Evolution of Plasma PQ

Can't speak about Pioneer as they have always been on my wish list but Santa (or my other obligations) was just not generous enough for my to be able to afford.

I have both a 2006 Panasonic 42" 720p plasma and a new 50" V10. There have definitely been increases in picture quality over the last three years. Nothing earth shattering and I look for nothing earth shattering in the immediate future. 3D seems to be the big thing coming for 2010 and I could care less for this. Especially as every one of the 3D technologies still require you to put on some type of glasses. 50" is the largest size that will fit in my home theater cabinet (wife wants everything behind closed doors when not in use). I got the new set so I could have the largest picture that would work. Went with the V10 over the less expensive Panasonics due to the 96hz/24p playback with Blu-Ray and some extra user adjustments. This was the correct decision for me as I already am making great use of both features.

I purchased the V10 based on reviews and what I read on the various forums at AVS sight unseen. My local BB had never had one in stock long enough to mount at that time.

Returned there recently to pick up a movie and they finally had one in stock. The V10 was on a shelf (lower) with one of their few remaining Pioneer's on the wall above and to the right of it. Both were 50" models. I would never use a comparison like this in a store to make a purchasing decision as there are way too many variables there, but both units looked remarkably similar. I still would give the edge to the Pioneer, but only slightly. If this were a double blink comparison and I didn't know which was which and if they were side by side, my preference could have easily gone the other way.

Bottom line, if you get a 65" Panasonic, especially the V10, and place it in your living room, theater room, or wherever, I believe you should be satisfied if not thrilled. If I could have a wall to mount a 65" (wife acceptance factor), I would be ecstatic.

Upgrading to a 60" Pioneer like the KRP-600M would be a MAJOR upgrade in PQ and size compared to what you have now. Comparing pre-kuro Pioneers to kuro Pioneers is like comparing day and night.

Upgrading to a 65" Panasonic like the P65V10 would also be an upgrade in PQ and even bigger upgrade in size. It definitely would not be a step backward.

Both TVs will have significantly better black levels and contrast compared to your current TV.

It will be a very significant improvement. Those old Pioneers did not have good black levels, so that alone will be a huge difference.

There's more than one 65" Panny. Got their TH-65VX100H, which I mini-reviewed here, this spring when my year-2000 64" 1080i CRT RPTV failed. Its PQ impressed pro reviewers when it appeared late last year. It's a high-end set, like the RPTV it replaced, and its non-standard DCI color noted in most reviews, which may also appear in other new Panny models, looks fine here. -- John

I have a ~4 year old Panasonic plasma. Compared to the new panels (Kuro, this year and last year's Panasonics, Samsung, even last year's Hitachi) it is a night and day difference, yes. That Pioneer you have has a worse contrast ratio than my Panasonic. The pre-Kuro Pioneers had black levels which were pretty awful bad, ironically they had many fans here on AVS, but that's another topic

The best my Panasonic can do without crushing blacks is a gray. The 09 Panasonics can come pretty close to bezel black. And the Kuro is even closer still. They are right there with the best CRTs from back in the day.

My 3-month old Pioneer KRP-600M just answered all my similar questions about today's picture quality improvements in the affirmative. I researched the terrific new Panasonic V and X models just coming out as well as the new stunning LED LCD models.

I suspect I would be happy with any of today's new top of the line models; however, picture quality and consistently super low black levels outweighed that extra 5 inches for me.

I loved the picture quality of my finely tweaked 2003 Panasonic 42 inch 480p model so much more than any 720p or 1080p models that I saw in stores, I finally let the comments of the many AVSforum posters I have respected sway my final decision.

I am really happy that they did. Using DVE-HD Basics, I see that the grayscale, shadow detail and accurate color space is significantly improved over my old, but still gorgeous Panasonic. Being really anal, I did find a few areas that have been compromised for cost and efficiency. I recently posted my thoughts about the louder buzzing from the panel when I am very close to it. With the exception of a few moments on Bloomberg.com, I have never noticed it in normal usage.

Likewise, I almost hesitate to mention something I noticed relative to my old Panasonic glass front. The Panasonic glass does pick up reflections like a glass window, but it also has the same crystal clarity of a glass window. By contrast the new Pioneer 600M has an excellent anti-reflection coating which eliminates all reflections unless you are looking at it almost from the side angles. That or I suspect the plastic film filter on the back of the glass causes a very slight hazy glow around high contrast transistions such as the edge of bright white titles on a black background.

Most people would not notice this and I have finally resolved that it is an acceptable trade-off for what I perceive as much better contrast overall. I found a way to duplicate this affect on both my niw Pioneer and my old Panasonic. By shining a six-inch lon Mag-Lite flashlight into the the powered-off screen, I can see a diffusion of light about six inches in diameter on the Pioneer and two inches on the Panasonic.

The Pioneer wins on that point because the screen can still be black enough to still see that haze when it is on and has a video black signal applied. My old Panasonic which was once the ultimate in dark gray black levels is simply not black enough when on, to notice the two-inch haze. I never noticed it, in six years.

I really hoped this might be my year to go with the LED LCD but looking at them in showrooms convinced me that I personally prefer what to me are the sweeter, more effortlessly-natural looking picture of the Pioneer and nearly identical looking in the showrooms, Panasonics of 3 months ago when I made my decision.

I probably would have waited another year, but posts by people such as Tom Huffman, Turbe, D-Nice and other calibrators assured me the 500M was #1 in picture quality and almost visualy identical #2 was the 600M.

I crossed my fingers and bought the 600M. After three months, I am one happy camper even without the isf calibration which I will do in the not too distant future. Meanwhile I revel every day in the huge (IMHO) improvements in blacks, near-black shadow detail, colors and grayscale accuracy that were not possible to display on the old plasma set.

Last night, I watched the end of Ken Burns' "National Parks" documentary. In the final minutes there is a very black night scene looking down on Yosemite valley with a city-at-night-like display of firery bright lights from cars and campers. As I sat mesmerized by the still frame, analyzing the spectacularly contrasty scene without a hint of the haze I occasionally see on title scrolls, I suddenly noticed an ever so slight pattern of black-on-black ovals in the blackest unilluminated corner of a hill. I used the remote to crank up the black level to see if what I thought I was seeing was an anomaly or part of more black detail being crushed. It was neither. It was a slightly different level of black where no trees were growing amidst the nearly impossible to see black on black outlines of tall trees. I returned the black setting to my calibrated normal (-1). It was much better than any black-on-black detail I have ever seen anywhere.

This is a great time to upgrade.

Yes, except it's DCI=Digital Cinema Initiative color. Started a separate thread relating to this, sublinked in my TH-65VX100U mini-review here. As someone noted in that plasma-color thread, there are other forms of 'extended' color in use, too. -- John

Sorry, that's a typo. Model number should be TH-65VX100U. -- John

Im in same boat as you but I had a 433cmx and yes the black levels are wanting.Getting ready to upgrade and my choices are either a Panny 54v10 or the new samsung 55 8500 Led.Anyone thing its possible for a plasma owner to be satisfied with a very expensive LED or should I stay with plasma v10? Will only be using it for movies and primarily sd dvds at this time.

i just upgraded from a pio 4270 to the 141fd.

now i loved my 4270 and it is still as great as ever in the bedroom, but the 141 is unbelievable in every way.

the 65" sets don't come close imho.

grab a pioneer while you still can - who knows? they may not be beaten in pq for years to come.

Wish D Nice would report on the 8500.Help to see what a pro with a lean towards plasma has to say about this new LED

For the price of an 8500 you could get a bigger 60 inch Kuro, though. It'd have to be a hell of an upgrade in picture quality, and I just don't see how that's possible.

Pricing in LCDs is still really bad