AVR254, Sansui S-517...what else?

EDIT: You can skip this whole post if you want, since it's long; the main thing I'm looking for is some info on my Sansui S-517 speakers. I know nothing about them aside from the 65 watt max rating. Thanks!


Hello everyone, I'm new here though I've been "lurking" for a while. I'm a fairly active member over at Head-Fi if that counts for anything. Also I apologize in advance if this post is in the wrong forum, it seemed like the most appropriate. Anyways, I just bought the beginnings of what I hope will be a pretty good little HT setup, at least as good as I can do with a tiny budget and a tiny room. As the title of the thread suggests, I just bought a h/k AVR 254 and a pair of Sansui S-517 (the speakers I know nothing about). They were both won on eBay so I have neither of them yet.

First off, Google is useless when it comes to finding information about the S-517s, so I was hoping someone here could shed some light on them for me. I have no idea how they sound, just figured I know the Sansui name was a good name so it'd be hard to go wrong there, and I needed a pair of somewhat full-range speakers for my fronts; also I'm a big believer in the traditional fat stubby type speakers Sansui made, the ones with a 15" woofer in them and something like three 6" horns and three 5" midranges. I'm not sure if these speakers will need a sub right away yet, I suppose I'll make that decision when I get them and hook them up. They each contain an 8" woofer, 4" mid and 2" tweeter. Only wattage rating on them is "65 max" on the back (hopefully the AVR won't blow them! ) The only thing wrong with them as far as I know is half of the bottom two fins over the tweeter in the right speaker are broken off, I'm hoping this won't affect the sound too much.

I suppose at this point I'm looking for anyone's thoughts on my purchases thus far and any suggestions as to where I should progress from here. I know it's a little early to be posting this but I'm impatient, and I can always post again later when I have more info and such. Now I'll give some info about my listening habits and room. My main concern is music. I need a musical system. I do play a lot of video games and watch a lot of movies, but even then, I find myself less concerned with the sound of the explosions in the game or movie and more concerned with how good the music playing in the background sounds.

My room is very small and very crowded. I don't have dimensions right now but if I had to take a wild guess I would say (Edit: Changed dimensions) 8'x11'x7'. It's a sealed room. There are only two places I can think of I can put a sub right now, I'll explain these better when I get pictures of my room up here. I'll do that when I remember to take some.

I was thinking, once I have the money, I would buy a SVS PC12-NSD sub and maybe some Klipsch surrounds/centre (because they're known for their mids and highs, and look pretty to boot), but none of this is decided yet; just my most recent thoughts.

Right now I'm just using a set of Logitech X-540 speakers I bought on sale for $60 when I first moved here, and I've been stuck with these far too long. Think the combo I just bought from eBay will be an improvement over these computer speakers? I should hope it would be. I know this is a very long winded post, but I figure it's my first so I should make a good impression

Here's a picture of the speakers in question, from the eBay listing. I'm thinking maybe I should just buy a manual...

Still looking for some info about these speakers. Anyone have any ideas at all? Even what year they were manufactured in? Anyone used similar speakers, such as speakers from the same line?

I found that first link in Google too but I didn't put much stock in it since it just seems to default to listing 1970 for all the products it has no info for. The 2nd one I must have overlooked. About the centre channel, it'll be a while before I'm able to look for one so I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. I'll just try and match by sound (once I've got a good handle on how my Sansui speakers sound). If I can't find a match I'll just get a good centre + two matching surrounds then eventually replace the Sansui's if I don't like the result.

I've been looking through threads about subwoofers and I've read threads about brand like Epik and Rocket for musical subs but I wasn't able to find/gain access to their websites. I'm about to try again now, might have just been a temporary thing. For the sub $500 range am I on the right track? I know it's hard to get a decent sub for that kind of money but that's what I've got to work with on the kind of money I'm making right now. I was thinking about getting a Dayton C1500K but I've also read that's not a very musical sub (though I'm used to a cheap 8" Sony sub, SA-WM250 I believe, which I thought sounded pretty good, so I'm sure it's much better than that anyway).

EDIT: I suppose I could stretch my subwoofer budget a bit, maybe to $600 (that would be shipped to Canada), but keep in mind my room is very small and my main requirement is music, not thunderous home theatre bass.

I don't consider myself an audiophile (notice my title, my roommates call me an audiophile but I don't think I am ) or overly picky about matching timbre and that kind of thing, just trying to get the most for my money (of which there isn't much, unfortunately ). As long as I end up with speakers that compliment each-other and sound good, and I figure out how to calibrate them all properly, since I doubt I could possibly equip my room with any kind of acoustic treatments due to space limitations, I'll be happy. Thanks for the advice.

EDIT: Oh, also the AV123 site is working now, couldn't access it last night for whatever reason. Unfortunately the subs on that website seem out of my price range, unless I'm missing some. SVS is more appealing than Rocket at this point. I'll check out eD. Any specific suggestions from eD?

Sorry bout the double post but Outlaw is another Sub manufacturer I'm looking at, specifically the LFM-1. I'm looking at the A5s-300 from eD, I was looking at the SB12-Plus from SVS but I've concluded that it's a little more than I'm willing to spend before shipping so I moved to the PC12-NSD (cylinder subwoofer, probably would work the best in my room in terms of space efficiency) and the VTF-2 MK3 from HSU. Not sure about Velodyne as their website isn't category orientated and doesn't list MSRPa. I'm lazy so I haven't sifted through their site yet or looked anywhere else for Velodyne products.

So far I like the A5s-300, reminds me of the SB12-Plus which looked ideal before I saw the price.

Also, another question, about parametric EQs for subs: I understand the AVR254 I bought has h/k's own built-in automatic room correction for the speakers, similar to Audyessy or MCACC, etc. Does this include a parametric EQ or similar levelling system for subwoofers? If not I might be interested in some kind of automatic sub-levelling system since I have no idea how to use one myself; I imagine it would involve a lot of trial and error with an SPL meter but I'm lazy and unwilling. I'll do it manually if I have to or can for a good price, but I won't like it.

EDIT: Rhythmik Audio's website is the site I couldn't get working, not AV123's. It's still not working.

EDIT 2: Damn my poor memory. I also looked at Epik subwoofers but they're out of my price range as well. I wouldn't mind finding an Epik Valor though.

EDIT 3: Yeah I realize this isn't the subwoofer forum, I may make a thread there eventually too. I imagine a lot of people frequent both forums (I myself usually just use the "new posts" button).

I do now. I haven't done much research on shipping, etc. yet, just been looking at the subs themselves. I'm not quite ready to buy one yet, just looking things up early.

Wow, those are a lot more expensive than the SVS website, I guess that's the added cost of importing them etc. I think I've decided what to get for a sub; craigsub has made me an offer I can't refuse.

Got the h/k AVR254 today, but still no speakers or RS-232 cable so I can't test it or update it yet. I suppose I could use my headphones. If I had two more RCA male to 1/8" female I could use the pre-outs on the AVR254 the same way as a computer sound card and use my crappy computer speakers with it at least until I got my Sansui's.

Finally took some pics, they're pretty poor but they're the best I can do.







First two pics are of the first place I could fit a subwoofer. As you can see not much space to work with (especially if I have to move my bass amp and put an audio rack there instead). Second pic is of the second place I could place a subwoofer, it's in the small closet which is right next to my couch so it would be nearfield I'd have to relocate my laundry basket. Third pic is of my horribly crowded desk where I was planning to put the Sansui speakers, but I'm not going to put one on top of my receiver, so I think I may have to buy a rack as I mentioned and put the receiver there instead. I was thinking of ripping the front off one of the drawers and cutting holes in the back for cables then run a computer fan to it for air ventilation, but the receiver is taller than the drawers so that's a no-go.

BTW, those are guitar hero/rock band guitars in the space in my desk, not real ones, so don't get too concerned.

UPDATE: After getting everything hooked up I have a very confounding issue with my AVR254. I've posted it in the "Official AVR254/354 owners thread". I'd appreciate anyone's insight into this issue...I have no idea what could be causing it. It's a video issue btw.

Other than this very annoying and confusing issue I love the 254 so far. My awesome roommate picked me up some adapters so I was able to hook up my computer speakers to the pre-outs. Doesn't work very well but I didn't really expect it to..it'll do until I get the Sansui's. I'll probably mainly be using my headphones 'till then.

I was afraid someone would say that. Damn, that sucks. If I had known about that before buying the 254 I would've bought something else. Since I bought it from eBay I can't exactly return it for a different receiver...can I hope for a firmware update in the future to fix this or is it a hardware problem?

Got the new speakers, here's a pic of them on my desk:




And, here's a (poor) pic of my shelf which I had to buy to put everything that was on my desk on :



I really need to buy a real camera. The camera in my phone doesn't cut it.

Anyway, I really like the speakers. They don't sound as good as I was expecting (in the bass response category), but that's okay. They're still lightyears ahead of what I was using before. They look good too. If nothing else they'll tide me over until I can afford to buy better ones. I'm hard to buy speakers for. My problem is I don't really have a way to audition very many good (for the price) speakers locally, so I have to pretty well rely entirely on reviews and impressions from various sources and hope for the best. When I think of bookshelf speakers I think of speakers with good midrange and treble but poor bass response (like the speakers I have now); I don't know if that's true of all bookshelf speakers, in fact I'm sure it's not, but it influences my preferences nonetheless.

Unfortunately I don't have much of a choice when it comes to my room...it's very small and I need to make things fit. The best spot there was for a subwoofer is now claimed by the audio rack. I suppose I could move the rack into my closet (the other spot I could put a subwoofer) if I needed to but that would be a pain. I would need to run two HDMI cables across my floor or buy long enough ones that I can route out of the way, and neither of those options are appealing to me, though having the rack right next to the couch would be a lot more convenient. It seems I've run myself out of good options Either I buy a sub and place it nearfield, right next to my couch in the closet, or I bite the bullet and order two 20' or so HDMI cables from Monoprice and move the rack. Any suggestions as to which option is better? Also, is there a maximum recommended HDMI cable length?

It really isn't much of a closet, more like a two foot indentation in the side of my room, which happens to be right next to me couch. Where I'd place the sub is where the white basket currently is. I'll see if I can get a better picture of the whole area...hang on.

The second picture is pretty well the same thing that's already been posted above. The first picture gives a good idea of the size of my room and how big the closet is...the h/k box is where I'd put either my rack or the sub. The more I think about it the more I think it's a better idea to move the rack and put the sub in the corner as was originally intended, though I would have to do something about the clothes in the closet...but I can figure that out, the most important thing is the sound! It's hard to really show in a picture how big this room is...I can't really move back far enough to get a decent picture. The first picture was taken with my back against the wall opposite the closet.

The rack is far enough off to the side that it doesn't distract me. On the AVR254 you can dim the front panel by 50%, 75% or turn it off completely so that's not an issue anyway. It would be more convenient to have it right next to me though so I don't have to crawl over my bed in order to plug in my headphones

Ah, fair enough. Yeah sorry about the terrible pictures, the only camera I have is in my phone and even then this room is so small it's hard to give a good perspective about where everything is in one picture, or even two. My audio rack is right next to the big desk with my TV and speakers, to it's right. There's a little bit of room between it and the wall, about 6". Hopefully I did a decent enough job of showing where the "closet" is in comparison to everything.

Do you still hold onto your opinion of not placing a sub in this closet, or do you not think it would be a big deal considering how small it (and the room) is? Even if you think it'd be alright I think I would still prefer to move the rack and put the sub there, next to the desk in the corner. I suppose I'll do the placement test, put the sub on my couch then listen from both spots and decide that way. Know of any good music/movies to do this test with? I imagine I'd want to get a good sweep of all the frequencies the sub would be outputting, or is there a certain frequency which will be a good indicator of whether the sub would work there or not?

I have a problem with the speakers. The left speaker, the one with the broken fins, is having an issue with the midrange driver; it's not producing sound. The tweeter wasn't either but I managed to fix that, the wire had just come off the terminal due to a very loose connection, I slid the connector back over the terminal and applied a dab of Goop to keep it there (since I don't have a soldering iron or a pair of pliers handy to squeeze the connector tighter, they're the type that just slide over then you squeeze them on, not sure what they're called). The midrange driver is hooked up properly as far as I can tell but still produces no sound. I hope it's not dead, I'd probably never find an original replacement.

There's no crossover, just resistors on the positive wires to the midrange and tweeter drivers. The tweeter has a 2.2uf resistor, and I can't read the midrange resistor because it's secured to the cab with the writing facing down. You can't actually open these cabs, the only means of service is to remove the drivers via their screws. Any suggestions? The right speaker is in perfect condition, both in appearance and performance.

The thing about that is the speakers themselves were only $25 but I paid $80 for shipping. I don't know if shipping is covered or not, and if he wants the speakers back I'd probably have to pay return shipping which wouldn't make it worth it. They were listed in "great condition" with the only problems listed being the broken fins which are in the pics above in the thread, and a couple of small holes in the grills which I'm not using anyway. He failed to list the problems with the cabs, how the veneer around the joints is peeling, etc. and obviously the non-working driver. The connector for the tweeter was very loose so I can imagine it falling off during shipping, but the midrange driver seems to not work at all. I'd rather try and fix them than file a complaint, buit I did send an email to the seller before posting here.

Thanks fool. I'll wait a day or two for a reply to the email I sent the seller, and if I don't get a response, I'll open a dispute. If the dispute doesn't get his attention I'll escalate it and go from there. Not a very good start to my first HT build...