Ayre DX-5 bluray player - Page 30

Are there any DX-5 owners using the Classe SSP-800 as a controller? I thought Kal was using one or reviewing that particular combo in the past? I was curious how the two sounded on redbook CD and Blu ray? I think I'm going to break down and buy the DX-5 finally. It will replace my CX-7e which I still enjoy.Just for the record the CX-7 sounds fantastic thru my Classe, I'm able to run it direct into the Classe via analog XLR cables.It will serve as my last disc player plus allow me to watch blu ray and enjoy it's "e" function as well.The Classe has an LCD sreeen so no need to turn on the projector to navigate the functions. My delayed Christmas present to myself!

Same here and it is the only display in the room.

I did use that combination and reported on it in the January issue.

I knew I had missed something! Thanks Kal.

Charles, thanks again for the interesting comments.

To sum things up a little bit: The current setup I described above with usage of the HDMI A/V output to the AV7005 and the XLR output to the No. 326S gives best possible two channel audio and a very good picture and multichannel sound quality, which however might be improved.

So my idea would be to use a direct HDMI A/V connection to the second HDMI input of my beamer (please remind that the first HDMI input remains occupied by the Marantz) anf to use the HDMI Audio output for connection to the Marantz. As dave7 already suggested, the composite video connection to the TV set is only needed for on-screen menu purposes with the DX-5, not for regular watching and might be plugged of if not needed.

As for the idea to insulate the cable receiver by a Jensen VRD-1FF, it is a HDTV HDD recorder that uses a kind of F-type satellite connector and requires a return channel for firmware upgrades and other stuff. It was installed by a technicial from the cable distributer, works fine and I think I will not touch it.

However the Jensen page brought another idea, although a little off-topic now: I have a minor hum from the main speakers feeded by the Mark Levs only when signals from the Mararntz are played back (i.e multichannel). This is an old phenomenon with my system, also the Marantz's predecessors suffered from it. It is not caused by the DX-5, you can plug off everything from the Marantz AV7005 and it remains as long as the AV7005 is connected to the No. 326S. A few years ago I tried some cheap 1:1 transformers to insulate, the hum was gone and the good sound too. From your experience as an engineer, can you comment on the audiophile qualities of the Jensen Iso-Max transformers (i.e. CI-2RR or PC-2XR) ?

A very good idea! Those bulbs are expensive!


Just remember that switching power supplies always create some level of noise. Many small LCD monitors actually have linear power supplies. You can tell in two ways:

a) A linear power supply will weigh a pound or two. A switching power supply almost feels like an empty box.

b) On the sticker there will be a voltage rating. A linear power supply can only accept one AC line voltage. A switcher will usually say "90~250 VAC" or something similar.

If you have a switcher, you can either replace it with a linear supply or connect it to a switched outlet strip. Or check the switch built into the power supply. Since there probably isn't a remote control, it doesn't need to leave the switching power supply running all the time. Then if the power switch on the supply is right next to the AC line cord and is a rocker switch with a stiff action, it may essentially have its own switched outlet strip built-in. The idea is when you are not using it to turn it ALL the way off -- something that is harder and harder to do in this age of remote controlled equipment. Clear as mud?

And yes, I meant it would be a waste of the DX-5's capabilities not to watch movies with it.

The general consensus is that the SSP-800 is the best sounding processor out there. Remember, they hired Alan Clark away from Linn, where he designed the CD-12 and other amazing products. And I'm confident that the DX-5 is the best player out there. Anytime you improve a link in the chain, things get better. I can't imagine you would be disappointed with the combo, but as always it is best to try it first before buying it.

Isn't it kind of anti-climactic to watch those cinematic, high-res blockbusters on a 7" screen?

I'm just kidding! Kal uses his multi-channel system for music only.

I have a bumper sticker on it that says "My other systems have HD displays....................but this one sounds better!"

If your projector has two HDMI inputs, this arrangement will give better picture quality (because the signal from the DX-5 is not going through any extra connectors and circuitry) and better sound quality (because the HDMI Audio Output has lower jitter than the HDMI A/V Output).

There are only two points to watch for:

a) When the HDMI Audio Output is connected to an active HDMI input on your processor, the Analog Audio Outputs will be turned off. Normally all that is required is to select a different input and the HDMI Audio Output will be turned off and the Analog Audio Outputs will be turned on.

b) I'm assuming that the composite video connection would go to a small (eg, 18cm) LCD monitor. Please refer to the other posts on the page for ideas on how to avoid the introduction of extra noise from its power supply.


Others on this forum may have more experience with this than I do, but satellite and cable connections are well-known for causing hum problems due to the extra ground connections. The Jensen is designed to isolate the ground connection and solve these problems. I don't see why it wouldn't work in your situation. I'm sure that it is a bi-directional device, fully capable of sending information back to the service provider.


Two things:

a) The Jensen transformers are probably the best sounding transformers you can get.

b) Even the best transformer will degrade the sound. Therefore I would try to solve the problem directly rather than put a "band-aid" on it.

Since you live in Germany where Schuko plugs are used, it is critical to properly orient the AC power cord on every single piece of equipment in your system. This will not only help to reduce (or eliminate) the hum, but also improve the sound quality noticeably.

If the hum still persists, it is probably the result of ground loops. The major cause of ground loops is the use of three-wire grounded power cords. This is a cheap way to ensure compliance with international safety standards. A better way is to use double-insulation and two-wire power cords with no AC safety ground.

(Ayre components are double-insulated. We only include three wire power cords to ensure that they are connected with the proper polarity to give the best sound quality. However, this doesn't work with Schuko plugs, and you will need to make some measurements to see which way is correct.)

In the US, one can purchase "cheater plugs" that disconnect the AC safety ground. These not only can eliminate hum problems, but if your entire system is "floated" with no AC ground connection, it will provide noticeably better sound quality.

NOTE!!! Using cheater plugs can kill you. Just like lightning can kill you. So if your stereo fails in such a way as to connect the AC mains voltage to the chassis, and you simultaneously touch the stereo ground at the same time you touch a cold water pipe, you could be seriously injured or killed.

The chances of this are about 100,000,000:1, but it can happen -- mostly with crappy equipment where the AC connections are made with spade lugs instead of soldering them, or with cheap Chinese transformers that are shoddily made.

If you die because you used cheater plugs, don't sue me!

I have all of my gear floated and have had for over ten years. In fact the house I'm living in now is the first one in thirty years that even had grounded outlets anyway! Many people will try to scare you and say that everything must be connected to the AC safety ground. Well, that is baloney. Look at any Japanese receiver and they all have two-wire AC cords.

And the fact of the matter is that if *any* of your connections are single-ended, it is impossible to get rid of all the hum if you also have AC safety ground connected. (Unless you use audio isolation transformers, but that degrades the sound and is expensive.)

I have my flame-proof suit on, so now everyone can tell me how stupid I am....

...and here I am biting my nails because I don't want to spend $210 on a Pioneer receiver....

I think I'll grow my nails out now, maybe even add some color.

Charles, you make an excellent device, but I'm only making half the cost of this DVD player annually right now.

The standby condition of these HDTVs and Mini Monitors can be switched off using a Niles AC-3 triggered switch with a 12V trigger. Just connect a trigger from your SSP or Receiver to the AC-3 and put a remote Macro for that trigger in your remote.
http://www.nilesaudio.com/product.ph...cordID=120Volt

So in an all Ayre system such as mine, does this mean that the electrical ground isn't connected to the system and that there would be no benefit in disconnecting the ground?

I've tested and changed polarity already, but this didn't improve. Currently, my music equipment is connected to a power line that consists of two 200VA 1:1 balancing transformers, one used for the analog components (No.326S, Transrotor turntable, and my P-5xe), the other for the digital sources (DX-5 and Krell Evo505), with components not grounded as required by german VDE regulations when using balancing transformers and no need to look at polarity here due to the symmetrical (+/- 115V) power supply. The ML No.436 are connected via a high current lowpass filter and grounded and checked for correct polarity. The music system itsself is entirely free of hum! The video part stands aside and is connected to power separately. I also tested its connection (in both polarities) to the big power line used for the music stuff, but no improvement. I believe the hum to be caused by the long cable (12,5m) between the Marantz (two line powered!) and the 326S and the hum appeared with all combinations of AV-amps and preamps/power amps I ever had in the last 20 years irrespective of polarity and type of power connections.

To my knowledge, cheater plugs are forbidden in Germany, so this post is not from my grave and I'm still alive...

Don't spend $210 on a Pioneer receiver. Buy used gear. I bet you can get something at a garage sale or a thrift store for $25 (seriously!). It won't decode the latest lossless surround formats, but no big deal. A lot of the older receivers sound better than the new ones -- no switching power supplies, no class D amplifier modules.

Heck you could even buy a two-channel receiver (probably for $10!). HT 2.0 can sound darned good. That's all I ever listen to. And if you get a hankering for surround you can make the earliest version for no more than the cost of two more speakers (and some wire). It was first marketed by Dynaco about 40 years ago and they called it "Dynaquad". They sold an adapter box for $19.95 back then, but you don't even need that. It's a simple matrix system, and is the entire basis of Dolby Pro Logic. DPL just added what they call "steering" that boosts the gain of the loudest channel to make it sound more "impressive". Just do an internet search on "Dynaquad".

Good luck with the job search!

See, you guys know all the cool stuff!

That is a great tip and a lot easier than reaching behind your cabinet for the switch on the power strip that you put there because it is so darned ugly! Thanks for the great idea!

All of our equipment has been built with double-insulation and two-wire power since about 2000 or 2001. Anything built after that doesn't have an AC safety ground connection, so there is no need to use "cheater" plugs.

But since this is the AVS Forum, you probably at least have a display and possibly a powered subwoofer or surround processor, all items that we don't make. I have found that the best sound is achieved when the entire system is floating, so those other components would need cheater plugs.

Don't forget to orient the power cord. The smaller hole in the AC wall plate (US only) is "hot" and has the voltage on it. The larger hole (not the the D-shaped ground hole) has no voltage on it and is essentially equivalent to ground. The power transformer is also asymmetric in its physical construction, so one connection will have a higher AC leakage current to the chassis (signal ground!) than the other. The orientation with the lower leakage current will sound better. Ayre components are all oriented properly but most manufacturers leave it up to chance and you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right. It's a somewhat lengthy process to describe, but an internet search will yield instructions.

I'm going back to an earlier post. I've thought about this some more in light of the new information posted below, specifically that (presumably single-ended) cables between the surround receiver (now a Marantz) and the two-channel Levinson preamp are 12.5 meters (40 feet!) long.

I think the basic problem is that you have created a large ground loop (one reason we focus on fully-balanced circuitry). When the loop is broken (by adding transformers), the hum goes away. So the question is how else can we break the ground loop?

To answer that, we must first understand what a ground loop is. In its most basic form, it is exactly what it says -- two ground wires between two components that form a loop.

The next question is "Why does a ground loop introduce hum into a system"? The answer is that a large loop of wire creates a secondary circuit of a transformer. The wiring in the walls of your house creates the primary. So the magnetic field from your house wiring induces a voltage in the pair of interconnects.

It is very easy to test if this is the problem. Power down your system, and then disconnect one of the interconnects at both ends. Leave the other interconnect hooked up. Then power your system up again and listen for hum. If the hum is gone, the problem is a ground loop. We can talk about answers once we have the results of the test.

Thanks Charles for the interesting suggestion. I understood the idea but the test results are as follows:

If I disrupt the left channel of the Marantz-ML326S interconnection, the hum is gone on the left channel but still remains on the right channel. Interrupting the right channel results in a vice versa observation.

OK, then the hum is not due to a ground loop from the two cables. I can only think of two possibilities. One is that the cable has poor shielding and such a long length picks up some hum. However, I cannot believe this is the case. In a recording studio they always use balanced, but that is because the microphone level is at least 100x smaller than what is in your system.

So the only thing that is left is a ground loop on the AC safety ground between the preamp and processor. One idea is to make sure everything is grounded normally. You can try removing the "balancing" transformers and simply plug everything straight into the wall outlets.

Or you could try disconnecting the digital sources temporarily and use that transformer on the Marantz. I wouldn't play any music, as then it might draw too much power. But I'm sure with no signal that the (200 VA) transformer could power the Marantz.

Or if there is such a thing as a "cheater" plug to disconnect the ground, then you could use those and plug straight into the wall.

Or you could replace the ML preamp with an Ayre preamp that has no ground connection! (If you are thinking about this, I would borrow one from your dealer first to make sure that it solves the problem.)

Since I had the problem even when I did not yet use the balancing transformers and everything was connected to the wall sockets directly and I also used a different cable, maybe the best compromise is to look for a good transformer pair like the Jensen you recommended. Thanks for your time anyway and have a good 2011!

Since the Marantz has only single-ended connections, there is no possibility of using balanced connections. The simplest solution will be transformers, and I think the Jensen will be the best you can find.

Both the US and German versions of the SR7005 receiver only have two-wire power, so there cannot be a problem with a ground loop from there:

http://de.marantz.eu/images/content/...b_lightbox.jpg

But there must be some component (eg, projector, cable box, etc.) that has a ground. This ground is at a different potential than the music system ground that is 12.5 meters away. It can be difficult to eliminate the hum from one system. But it becomes much harder when two systems are connected together. Certainly the transformers will be the simplest solution. Let us know how it sounds!

Funny you would mention the projector as that's where my ground loop hid in my system. Floated the ground with a cheater plug on the projector and it diminished to almost inaudible unless you did the ear to tweeter thing. Went away completely when I swapped out the single ended B&K amp(only non balanced component that was in my system) with a Mark Levinson that was balanced!

I'm using the AV7005 preamp, not the SR7005 receiver. The AV7005 has symmetrical connections:

http://de.marantz.eu/de/zoom/?image=...3f75a_zoom.jpg


I use these for connecting the MM7055 power amp driving two center seakers and two surround speakers. Unfortunately, all symmetrical inputs of the ML are already in use (DX-5, P-5xe, Krell Evolution 505) and you will agree that these NEED symmetrical connections for best sound. A question of priority. To connect the Marantz, I use an XLR-cinch cable (using HOT and GND and with COLD and GND not shortened on the Marantz side, as mentioned in the Marantz' manual). Should I try the cinch sockets of the Marantz?

Progress. I've isolated the source of the hum. It's indeed the cable receiver. Removing its connection to the cable (antenna) and the hum was gone. So as you recommended in post 869, an isolation transformer should work. Interestingly, nobody seems to sell these SAT-type isolators with F-plugs here in Germany. The European Jensen distributor is Italy-based. What I have here is an isolator from german vendor HAMA that has normal coaxial antenna plugs (http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId*...omfilter?lid=1). I had used it for the predecessor cable receiver, before the current HDTV receiver arrived. It worked, although it is not specified for cable tv (see link). HAMA also sells F-Plug to coaxial adapter sets (http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId*...5str.jpg&lid=1). Might this work (especially regarding the return channel of the HDTV receiver) ?

I had the very same problem with my cable being the noise source. Since my cable comes into the house near my electrical panel, I simply ran a ground wire from the cable junction/splitter to the same ground all my A/V is attached to. The noise was then gone. An unbelievably simply solution to a problem that had cost me a ton of time and anguish diagnosing...sound familiar? Is this something you can try?

Great idea, I just improvised it and it seems to work...Will establish a stable installation anf let's see! Thanks for the suggestion.

OK, the stable installation required 20 minutes: Connecting the shield of an antenna cable to the ground connectors of an empty schuko-connector, plug the antenna side into a yet unused antenna outlet and the other side into a power socket directly neighbored. This socket contains the ground used for my entire system and....silence!
Cable Radio and cable TV still work fine.

Thanks!

Happy New Year!

An A/V improvement for less that four figures! Surprise!!!!

Happy to help...or should I say, "lucky I helped."

Yes, happy new year to you too, sorry, I forgot...

It'll be interesting to hear Charles' opinion on that simple solution.