000 (it wasn't available in stock at the Yamaha stores in India). I was expecting to pick it up this week.
Now I am not sure if I should wait till end of Dec-Jan to know if the 4100 is a big improvement over 4000
Nothing in the specs really seem that attractive (over 4000). I am not into Bluray so the new codecs are not really necessary for me. I was planning a wired sub with the 4000, so the idea of a wireless sub is also fancy but not required. And having the extra HDMI Ins while good it is not really a compelling reason.

-Subhash

if it were me, having lived through uprgading form the YSP-1100 to the YSP-4000 only to discover i really didn't gain anything useful (was mainly interested in the HDMI but in the end i had to use an hdmi switch anyhow!) and found it lacking even multi-channel PCM support, I WOULD WAIT.
post #8 of 169
This is exactly what i am looking at for the lounge room. I can match this up with my vsxax10 and i'm in the ball park. Interesting to know how much this will sell for. Thanks for posting anyway.
post #9 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

if it were me, having lived through uprgading form the YSP-1100 to the YSP-4000 only to discover i really didn't gain anything useful (was mainly interested in the HDMI but in the end i had to use an hdmi switch anyhow!) and found it lacking even multi-channel PCM support, I WOULD WAIT.

Thanks BenDover. I guess, I have to wait now. If for nothing else at least the prices should drop further on 4000
post #10 of 169
Tremendous news! But.. am I missing in that Press release
where it says Dolby True and DTS Ma??
post #11 of 169
Thread Starter 
Yes. It says "Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio".
post #12 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Tremendous news! But.. am I missing in that Press release
where it says Dolby True and DTS Ma??

Ok, just saw it in the Japanese release. This is
big. I can tell you as I own the 4000 and the
Mitsubishi LCD with sound projector that does Dolby True,
well...this should be VERY worth the wait.
post #13 of 169
For more info go here, its in japanese but you will get a fair idea on what your looking at.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8hNMd6RICM
post #14 of 169
I just watched the YouTube video and I swear I can speak Japanese now.

Cheers
Davyo
post #15 of 169
I was waiting for this for long long time. I did not want 4000 without dtshd & dolby true.
post #16 of 169
When do you think, this will hit US market? Around Xmas will be a good time.
post #17 of 169
Hey all,
Well, this news release has gotten me thinking, if I really do
want to upgrade to the 4100 from my 4000. What is the
main and really only reason I would want to is for the Blu
Ray Hd audio codecs. But, when you think of it, almost all
the labels have now gone to DTS-ma since Sony and Warner Bros switched.
The current YSP can decode the 1.5 dts core that most people
say and in blind testing is indistinguishable from uncompressed.
This article talks a lot about it:

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM

There is also a very smart guy on the forums
'Filmixer' that does a lot of film mixing that I believe has
sad basically 1.5 and Uncompressed is indistinguishable in
blind tests. I just wonder if that bump 'up'
to DTS -ma, from what one already gets from a blu Ray
disc, would really be "all that".
Hmmm...
post #18 of 169
I just wonder if that bump 'up'
to DTS -ma, from what one already gets from a blu Ray
disc, would really be "all that".
Hmmm... >>>

Frosty - Especially with a soundbar ...
post #19 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue comet View Post

I just wonder if that bump 'up'
to DTS -ma, from what one already gets from a blu Ray
disc, would really be "all that".
Hmmm... >>>

Frosty - Especially with a soundbar ...

Yeah Blu Comet. And that is another point. These tests
were done on super high end stuff. And the difference between the higher bit rates dolbys and dts to uncompressed were negligable at best. I guess we'll see...
post #20 of 169
hey guys, i spoke with a yamaha rep today and the ysp4100 will definately be out on the market around the end of next month. So definately out before xmas. As for the price, they dont seem to know, but i dont think they will be cheap. Regards grassy
post #21 of 169
Finally!!!

Let's wait and see the price tag...!
post #22 of 169
I don't get it...then why is there this big hubub over the CT-100/500 because they can decode uncompressed LPCM?? People were saying that there is no comparison when watching blu-ray over the compressed formats...there are countless posts like this. Now you are saying that DTS-HD MA is of lesser quality than LPCM then? Is Dolby True a lot better but getting no support now? Please clarify, because it would seem to me that the 4100 should destroy the 4000 due to these formats based on all of the conversations I have read around here. If it is true that they are going away from a superior audio codec for Blu-Ray then there would be no point in spending any extra money for hardware that utilizes it.
post #23 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete C View Post

I don't get it...then why is there this big hubub over the CT-100/500 because they can decode uncompressed LPCM?? People were saying that there is no comparison when watching blu-ray over the compressed formats...there are countless posts like this. Now you are saying that DTS-HD MA is of lesser quality than LPCM then? Please clarify, because it would seem to me that the 4100 should destroy the 4000 due to these formats based on all of the conversations I have read around here.

without getting into old format war arguments, i.e., i won't comment on whether the difference from the lossless formats (Dolby True-HD, DTS Master) is discernible over some of the "lesser" lossy formats (Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HR, etc.), i want to answer your less controversial question, uncompressed LPCM (if lossless) is the equivalent of either of Dolby True-HD or DTS Master when the latter two are decoded since the latter two are "lossless" codecs; i.e., when you decode the information, you are left with the original signal, which would be the lossless uncompressed LPCM.

i think i stated that correctly; if not i'm sure i'll be corrected
post #24 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

without getting into old format war arguments, i.e., i won't comment on whether the difference from the lossless formats (Dolby True-HD, DTS Master) is discernible over some of the "lesser" lossy formats (Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HR, etc.), i want to answer your less controversial question, uncompressed LPCM (if lossless) is the equivalent of either of Dolby True-HD or DTS Master when the latter two are decoded since the latter two are "lossless" codecs; i.e., when you decode the information, you are left with the original signal, which would be the lossless uncompressed LPCM.

i think i stated that correctly; if not i'm sure i'll be corrected

So there is some debate over lossless formats being any better than lossy. Interesting...on those CT-100 threads it would appear that LPCM is overwhelmingly better than the old codecs. People were getting the CT-100 based on this one factor alone (or perhaps the price had much to do with it). Now this argument that tests have shown with high-end equipment that the difference is not that great. I would see no reason to spend extra money on it. However, the wireless rear speakers sound like a killer feature alone. True surround with no wires (except power cords).
post #25 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete C View Post

I don't get it...then why is there this big hubub over the CT-100/500 because they can decode uncompressed LPCM?? People were saying that there is no comparison when watching blu-ray over the compressed formats...there are countless posts like this. Now you are saying that DTS-HD MA is of lesser quality than LPCM then? Is Dolby True a lot better but getting no support now? Please clarify, because it would seem to me that the 4100 should destroy the 4000 due to these formats based on all of the conversations I have read around here. If it is true that they are going away from a superior audio codec for Blu-Ray then there would be no point in spending any extra money for hardware that utilizes it.

Pete,
There is no question all the HD codecs( PCM, Dolby True, DTS -ma) are fantastic. They DO sound significantly better then a standard Dolby on
a reg DVD and
I believe 'most' people can hear a difference.
My point was that one is getting a high bit rate of 1.5 Mbps core
on any dts- ma blu Ray disc. One should keep in mind when
1. Movie theater DTS came into being it was 1.5 or about
2. Certain laser discs had a 1.5 dts bitrate and Digital Theater tapes had
1.5 DTS . Also certain early DVDs(Ants, Waterworld, Twister).

All of the above was really considered awesome and the
holy Grail for
movie audio and that one coudnt ask for much better.


One now gets that on most blu Ray discs now that Blu Ray has really moved
to DTS ma far more then Dobly True. And my point is that the 1.5mbps has been shown to be 'pretty much' it's full uncompressed equal sound wise.
post #26 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Pete,
There is no question all the HD codecs( PCM, Dolby True, DTS -ma) are fantastic. They DO sound significantly better then a standard Dolby on
a reg DVD and
I believe 'most' people can hear a difference.
My point was that one is getting a high bit rate of 1.5 Mbps core
on any dts- ma blu Ray disc. One should keep in mind when
1. Movie theater DTS came into being it was 1.5 or about
2. Certain laser discs had a 1.5 dts bitrate and Digital Theater tapes had
1.5 DTS . Also certain early DVDs(Ants, Waterworld, Twister).

All of the above was really considered awesome and the
holy Grail for
movie audio and that one coudnt ask for much better.


One now gets that on most blu Ray discs now that Blu Ray has really moved
to DTS ma far more then Dobly True. And my point is that the 1.5mbps has been shown to be 'pretty much' it's full uncompressed equal sound wise.

Thanks for the info frostylou. So, to recap...newer Blu-Ray discs now offer not only DTS-MA, but also the standard core DTS track that can be played by a YSP-4000 or any other original DTS compatible receiver. It is this core soundtrack which is arguably no worse than DTS-MA, even though it is lossy. Before the switch to DTS, on many BDs there was only Dolby Digital, LPCM, and Dolby True. If you did not have an LPCM or Dolby True compatible receiver, you were stuck with Dolby Digital, which is clearly inferior. However, the switch to DTS has made the lossy soundtrack almost on par with the lossless. Let me know if I got all that correct.

Based on this info, then, it would only be the 7-channel option on the new 4100 with the addition of 2 rear speakers to give you the full 7.1 that would show a big improvement over the 4000 (assuming no other speaker size or quality enhancements).
post #27 of 169
[quote=Pete C;17218667]Thanks for the info frostylou. So, to recap...newer Blu-Ray discs now offer not only DTS-MA, but also the standard core DTS track that can be played by a YSP-4000 or any other original DTS compatible receiver. It is this core soundtrack which is arguably no worse than DTS-MA, even though it is lossy. Before the switch to DTS, on many BDs there was only Dolby Digital, LPCM, and Dolby True. If you did not have an LPCM or Dolby True compatible receiver, you were stuck with Dolby Digital, which is clearly inferior. However, the switch to DTS has made the lossy soundtrack almost on par with the lossless. Let me know if I got all that correct.

Based on this info, then, it would only be the 7-channel option on the new 4100 with the addition of 2 rear speakers to give you the full 7.1 that would show a big improvement over the 4000 (assuming no other speaker size or quality enhancements).[/QUOTE


Basically, the question remains.. is the Core 1.5 mbps of the DTSma on
a blu Ray disc that you can get on just a ysp
4000 'pretty much' just as good
as the full uncompresed DTS ma. I have heard many people
such as 'Film mixer' on these forums and others, including the above
article that say yes it is.
post #28 of 169
If the rear is in fact wireless, I wonder why they didn't develop a 2-bar approach rather than 1 bar with 2 rear satellites. I think it would have been awesome to just have the main front bar and a rear surround bar with arrayed mini-drivers like the front. I can't complain though...wireless rears of any sort would be amazing paired with this system.
post #29 of 169
post #30 of 169
Wow, yamaha do seem to be moving quickly.
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