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Awkward subwoofer install...need help! - Page 2

post #31 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM3Rod View Post

Why don't you try setting it at 180 and see how it sounds and then at 0 and see how it sounds. Also adjust the crossover and see how it sounds.

Good luck with it.

I believe that was already suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightc
Hello everyone. I am connecting my subwoofer to my home theater and wanted to ask which phase I should set it on? I have the 0 and 180 options.

Quote:


No scenario neccessary. Place the phase switch at 0 and see how you like the sound. Then change to 180 and see how that sounds. Put switch on whichever setting sounds best to YOU. I have always followed my ears and have never been disappointed or let down with the results.

With that being said, I have my sub phase set to 0 and am completely happy.
post #32 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

And by as much as you seem to be resisting, I am getting the feeling you really don't want to do this right and are yanking everyones chain.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I take this remark as being smartelic towards the situation, and is not appreciated. In regards to yanking everyones chain, I'm glad to read every post that is made in response to my question and appreciate the effort.

It's not simply yank up the carpet and throw a wire there. Along that doorway is a lenolium entry way that is curved with the swing of the door. The carpet meets that then is secured down with a strip of some sort. I can't simply pull carpet away from the wall and run a wire under it due to that. Due to the configuration of this room, the right way may simply be to eliminate the sub completely if it will be useless in the other room, not doing a partial remodel of my room.

As for what you suggested in an earlier post, I will simply test the setup on different phases to see if there is a noticeable difference and then fine tuning it with the frequency adjustments.
post #33 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightc View Post

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I take this remark as being smartelic towards the situation, and is not appreciated. In regards to yanking everyones chain, I'm glad to read every post that is made in response to my question and appreciate the effort.

Don't get your panties in a bunch... He's trying to help you and offering some good advice. It's sometimes discouraging to offer advice only to have that advice be rejected for unknown reasons. Hence his perceived "attitude".

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightc View Post

It's not simply yank up the carpet and throw a wire there. Along that doorway is a lenolium entry way that is curved with the swing of the door. The carpet meets that then is secured down with a strip of some sort. I can't simply pull carpet away from the wall and run a wire under it due to that. Due to the configuration of this room, the right way may simply be to eliminate the sub completely if it will be useless in the other room, not doing a partial remodel of my room.

In the previous configuration of the room, you were able to accommodate the sub in the room. Therefore, it's hard to comprehend how you can not in the new configuration.

I previously stated that, if you can not find a spot for the sub *in* your room, and it was required to place it in the other room, then you were better off getting rid of it. I still believe that, but I am skeptical that you can't find a spot for it in your room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightc View Post

As for what you suggested in an earlier post, I will simply test the setup on different phases to see if there is a noticeable difference and then fine tuning it with the frequency adjustments.

Go ahead and do those "tests". However, I contend that, with the subs in another room, and the only interface between that room and the listening being a doorway, the phase response will be so far out that the tests will be irrelevant.

I'll reiterate.. Find a way to get the subwoofer into the listening room.

Craig
post #34 of 99
If you really want a subwoofer in that room, go wireless. Hsu makes one, the ULS15 and I am sure that there are other companies offering a wireless sub also.

Bill
post #35 of 99
+1000 bosko2 another option is hire a carpet guy on craigslist to run the cable for you. It would be a 50 dollar or less job and you would never know it's there. Take you time do a sub crawl at the 3 or 4 spots that the sub can fit in and have the wire fished under the carpet to that location. Truly all the advice you need is here just have to implement one. Also what sub do you have I mean we have alot of the bigger people on AVS talking about this I just hope we are not talking about a low end velodyne or a Polk sub here.
post #36 of 99
Maybe this "strange" idea is also possible:

Drill a hole of the size of the woofer in the wall, mount the woofer to the wall, mount the woofer case on the other side (where the sub is now), run Audessey........
post #37 of 99
Quote:


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I take this remark as being smartelic towards the situation, and is not appreciated.

No, you are not wrong. Glad to see that something I wrote was interpreted as it was intended.

Quote:


It's not simply yank up the carpet and throw a wire there.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I take this remark as being smart-alic towards my suggestion of FISHING the cable under the carpet complete with step by step instructions on EXACTLY how to accomplish this. NEVER was it stated nor suggested that you at any time, "yank up the carpet and throw a wire there". Please take the time to actually read the suggestion(s) made to you.

craig john is 100% correct here. If you cannot locate the sub in the same room, it is pointless to even have it. But I will be nice and give you further advice based on the advice given by others besides me:

Go wireless. Find a wireless transmission system to use. Look to spend substantially more than the $30 solution that has been suggested already.

Look into if an INFINATE BAFFLE solution and decide if that is an option for your situation. This is a last resort as it will cost more than fishing the carpet and based by your response(s) you don't want to do anything that may require you to actually put some type of effort into remedying your situation.
post #38 of 99
Thread Starter 
A true thank you to all who have posted relevant and legit answers to this question, however it is pointless to go on. I will not continue to post here if I am being called what I am not and talked to in a immature way. I was referred to this website for the great wealth of knowledge here, but after posting one topic and I have already been trolled numerous times, I will be moving on to other informative websites.

Quotes like

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Don't get your panties in a bunch

and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I am getting the feeling you really don't want to do this right and are yanking everyones chain

are completely unprofessional and disrespectful. With every post I made I came across with an adept and polite demeanor. At no point did I mislead anyone or do anything that warrants that kind of immature remark.

Now for a more personal note. Craig john, I agree with you on that discouraging about advice rejection statement, however your wrong. Please don't be ignorant and think that I was rejecting anyone's advice. Splicer, due to your confirmation of my analysis of your posting demeanor, I must say please think twice before posting in the future so other people don't perceive you the wrong way.

Once again, thank you to all of you who have posted unassuming, polite legitimate answers to my question. So long...
post #39 of 99
Bye! I don't think that you wanted a solution to your problem, just wanted someone to tell you that it was ok to do what you wanted to do.

Bill
post #40 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Maybe this "strange" idea is also possible:

Drill a hole of the size of the woofer in the wall, mount the woofer to the wall, mount the woofer case on the other side (where the sub is now), run Audessey........

Why do all that? Just go IB.
post #41 of 99
Hate to jump into this, but apparently I'm feeling feisty today and posting in a forum where I usually just lurk...

AVS is known for good advice mixed with a lot of sarcasm and other forms of caustic humor. You got a good dose of both. Unfortunately, your apparent lack of flexibility in considering how to keep the sub in the same room has triggered a typical response, and you response to that response has provided a feedback loop.

The metal strip between your linoleum and carpet is fairly cheap to lift and put back (or replace with new), if you know what you are doing. As suggested, a carpet installation dude could probably do it for you in 5 min for less than $50. There are methods for fishing wire under the carpet that don't require lifting it, also suggested. You could also run a wire along the baseboard to the doorway, up and over the door along the jamb, and then along the baseboard to the desired location.

If your response to lifting the carpet or fishing under it had been: "Assume I can't lift the carpet or do anything that would involve fishing wire under it. How else can I run wire to the far corner?" then the conversation would have stayed a bit friendlier.

Sorry you had a bad experience, but since what you were asking about goes against the grain of everyone's "audiophile" expertise, I'm not surprised you were advised strongly to try something different. And by rejecting that advice and insisting on your original course of action, results were predictable...

IMHO,

shinksma
post #42 of 99
If it was me, I would consider cutting a hole in the wall behind the couch.
post #43 of 99
Wow just wow, don't want to offend any LEO's in here but sir you reek like a cop. 10 posts and you seem to expect respect from people that have posted here for YEARS (typical law enforcement) yet you show NONE in return. I have not heard one positive thing come from you. Not one wow didn't think about that hell not even ONE thank you just a negative vibe from the jump. There have been 3 GREAT options given here for you:IB, fishing under carpet, wireless sub. You my friend look a gift horse in the mouth.


Want to say I don't hate all cops my cousin is one in northern MN and she is a killer, down to earth chick. Just alot of cops have the I'm better than you attitude.
post #44 of 99
Wow! Just wow!
You could have made your point without derogatory references to police officers.
post #45 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noubourne View Post

Actual testing is the only way to determine this.


Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noubourne View Post

The DVD and an SPL meter will be able to help you. More sophisticated tools could do a better job, but for a limited set of listening positions, you'll get by just fine with the DVD and an SPL meter.


You don't need a SPL meter to find the best phase setting for your subs, a decent test disk driving all speakers and subs is what you want.

I play a track with sound at 40 or 50 Hz and put my fingers on the sub's woofer cone (with only the 1 sub connected) to feel how much it is moving. I then change it's phase and repeat. If the cone moves more with the second setting, then that rules out the 1st choice. My subs have 0/90/180 setting, and I go with whatever setting gives the most cone movement.

I then have both subs connected and repeat the process with the 2nd sub.

With my current 2 sub setup, my rear sub is at 0 phase (easy to get to and see what it's set to), whereas my front sub (under a table and hard to check) is I think set to 90.

Cheers
post #46 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

You don't need a SPL meter to find the best phase setting for your subs, a decent test disk driving all speakers and subs is what you want.

I play a track with sound at 40 or 50 Hz and put my fingers on the sub's woofer cone (with only the 1 sub connected) to feel how much it is moving. I then change it's phase and repeat. If the cone moves more with the second setting, then that rules out the 1st choice. My subs have 0/90/180 setting, and I go with whatever setting gives the most cone movement.

The phase control does *nothing* to change the amount of cone movement. It changes the *time* that the cone moves, not how far.

And your fingers are a lousy tool for checking phase. An SPL meter and a test tone at the speaker/subwoofer crossover point works much better.



Craig
post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I play a track with sound at 40 or 50 Hz and put my fingers on the sub's woofer cone (with only the 1 sub connected) to feel how much it is moving. I then change it's phase and repeat. If the cone moves more with the second setting, then that rules out the 1st choice. My subs have 0/90/180 setting, and I go with whatever setting gives the most cone movement.

This makes absolutely zero sense to me. The phase control should not affect the amount of cone movement at all. As I understand it there are two ways the "phase" setting works.

1) It is a switch with two settings: 0 or 180. This switch serves to reverse the polarity of the subwoofer (like physically switching the + and - wires on the driver).

2) It is a continuous knob from 0 to 180. This knob simply acts as an adjustable delay that you use to phase align the sub to the mains. (I'm not sure what 0 and 180 represent in this case. A certain frequency? Arbitrary numbers? Just because?)

As I understand: in case #1 the phase setting should be set so that the sub is firing "out" when the mains are firing "out". Insuring that the polarities of all speakers are the same.

As I understand: in case #2 you should never need to touch this knob if your receiver has a speaker distance setting (delay) because the point of the distance setting is to phase-align all the speakers (including subwoofer).

Is there any sort of technical description of the different phase settings on subwoofers? It seems to me that there are different functions that all get labeled "phase adjustment" even though they serve completely different purposes. Can anyone explain exactly what a 0/90/180 phase switch would be doing? I really don't have an explanation for that one unless it is some sort of fixed-delay setting... which doesn't seem very useful.

I do have to say that I feel almost 100% certain that the phase setting won't affect the amount of cone movement.

Edit: looks like Craig addressed at least one of my concerns
post #48 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The phase control does *nothing* to change the amount of cone movement.


It in fact actually does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

It changes the *time* that the cone moves, not how far.

And your fingers are a lousy tool for checking phase. An SPL meter and a test tone at the speaker/subwoofer crossover point works much better.



Craig


I can tell that you've never tried this.

Finger touching sub woofer cone movement
works best, in my honest opinion.

Oh well, maybe the OP (flightc) will continue to read
here for a while, even though he's not too happy with
the many dumb answers and nonsense posting in this thread.

Cheers
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

It in fact actually does.


Can you please inform us why the phase setting would affect the amount of cone movement? Have you been able to verify this with a SPL meter?
post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkfat View Post

Can you please inform us why the phase setting would affect the amount of cone movement? Have you been able to verify this with a SPL meter?


My fingers verify it.

Why do you keep on with the "SPL meter" nonsense?

Cheers
post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkfat View Post

Can you please inform us why the phase setting would affect the amount of cone movement? Have you been able to verify this with a SPL meter?

Quote:


My fingers verify it.

Why do you keep on with the "SPL meter" nonsense?

I'd say, thats a deffinitive and resounding, NO.
post #52 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I'd say, thats a deffinitive and resounding, NO.

I can't tell if he's serious or not.
post #53 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkfat View Post

I can't tell if he's serious or not.


I do NOT do nonsense posting.

Cheers
post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkfat View Post

Can you please inform us why the phase setting would affect the amount of cone movement? Have you been able to verify this with a SPL meter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

My fingers verify it.

Why do you keep on with the "SPL meter" nonsense?

Cheers

It is pure physics that says switching the phase from 0 to 180 should not affect how much the cones moves, only whether it moves "forward" then "backwards" or vice versa when subjected to the audio signal. Specifically: a sine wave is (by definition) perfectly symmetrical about the "zero" value. Flipping the signal (swapping the phase) doesn't alter the symmetry or cause the signal to change in value, it just appears delayed by 1/2 a cycle.

If your SW is truly changing how much speaker excursion happens based on phase settings, then your SW is messing with the signal.

Otherwise I would suggest you are a victim of the placebo effect - you want to sense the difference, so you do.

And that "SPL meter nonsense" is the experimental physics that backs the theory.

shinksma
post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

It is pure physics that says switching the phase from 0 to 180 should not affect how much the cones moves...


Get real and do us all a favor and actually try it.

Meaning that in my experience, switching my sub phase makes a noticeable difference in the cone movement.

You do however need a decent test disc; see my post #3 in this thread.

Try it before you put your foot any further into your mouth.

Cheers
post #56 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

My fingers verify it.

Let me rephrase: Can you please inform us why the phase setting is affecting the amount of cone movement?

Also: How did you come to the conclusion that that having a greater amount of cone movement is the "best" setting?
post #57 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Get real and do us all a favor and actually try it.

Meaning that in my experience, switching my sub phase makes a noticeable difference in the cone movement.

You do however need a decent test disc; see my post #3 in this thread.

Try it before you put your foot any further into your mouth.

Cheers

I've just tested my Conquest by switching the phase and there is no diff with the spl meter between the phase.

Bill
post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I've just tested my Conquest by switching the phase and there is no diff with the spl meter between the phase.

Bill

I am not supporting OS at all, but what you just stated indicates a problem. There should be a difference with a SPL meter as 180 will produce less intense bass. 0 will be a stronger bass. It works that way on my Infinity Servo Sub, It works that way with my Dayton sub and is that way with my DIY sub using a TAD plate amp.

The only reason(s) for the phase switch is for placement purposes as well as when using 2 subs. However the latter should have both set at 0.
post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I am not supporting OS at all, but what you just stated indicates a problem. There should be a difference with a SPL meter.................

I think he is measuring the sub ALONE. In which case the SPL will be the same no matter what the phase is set to. It is when you operate the sub in conjunction with the speakers that the SPL varies with phase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

..............as 180 will produce less intense bass. 0 will be a stronger bass. It works that way on my Infinity Servo Sub, It works that way with my Dayton sub and is that way with my DIY sub using a TAD plate amp. The only reason(s) for the phase switch is for placement purposes as well as when using 2 subs. However the latter should have both set at 0.

There is no 'correct' setting. 0° maybe the best setting. 180° may be the best setting. You have to determine that empirically. It is going to vary form siotuation to situation. As far as 2 subs are concerned, it may well be that with 2 subs the best phase settings are not the same, but opposite. Again, you must determine this empirically. It is going to completely vary from situation to situation.
post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I am not supporting OS at all, but what you just stated indicates a problem. There should be a difference with a SPL meter as 180 will produce less intense bass. 0 will be a stronger bass. It works that way on my Infinity Servo Sub, It works that way with my Dayton sub and is that way with my DIY sub using a TAD plate amp.

The only reason(s) for the phase switch is for placement purposes as well as when using 2 subs. However the latter should have both set at 0.

So you're saying with just the subwoofer playing that there should be more intense bass when set to 0 and less intense bass at 180? Why is this?

The last two sentences of your post baffle me.
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