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Official JVC RS25/HD950 Owners Thread! - Page 2

post #31 of 1011
RonF:


It's nice to be in touch with you.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think THX mode is more suited for films than games. Couldn't This be the reason why It had not a good performance in your game, showing unnatural colors. It's just a hunch.


It seems this projector have specific modes for what you see. What mode allow me the question, please, you watched the game?
post #32 of 1011
I watched it in User 1 where Jason's calibration resides. I have a Hi Power and my setup is perfect for it. One seat right below the projector, right next to both sides and right behind and above it. So I leave the custom color 1 settings alone and only slightly adjust contrast, brightness and saturation if any are needed depending on the source and my personal preferences. The "color police" were right.....I love it!

This is one fine RS25. Very good convergence, sharp as a tack and motion blur is very much reduced from the earlier RS models. The FI isn't really needed for sports in my opinion from what I've seen so far.

That's an interesting question as to whether the THX setting is specifically meant for watching films or not. Maybe someone else has more informed opinion.

Edit...I've had an RS1 and RS2 but have never seen an RS20, so I really can't say first hand that the motion blur is reduced from that. But Jason made a point of mentioning he thought it was much improved when he gave his first impressions.
post #33 of 1011
Anyone here that owns the RS25/950 see a big difference in brightness compared to the rs20/hd750?
post #34 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Edit...I've had an RS1 and RS2 but have never seen an RS20, so I really can't say first hand that the motion blur is reduced from that. But Jason made a point of mentioning he thought it was much improved when he gave his first impressions.

I don't remember reading this in Jason's review ...?
post #35 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver700 View Post

Anyone here that owns the RS25/950 see a big difference in brightness compared to the rs20/hd750?

Compared to the 750 at the dealer (100 hours on the bulb). Yes if you mean the level of peak whites. I have stated elsewhere that I find the image more punchy as a result on my 950. The 550 (10 hours on the bulb) was very punchy compared to the 750. But the 750 seemed more cinematic/film like. The 950 has more punch whilst retaining the cinematic feel. I don't know how much of this could be down to the bulb difference so I hesitate to state anything too absolute as I don't have measuring equipment. Another poster on here, did comment that the ANSI contrast was better, and also commented on the image being more punchy.

However I have seen other posts saying there is no difference at all, and that the 950 is just a 750 with FI added. My own experience does not indicate that.
post #36 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I don't remember reading this in Jason's review ...?

See below John:

"SHARPNESS: I mentioned earlier that there were some optical improvements to these pieces. Now though they weren’t full intended on improving the sharpness, I found that both the RS15 and RS25 were noticeably sharper than their previous counterparts. I wouldn’t say it was a night a day difference, but if compared side to side, one could definitely see it. Improvement is always a good thing. One more thing to note is that in doing the before mentioned optical improvement, they were also able to reduce edge breakdown during motion. For instance, usually on most projectors if one is watching a sporting event, the black and white stripes of a referee's shirt tend to break down along the edges. With this improvement, that has been eliminated, which is increasingly important when using frame interpolation ("Clearmotion"...see below)."

Unless "motion blur" is a different artifact, but I just know it looks much better now than on the RS1 & 2 in this area.
post #37 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

See below John:

"SHARPNESS: I mentioned earlier that there were some optical improvements to these pieces. Now though they weren't full intended on improving the sharpness, I found that both the RS15 and RS25 were noticeably sharper than their previous counterparts. I wouldn't say it was a night a day difference, but if compared side to side, one could definitely see it. Improvement is always a good thing. One more thing to note is that in doing the before mentioned optical improvement, they were also able to reduce edge breakdown during motion. For instance, usually on most projectors if one is watching a sporting event, the black and white stripes of a referee's shirt tend to break down along the edges. With this improvement, that has been eliminated, which is increasingly important when using frame interpolation ("Clearmotion"...see below)."

Unless "motion blur" is a different artifact, but I just know it looks much better now than on the RS1 & 2 in this area.

Motion blur is a different artifact. When people speak of motion blur with the JVCs they are generally referring to a softening of the image, a loss of resolution or "blurring" when the image moves (for instance during camera pans or action). Similar to the way LCDs tended to smear motion compared to other technologies like plasma or DLP. (That is, until recent "band-aid" innovations like using frame interpolation to sharpen moving images).
post #38 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

See below John:

"SHARPNESS: I mentioned earlier that there were some optical improvements to these pieces. Now though they weren't full intended on improving the sharpness, I found that both the RS15 and RS25 were noticeably sharper than their previous counterparts. I wouldn't say it was a night a day difference, but if compared side to side, one could definitely see it. Improvement is always a good thing. One more thing to note is that in doing the before mentioned optical improvement, they were also able to reduce edge breakdown during motion. For instance, usually on most projectors if one is watching a sporting event, the black and white stripes of a referee's shirt tend to break down along the edges. With this improvement, that has been eliminated, which is increasingly important when using frame interpolation ("Clearmotion"...see below)."

Unless "motion blur" is a different artifact, but I just know it looks much better now than on the RS1 & 2 in this area.

The referee/zebra strips issue that has been around since the RS1 is my biggest pet peeve with this line of JVCs. I see it often. Oddly it is much worse when objects move from right to left than from left to right. If you want to see this in fully glory try the Misc. patterns on the AVS HD 709 calibration disc. And yes, its not just with test patterns, you can clearly see this same affect often when watching regular content (scrolling news tickets, referees etc).

So, needless to say I will be delighted if it turns out that this artifact is indeed 100% resolved. I'm not sure how, but I also assume such a fix will also improve the image in other ways.
post #39 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I don't remember reading this in Jason's review ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Motion blur is a different artifact. When people speak of motion blur with the JVCs they are generally referring to a softening of the image, a loss of resolution or "blurring" when the image moves (for instance during camera pans or action). Similar to the way LCDs tended to smear motion compared to other technologies like plasma or DLP. (That is, until recent "band-aid" innovations like using frame interpolation to sharpen moving images).

What I saw with the RS1 and didn't really know how to put in words was during sports sometimes the edges of moving players such as in basketball and football seemed to breakup and become "not so solid" or "blurry" during fast movement. Might even have been worse with some broadcasts than others? The RS2 I'm thinking not quite as much noticed, especially after an Edge and Flea were put in line as well. Now with the 25 it looks much better. Whatever the FI with its current firmware is doing, it doesn't overall to me seem on low setting to be really adding anything, so for now for most part not using it. Certainly not on movies.
post #40 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

The referee/zebra strips issue that has been around since the RS1 is my biggest pet peeve with this line of JVCs. I see it often. Oddly it is much worse when objects move from right to left than from left to right. If you want to see this in fully glory try the Misc. patterns on the AVS HD 709 calibration disc. And yes, its not just with test patterns, you can clearly see this same affect often when watching regular content (scrolling news tickets, referees etc).

I don't see this at all on my RS20, even using the patterns on the AVS disk.
post #41 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I don't see this at all on my RS20, even using the patterns on the AVS disk.

Which pattern were you using to check this?

The pattern I am referring to can be found on the AVS HD 709 v1.3 PATCHED disc. In the Misc. Patterns menu, Section I "deinterlacing pattern (1080i)". It cannot be missed with this pattern. Please give it a try. I would be really surprised if it looks nice and clean on your RS20. Instead I anticipate you will see the moving boxes turn pink as the slide, particularly when moving right to left.

Please give it a try when you have a chance and drop a line back with what you saw. Thanks.
post #42 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I don't see this at all on my RS20, even using the patterns on the AVS disk.

I'm afraid I do see the red fringes on the 'zebra' black-white striped shirts, esp when the scene pans across them. Not much different than with my RS1, but it's not a big deal. Still, would be nicer not to have them.
post #43 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Which pattern were you using to check this?

The pattern I am referring to can be found on the AVS HD 709 v1.3 PATCHED disc. In the Misc. Patterns menu, Section I "deinterlacing pattern (1080i)". It cannot be missed with this pattern. Please give it a try. I would be really surprised if it looks nice and clean on your RS20. Instead I anticipate you will see the moving boxes turn pink as the slide, particularly when moving right to left.

Please give it a try when you have a chance and drop a line back with what you saw. Thanks.

I'll check again later tonight.

I have never seen this artifact at all, FWIW, not even on my RS1. Could be that I will curse you tomorrow for pointing it how to spot it.
post #44 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I'll check again later tonight.

I have never seen this artifact at all, FWIW, not even on my RS1. Could be that I will curse you tomorrow for pointing it how to spot it.

A quick way to look for it in regular material is to put on CNN in HD at 1080i and look at the scrolling ticker. It looks better than on my RS1, but still has some signs of the red fringing. Also if you have a PS3 there is a ticker in the top right corner on the main menuing system. Since PS3 firmware 3.0 now uses finer, smaller text for this ticker the problem has been worse. And of course you can see it when watching the NFL. Just watch the refs jerseys.
post #45 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I'll check again later tonight.

I have never seen this artifact at all, FWIW, not even on my RS1. Could be that I will curse you tomorrow for pointing it how to spot it.

FWIW, I've never seen it on my RS1 either... and I'm not gonna look for it. (Hands over ears: "lalalalal")
post #46 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

A quick way to look for it in regular material is to put on CNN in HD at 1080i and look at the scrolling ticker. It looks better than on my RS1, but still has some signs of the red fringing. Also if you have a PS3 there is a ticker in the top right corner on the main menuing system. Since PS3 firmware 3.0 now uses finer, smaller text for this ticker the problem has been worse. And of course you can see it when watching the NFL. Just watch the refs jerseys.

I have looked very carefully at ref's jerseys. I have also looked at tickers. Like Sargent Schultz, "I see nothing."

If I curse you later, I hope that you understand.
post #47 of 1011
Glad to see this thread started. Had mine for about a week now and very happy thusfar but I am coming from a Dwin TV3E so obviously it's a huge upgrade in just about every category. I am projecting onto a 123" diag(1.78, 9 ft wide) Stewart Firehawk Microperf and the image has a great pop to it. I am still playing around with the different settings but agree with most of what I am seeing in the posts above. I'd like to go to an Anamorphic Lens and 12' Wide 2.35 screen but I'm not sure this machine will be able to provide the satisfying FL(brightness) at that size. Looking forward to sharing feedback and getting tips from some of the great members of this forum.

Ben
post #48 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I'm afraid I do see the red fringes on the 'zebra' black-white striped shirts, esp when the scene pans across them. Not much different than with my RS1, but it's not a big deal. Still, would be nicer not to have them.

I'd also like to hear if this artifact has gone away with the RS25. It's much lessened on the RS20 than on my RS1 and I thought initially that it was gone, but I do see it with some NFL games.
post #49 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

I'd also like to hear if this artifact has gone away with the RS25. It's much lessened on the RS20 than on my RS1 and I thought initially that it was gone, but I do see it with some NFL games.

Hi Mark - if you are curious try the pattern I describe here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17313487
post #50 of 1011
Does anyone know if the mounting holes for the RS25/35 are identical to the RS20? I've been trying to download a RS20 user manual to check this against the info in the RS25/35 manual but the download will not complete for some reason.
post #51 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Which pattern were you using to check this?

The pattern I am referring to can be found on the AVS HD 709 v1.3 PATCHED disc. In the Misc. Patterns menu, Section I "deinterlacing pattern (1080i)". It cannot be missed with this pattern. Please give it a try. I would be really surprised if it looks nice and clean on your RS20. Instead I anticipate you will see the moving boxes turn pink as the slide, particularly when moving right to left.

Please give it a try when you have a chance and drop a line back with what you saw. Thanks.

I just tried this on a 950. I am not sure quite what I am looking for. There are some funny glitches (distortions/ slight shimmer) as the boxes slide back and forth. But I do not see anything turn pink at all.
post #52 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I just tried this on a 950. I am not sure quite what I am looking for. There are some funny glitches (distortions/ slight shimmer) as the boxes slide back and forth. But I do not see anything turn pink at all.

Thanks for the feedback Jon and for checking this! Basically the best way to describe it is this - on the RS20 (and presumably all other models prior to the RS15/25/35), as the boxes slide horizontally the thin white lines that run through the boxes turn light red.

In other words, if you look at the boxes closely (OTTOMH) you will see they are made up of intermittent lines/pixels, which forms a white or gray lines within the boxes. As the slide those intermittent lines turn from gray/white to a redish/pink. As soon as the boxes stop sliding, it turns back to its normal color.

If you do not see any red fringing in the box while it is sliding, so that its color is the same as when it stops at the edges, then we have good reason to believe it is resolved.

Also please try watching CNN HD or another HD channel in 1080i and watch the scrolling new ticker at the bottom. Does it look nice and white? If the issue is resolved then you should not notice ANY color change in the ticker when you pause your DVR. For instance on the RS20 it looks fairly white, but then when you pause the DVR to freeze the ticker from moving, you can see it instantly turn a more solid white.

Oh and another thing to check if possible - do you have a PS3, or any other way to display 720p? If so, please have it display 720p and then switch to a 1080i signal. Try switching back and forth a few times. Do you get a random splash of color on the screen for a split second (somewhere between 25-100% of the screen turns a certain color for a split sec)? This is something else that would be nice if they have resolved it.
post #53 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for the feedback Jon and for checking this! Basically the best way to describe it is this - on the RS20 (and presumably all other models prior to the RS15/25/35), as the boxes slide horizontally the thin white lines that run through the boxes turn light red.

In other words, if you look at the boxes closely (OTTOMH) you will see they are made up of intermittent lines/pixels, which forms a white or gray lines within the boxes. As the slide those intermittent lines turn from gray/white to a redish/pink. As soon as the boxes stop sliding, it turns back to its normal color.

If you do not see any red fringing in the box while it is sliding, so that its color is the same as when it stops at the edges, then we have good reason to believe it is resolved.

Also please try watching CNN HD or another HD channel in 1080i and watch the scrolling new ticker at the bottom. Does it look nice and white? If the issue is resolved then you should not notice ANY color change in the ticker when you pause your DVR. For instance on the RS20 it looks fairly white, but then when you pause the DVR to freeze the ticker from moving, you can see it instantly turn a more solid white.

Oh and another thing to check if possible - do you have a PS3, or any other way to display 720p? If so, please have it display 720p and then switch to a 1080i signal. Try switching back and forth a few times. Do you get a random splash of color on the screen for a split second (somewhere between 25-100% of the screen turns a certain color for a split sec)? This is something else that would be nice if they have resolved it.


Okay. At first I didn't pick up on any colour tint. But when I hit the pause button, the whites do become whiter. When I start again, there is slight pinkish tinge, but its pretty much to the whole screen regardless of movement direction. Unless I hit pause, the tint does not stop at all even when the boxes change direction. When the boxes move left to right or right to left has no effect on this. The only thing I noted is that when the boxes move left, there is more glitchiness, its not as smooth. So I am wondering if the colouration is due to the de-interlacing rather than the motion issue you refer to. I do remember seeing an issue on just 1 or 2 occasions with the HD1 on scrolling credits. If the credits scrolled up very fast and were white on black, you saw a red after trail as if red was lagging behind. So I think I don't tune into this issue as easily as you do.

I don't have a PS3 connected currently and as I am in the UK I don't have CNN HD. I do have lots of HD channels but none have scrolling tickers it seems.

But as I don't see any difference in behaviour between the boxes moving left or right, something has probably changed from earlier models. I will do some more tests tomorrow.
post #54 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbot75 View Post

Got mine today - Thanks Jason!

Don't get excited though - I'm just a newb..

Here are my impressions:

I upgraded from a BenQ 8720 so this is my first 1080p, LCOS, High Contrast projector.
My main fear was losing the "wow" and "pop" by switching from DLP to LCOS.
When I upgraded from my Panny AE700 to the BenQ I immediately noticed a new amazing level of clarity & vibrancy. I was really hoping not to give that up when switching to the RS25 for increased contrast and a more cinematic experience.

Any single chip DLP owners with this same concern can (in my opinion) lay their fears to rest. I'm still seeing that same level of clarity and vibrancy in the image and it actually looks even richer now due to the contrast boost.

Jason calibrated my projector and the difference in color over my last projector is appreciable.
The one tweak I'd like to make is switching the gamma from Normal to Custom 2.4
This really seems to give the image the pop I love but I'm concerned that doing this will negate Jason's professional work. Would this be true?

So far I've only spent 90 minutes with it after setup and that was mostly spent watching parts of the Dark Knight and playing around with my PS3 and 360. You can really tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with games but I didn't notice the resolution bump during the movie. My wife is holding a movie night with her friends so I'm stuck upstairs writing about it rather than enjoying it

I've been holding on to Braveheart and Gladiator (Yes I like movies with gladiators..) on blu ray for when this projector arrived so I'll be checking them out this weekend and playing with the iris to see which setting gives me the right mix of brightness and black levels for movies.

I'd like to thank all of the experts and enthusiasts on this forum. I've read through hundreds of posts for multiple projectors and I couldn't be happier with my final purchase thanks to your debates, advice, and comments.

Thank you

I thought it was common knowledge to wait to do a calibration until the bulb has 150 hours or so. It achieves more stable characteristics after that. Do I have that wrong?
post #55 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Which pattern were you using to check this?

The pattern I am referring to can be found on the AVS HD 709 v1.3 PATCHED disc. In the Misc. Patterns menu, Section I "deinterlacing pattern (1080i)". It cannot be missed with this pattern. Please give it a try. I would be really surprised if it looks nice and clean on your RS20. Instead I anticipate you will see the moving boxes turn pink as the slide, particularly when moving right to left.

Please give it a try when you have a chance and drop a line back with what you saw. Thanks.

Okay. I just spent 5 minutes watching this pattern. I don't see anything out of the ordinary from my seating. No color shifting. Nothing. If I plant my face in the pixels, I can see something in the first and last rows of pixels. Not a red color shift but maybe a little discoloration. Maybe it is a bit of misconvergence. That is looking really hard for something to see.

Maybe I just have a good unit.
post #56 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle76092 View Post

Mine will be here shortly following Jason's expert calibration.

I'll add to this that so far I have calibrated a number of these. They are all testing very similar to the review piece...really small dE errors in both grayscale and colors. I don't know exactly what they changed, but I have never seen a model track this well. Kudos to JVC.
post #57 of 1011
This projector is sweet! Hope to be part of this thread.
post #58 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I don't remember reading this in Jason's review ...?

I don't mention a lot of things in my review.
post #59 of 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Hi Mark - if you are curious try the pattern I describe here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17313487

Hi Ric, I'll give it a try when I have some spare time (probably this weekend). I don't have the latest patched version of the disk and will have to burn it. Thanks for the tip.
post #60 of 1011
Its cruel. Love is blind. I love my .... Its big, fuzzy, warm and luvs me. You moron. See how it handles this test pattern. You are in luv with a beast. I hope the new model is a lovable puppy. Yea but it slobbers and if you give it water and don`t walk it, it will piss on your carpet. The beast just opens the door and lets herself into the bathroom. Just got indoor plumbing. I`ve got a good one and I didn`t need no professional calibration from Jason.
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