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Do I Need A New AV Receiver

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Please Help:
I intend to buy an HDTV (Samsung LN46B750) and Blu-ray player (Panasonic DMP BD60), but I am wondering if I need to replace my old Kenwood VR-6060 AV Receiver (probably with the Onkyo TX-SR607).
I am currently very happy with my Kenwood, but it only has the previous generation CODECs (DD-EX and DTS-ES), and of course it has no HDMI connections. Since my only HD source will be the Blu-ray player, however, I plan to connect it directly to the HDTV via HDMI. So far so good (right?)
My questions are these:
1. Since the Blu-ray player has Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio onboard, is it possible to connect it in a way that will allow me to hear those new CODECs on my 6.1 audio system while still using my Kenwood, or must I have a contemporary AV Receiver with the new CODECs onboard?
2. If it will require a new receiver, in the opinion of those of you who have experience with the new CODECs versus the previous generation, are Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio a significant-enough improvement over DD-EX and DTS-ES to justify a new receiver? I vaguely remember reading in S&V magazine that they aren't that much of an improvement, if at all.

Thank you in advance for your help, and God bless.
post #2 of 26
1. If your Kenwood had multi-channel analog inputs, you could get lossless audio that way.
2. There are two things I would like to mention. The first is that Blu-ray has a higher quality DD and DTS than DVD. If you compare that higher quality DD/DTS to lossless, there would not appear to be much of a difference. See my comments in the stickied AVR FAQ
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks Michael, but I need some clarification on terms:
Am I correct that lossless is Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, and that by DD and DTS you are referring to DD-EX and DTS-ES?
Is the higher quality DD and DTS of Blu-ray attributable to the players, the Blu-ray discs, or both?
I understanding you to be saying that I wouldn't hear much of a difference, so I likely do not need a new receiver? Correct?

BTW, the Kenwood does have multi-channel analog inputs, although I have never utilized them.
post #4 of 26
cinderbob, I wouldn't worry all that much about lossless audio. The older, legacy codecs like standard DD and dts are of much higher quality on BluRay than they are on a DVD. They are almost imperceptible from the newer lossless codecs like TrueHD and dts MA, and you can get 'em with a standard optical cable.

Read about it here.
post #5 of 26
If you are happy with the Kenwood VR-6060 you will be doing cartwheels over something like the Onkyo 607. My sister and brother in law bought one of them about the same time I bought a HK AVR 520. I recently sold them the HK and they could not believe the difference in sound quality and the available power.

You may want to take a look at the Onkyo RC160 also. Very close to the 607 with 10wpc less power and a few other features left out that few users would care about anyway.

IIRC the 6060 does not have multi channel input jacks. The RC160 can decode the new HD audio over HDMI.
post #6 of 26
Just the price of the 7.1 analog cables will be enough to make you swallow a bottle of sleeping pills. A new mid-priced receiver is probably cheaper and will sound much better. You will probably upgrade eventually. Why not now. Then, you can save some money by getting a blu-ray player without analog outputs.
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

If you are happy with the Kenwood VR-6060 you will be doing cartwheels over something like the Onkyo 607. My sister and brother in law bought one of them about the same time I bought a HK AVR 520. I recently sold them the HK and they could not believe the difference in sound quality and the available power.

You may want to take a look at the Onkyo RC160 also. Very close to the 607 with 10wpc less power and a few other features left out that few users would care about anyway.

IIRC the 6060 does not have multi channel input jacks. The RC160 can decode the new HD audio over HDMI.

So ... your sister and brother in law felt the HK AVR 520 was a big improvement over the Onkyo 607, or vice versa?
BTW, great quote by Sir Winston.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderbob View Post

So ... your sister and brother in law felt the HK AVR 520 was a big improvement over the Onkyo 607, or vice versa?
BTW, great quote by Sir Winston.

I think he is actually saying that even the Onkyo 607 is a great improvement over the Kenwood.
post #9 of 26
Good thing Kenwood boy is not here!
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I think he is actually saying that even the Onkyo 607 is a great improvement over the Kenwood.

To tell you true, in addition to the Kenwood 6060, my 6.1 HT system consists of five BIC DV52si speakers with a BIC DV52CSI center, and a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 sub, and I honestly don't know how it could sound better - much less significantly better. It puts the best movie theater experience I have ever had to shame. Some of you may have difficulty believing that, but I only wish you could be here so I could prove it.

In short, that old Kenwood is a GREAT receiver!

No offense, but I think that, for a variety of reasons, we audio and videophiles often tend to get caught up in hype, in marketing, in brands, and in thinking that owning the latest equipment is a must.

My sincere thanks to all of you, and especially to Easyaspie, for your input. I have decided to keep the Kenwood.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderbob View Post

So ... your sister and brother in law felt the HK AVR 520 was a big improvement over the Onkyo 607, or vice versa?
BTW, great quote by Sir Winston.

No, they replaced a Kenwood KR6060 with the HK 520. The 607 is a better avr than the 520 by a fair stretch.

As for the Sir Winston Churchill quote it seems as appropriate today as it did when he said that. I'm sure he had Neville Chamberlain in mind at the time.
post #12 of 26
I'd replace the Kenwood receiver with the Onkyo, though I'm not personally familiar with those exact models. I did have a Kenwood VR-6070 (or VR-6090?) for 3+ years, up to last December, when it broke and I replaced it with a Pioneer VSX-1017. The Pioneer is so much better! I'm happy the Kenwood broke and I'm rid of it. This is completely aside from handling the new HD codecs (which my Pioneer doesn't do, either). For one thing, I really like auto-calibration, which the Onkyo 607 you're considering has, of course. The only reservation I'd have about the Onkyo 607 (which I haven't actually heard yet) is that it won't handle both back surround and height surround speakers at the same time.
post #13 of 26
The first mistake you did was posting here. Did you really expect people to tell you NOT to upgrade? Don't worry, its a disease you will soon catch!

Ok seriously, I would suggest you get your new tv and player and start enjoying movies - the tv will make much more of a difference than a receiver would.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRT View Post

Just the price of the 7.1 analog cables will be enough to make you swallow a bottle of sleeping pills. A new mid-priced receiver is probably cheaper and will sound much better. You will probably upgrade eventually. Why not now. Then, you can save some money by getting a blu-ray player without analog outputs.

You can use 4 pair of stereo cables for very little money. Just label them before connecting so you dont get things mixed up since they all have red/white connectors. Label them FL, FR, C, SW, SL, SR, SBL, SBR. A Sharpie marker should do the trick.

FL - Front Left
FR - Front Right
C - Center
SW - Subwoofer
SL - Surround Left
SR -Surround Right
SBL - Surround Back Left
SBL - Surround Back Right

4 pair of the below stereo cables run less than $3.00 each.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
post #15 of 26
if you Kenwood have 5.1 input, get the Panasonic BD80 instead of the BD60.
The BD60 does not have the 5.1 analog out although it does decode internally but only send the multichannel through HDMI.
The BD80 will have the 7.1 analog out that you need. Get the RCA cables from monoprice and can continue using your Kenwood.
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

No, they replaced a Kenwood KR6060 with the HK 520. The 607 is a better avr than the 520 by a fair stretch.

As for the Sir Winston Churchill quote it seems as appropriate today as it did when he said that. I'm sure he had Neville Chamberlain in mind at the time.

I couldn't agree more. I only wish there weren't so many Neville Chamberlains around today. I very much fear they will be the death of us all! But that's politics, and this is not the venue, so 'nuff said.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

The first mistake you did was posting here. Did you really expect people to tell you NOT to upgrade? Don't worry, its a disease you will soon catch!

Ok seriously, I would suggest you get your new tv and player and start enjoying movies - the tv will make much more of a difference than a receiver would.

Good point, Defcon. I guess hope springs eternal, eh? However, there are some, like Michael and Easyaspie, who have indicated that the difference in sound offered by the new codecs will be minimal.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderbob View Post

Good point, Defcon. I guess hope springs eternal, eh? However, there are some, like Michael and Easyaspie, who have indicated that the difference in sound offered by the new codecs will be minimal.

And they are correct. As long as you are happy with the Kenwood keep it. The differences you would experience won't be from audio - mostly it would be from the features you currently don't have. My HT preamp is old by the standards of today - no HDMI switching - but it sounds great and the two HDMI sources I use are both connected directly to the TV. I don't get the latest audio formats but I'm not able to play them anyway - my DVD player does not play BluRay and I have no desire to buy one.

This hobby is about enjoyment - not having the latest gadgets. Enjoy your setup.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderbob View Post

I couldn't agree more. I only wish there weren't so many Neville Chamberlains around today. I very much fear they will be the death of us all! But that's politics, and this is not the venue, so 'nuff said.

Yeah we need more warmongers like Churchill...
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

And they are correct. As long as you are happy with the Kenwood keep it. The differences you would experience won't be from audio - mostly it would be from the features you currently don't have. My HT preamp is old by the standards of today - no HDMI switching - but it sounds great and the two HDMI sources I use are both connected directly to the TV. I don't get the latest audio formats but I'm not able to play them anyway - my DVD player does not play BluRay and I have no desire to buy one.

This hobby is about enjoyment - not having the latest gadgets. Enjoy your setup.

I hear you Knucklehead, loud and clear. See my post on 9-25.

My sincere thanks again to all of you who took the time and trouble to respond.
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER View Post

Yeah we need more warmongers like Churchill...

Whether or not you know electronics I cannot say, but your knowledge of history is sorely lacking. Hitler was the warmonger, Chamberlain and the rest of his liberal ilk encouraged and emboldened him with their weakness, and Churchill was one of the primary war-enders.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana
post #22 of 26
I think his comment may have been tongue in cheek, but you can never tell in online forums.

You would have to be pretty clueless to view the allies as the warmongers when they were mainly defending themselves against the Axis powers.

Sometime back I read some interviews of the pilots who flew the bombing missions which dropped atomic bombs on Japan. I know this is a sensitive topic, so I apologize somewhat for bringing it up. But both insisted they had no regrets. Everytime I hear negative comments about those missions, I think of the 1000's of lives lost at Pearl Harbor (yes, I realize we bombed cities which were civilian targets, and I don't ever want to see something like that done again!)

No, I don't think of the Allies as warmongers.

Anyway, politics is a dangerous topic! Even worse than amplifier sound
post #23 of 26
In all honestly, just keep the kenwood. I recently upgraded from an older Yamaha and if I had it to do over I probably would not (I'd take a big hit on a restocking fee). As mentioned you will likely not see a huge improvement on sound quality, if any. You can just hook to the tv directly through the hdmi for video, then use an optical or coax cable as you did before to the receiver for sound (as mentioned dd and dts on bluray are superior to regular dvd's). Or use the pre-outs if your receiver will properly utilize them (my old receiver had the inputs, but I couldn't find a way to boost the bass, and most players for whatever reason retard the bass when using those inputs). Anyway, it sounded better to me just using an optical cable.

Now, I did get a Denon with the ABT chip for video and I DO thik that in some instances it improves video quality (although on some sd programs via cable I think it's worse).

The long and the short of it is I'd say save the cash, unless cash is not a concern or it will simply give you peace of mind having the latest gear (hey, peace of mind is legit)
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinderbob View Post

Whether or not you know electronics I cannot say, but your knowledge of history is sorely lacking. Hitler was the warmonger, Chamberlain and the rest of his liberal ilk encouraged and emboldened him with their weakness, and Churchill was one of the primary war-enders.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana

And those who win are obliged to write it - in their favor of course. For the most part history leading up to WWII has been well documented and fairly written about.



Quote:


Yeah we need more warmongers like Churchill...


Churchill was viewed as a warmonger when he issued his dire warnings - as early as 1932 he advocated against letting Germany rearm to the same strength as France - who sat behind their Maginot line thinking it would repel any invaders.

That popular opinion of Churchill abruptly came to an end Sept 1st 1939 when Germany invaded Poland.

Are we repeating history? Some think we are.
post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

Are we repeating history? Some think we are.

Anyone who looks at the inconclusive way this country is waging the war against Islamic extremism, and reacting to Iran and Ahdaminejad, can clearly see that history is being repeated. Anyone who doubts that is either blind, or living in La-La-Land.
post #26 of 26
ok back to topic,

mpyw's reply was exactly what i was going to post . so thanks mpyw! to be even more specific, here is the manual for your VR 6060:
http://inform3.kenwoodusa.com/manuals%5CVR6060.pdf

Page 13 states that u have 5.1 input, so don't buy that 7.1 cable, buy the 5.1 cable. and here are your cable choices from monoprice:

for absolute dirt cheapest 3 pairs of 2 channel (LEFT AND RIGHT) RCA cables (to makeup the "5.1") interconnection it's a whoppping $5.79 Delivered to my zipcode for 12footers. but naturally you want somn a bit beefier than the absolute cheapest, for 3 pairs of this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

it's $14.03 delivered to my zipcode.

now comes where the REAL money is to be spent:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=bd80+region&_sacat=See-All-Categories
^u can grab a regionless BD80 that can play Region B&C (provided u live in Region A). it's not cheap, but completely worth it.

but for those prices, i'd rather get a BDP-83 regionless:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=bdp83+region&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=DVD_Players_Recorders&_odkw=bd80+region&_osacat=0

now u can play SACD/DVD-Audio MLP and be as 'future-proof' as u can be, until HDMI 1.4+ and 3-D comes along


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

if you Kenwood have 5.1 input, get the Panasonic BD80 instead of the BD60.
The BD60 does not have the 5.1 analog out although it does decode internally but only send the multichannel through HDMI.
The BD80 will have the 7.1 analog out that you need. Get the RCA cables from monoprice and can continue using your Kenwood.
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