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Panasonic PT-AE4000 MSRP $1999 - Page 264

post #7891 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxNW View Post

at what point does the image on the screen suddenly flip its orientation?

Answer: When you aim the projector up to a ceiling mounted mirror above the the screen surface and then reflect the image back downward to the screen (or floor).


[image source, not that it matters]

Here's an easy test. Go grab a hand mirror and hold it at 45 degrees, right in front of your projector just a few inches from its lens, reflecting the image down to the floor [or if your pj is table mounted instead of ceiling, aim it towards the ceiling instead, it doesn't matter]. Notice the reflected image on the floor [ceiling] is upside down? You need to fix that in the menu setup.
post #7892 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Here's an easy test. Go grab a hand mirror and hold it at 45 degrees, right in front of your projector just a few inches from its lens, reflecting the image down to the floor [or if your pj is table mounted instead of ceiling, aim it towards the ceiling instead, it doesn't matter]. Notice the reflected image on the floor [ceiling] is upside down? You need to fix that in the menu setup.

Doesn't that setup cause keystone issues though? The screen is not perpendicular to the light path. If so, I don't see that as a valid scenario. There are others.
post #7893 of 8492
A fixed projection, without the benefits of any "manual H/V shift control knobs", must be projected (if using reflection) at exactly 45 degrees reflected angles, in order to have no keystoning at all. An example of this would be to mount the projector flat against the back wall, down low at the floor, shooting straight up toward the ceiling at a 45 degree mirror which then reflects the image, in top to bottom inverted form, forward to the front of the room where one has a screen.

The Panasonic 4000 however is not fixed so you are not limited to the 45 degree angle constraint. Thanks to manual projected angle "vertical shift" offset control [I'm guessing at that term, but what I mean is the fact that the Panny engineers have built in a control which allows one to project (conventionally) from not just the edge of the screen, instead of dead center, but even beyond the edge of the screen (providing one isn't using the "auto zoom/CIH thingy", those people must stay within the confines of the screen height and width for it to work right)] yet not get any keystoning at all.

Note: the manual advises not to physically tilt the projector more than 30 degrees up or down from a level surface, I presume because the cooling mechanism may be put under too much strain, so 90 degree mounting as I described is not advised by Panny.
post #7894 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

A fixed projection, without the benefits of any "manual H/V shift control knobs", must be projected (if using reflection) at exactly 45 degrees reflected angles, in order to have no keystoning at all. An example of this would be to mount the projector flat against the back wall, down low at the floor, shooting straight up toward the ceiling at a 45 degree mirror which then reflects the image, in top to bottom inverted form, forward to the front of the room where one has a screen.

The Panasonic 4000 however is not fixed so you are not limited to the 45 degree angle constraint. Thanks to manual projected angle "vertical shift" offset control [I'm guessing at that term, but what I mean is the fact that the Panny engineers have built in a control which allows one to project (conventionally) from not just the edge of the screen, instead of dead center, but even beyond the edge of the screen (providing one isn't using the "auto zoom/CIH thingy", those people must stay within the confines of the screen height and width for it to work right)] yet not get any keystoning at all.

Note: the manual advises not to physically tilt the projector more than 30 degrees up or down from a level surface, I presume because the cooling mechanism may be put under too much strain, so 90 degree mounting as I described is not advised by Panny.

Yes vertically mounting the projector would result in a flip, but as you pointed out, that's not advisable. I don't think the lens shift would help you avoid needing 45 degree reflections, though. It shifts the image up, but keeps the light path level.
post #7895 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio2000 View Post

Guys, this is a serious price drop which will spark competitors in rethinking their pricing on some of the new models that came out.

Could we see prices dropping on other units by year end?

This will be very interesting to see what happens.

I dont own a PJ, but now I have these three on my list:

1) Sony VPL - HW 15
2) Mitsubishi HC3800
3) Panasonic AE4000

I hope to see all three of these in the future.

Dave

How much does it cost now. Thanks
post #7896 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Yes vertically mounting the projector would result in a flip, but as you pointed out, that's not advisable.

"Not advisable", so says the Panasonic manual, not me. They also say the issue is it "may" shorten its life. This generic disclaimer has been cut and paste from manual to manual for many years, despite several internal thermal sensors, constantly on the look out for trouble and which can regulate cooling fan speed, if need be. The manual also says one should dismount their projector and send it in to an authorized Panasonic service center for an internal cleaning, once every year, regardless of exhibiting any symptoms! I wonder how many people actually do that?

Quote:


I don't think the lens shift would help you avoid needing 45 degree reflections, though.

So you believe their "vertical lens shift" feature really works, i.e. it allows one to get a completely rectangular image, without any keystoning, even when projecting from a completely oblique angle, such as the top projector shown in the image below (borrowed from a review of a pj with a comparable vertical lens shift design, for illustration purposes, only):


however you believe this clever feature which allows one to project at such odd angles can't successfully be used simultaneously in conjunction with a mirror bounced projection, unless the mirror used is at exactly 45 degrees to the light path axis? O.K., whatever. I'm done trying to explain.
post #7897 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

"Not advisable", so says the Panasonic manual, not me. They also say the issue is it "may" shorten its life. This generic disclaimer has been cut and paste from manual to manual for many years, despite several internal thermal sensors, constantly on the look out for trouble and which can regulate cooling fan speed, if need be. The manual also says one should dismount their projector and send it in to an authorized Panasonic service center for an internal cleaning, once every year, regardless of exhibiting any symptoms! I wonder how many people actually do that?



So you believe their "vertical lens shift" feature really works, i.e. it allows one to get a completely rectangular image, without any keystoning, even when projecting from a completely oblique angle, such as the top projector shown in the image below (borrowed from a review of a pj with a comparable vertical lens shift design, for illustration purposes, only):


however you believe this clever feature which allows one to project at such odd angles can't successfully be used simultaneously in conjunction with a mirror bounced projection, unless the mirror used is at exactly 45 degrees to the light path axis? O.K., whatever. I'm done trying to explain.

No I wouldn't mount it vertically, and let's put it this way, I'll provide an image of a relatively perfect rectangle image projected using lens shift and no keystone adjustment, and you provide a relatively perfect rectangle image projected onto a screen in the middle of a wall from a projector using lens shift and a mirror at an angle way off of 45 degrees without using keystone adjustments. Deal?
post #7898 of 8492
What model of projector do you have?
post #7899 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

What model of projector do you have?

None. I can find or make a request for a perfect rectangular image from a lens shifted projected on just about any model that support that feature. Which would you like?

Which projector do you have? Does it have lense shift?
post #7900 of 8492
How do you get the memory load button on the remote to work? I have saved two lens memory positions on the projector, yet pressing the memory load button on the remote does nothing. What am I missing here?
post #7901 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnl View Post

"Memory Load" on the remote is for loading saved settings from the Picture Menu (color management, contrast, brightness, gamma, etc).

I see I found the answer on page 253. Anyone know of an easy way to get to the lens saved lens memory feature. (I.e. with a Harmony remote that can't do sequences (I.e. 900).
post #7902 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

None. I can find or make a request for a perfect rectangular image from a lens shifted projected on just about any model that support that feature.

Although I'll have to make some guesses as to the actual meaning of your (grammatically questionable) challenge, the pertinent thing is you don't own a projector with this lens shift feature and therefore don't have the ability to see, firsthand, how it allows one to project a perfectly rectangular image, without any need for keystone correction, even from an oblique angle, with or without a reflective bounce off a properly placed mirror in the light path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I don't think the lens shift would help you avoid needing 45 degree reflections, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I'll provide an image of a relatively perfect rectangle image projected using lens shift and no keystone adjustment, and you provide a relatively perfect rectangle image projected onto a screen in the middle of a wall from a projector using lens shift and a mirror at an angle way off of 45 degrees without using keystone adjustments. Deal?

[emphasis mine]

Deal.

...and I win :


Note, this happens to be a rear projection set up to a translucent screen, however it could be viewed from the mirror side by simply reversing the image, left to right, in the menu set up of the pj. One could also use a much smaller mirror by pushing it farther away from the screen, as long as all the angles and overall path lengths are preserved. The reflection of the "principal ray" (the center axis of the light path, as illustrated) is not at 45 degrees!

Also, you never stated that the pj must be kept relatively level to the horizon, however if you get to add that, after the fact, I get to introduce a secondary mirror:



Images source.
[Da-lite has been in business for over 100 years, i.e. they are experts in these matters.]

Quote:


Which projector do you have? Does it have lense shift?

I have the 4000; it has lens shift. I don't use a mirror currently.

edit to add: Some of the post(s) I have quoted seem to have been edited/deleted since I composed this response, however I stand behind everything I have posted as being accurate at the time I composed the post.
post #7903 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I see I found the answer on page 253. Anyone know of an easy way to get to the lens saved lens memory feature. (I.e. with a Harmony remote that can't do sequences (I.e. 900).

Unfortunately, a Harmony remote can not do it directly. However, direct loading of any of the lens memory locations can be done using the RS-232 control signals. You use a converter box which will take an IR signal from the Harmony remote and send the proper RS-232 signal to your AE-4000. See this thread for more information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=rs232

(You can also turn the AE-4000 off using an RS232 signal triggered by a single button push on your remote which saves jumping through hoops to do the same directly with the Harmony remote.)
post #7904 of 8492
I will eventually get a universal remote of some type but for the time being I'd like to be able to program the Panny on one of the AV1 or AV2 or TV settings on the DirecTV remote just to be able to turn the Panny on and off - I realize I probably won't get any of the other panasonic menu functions programmed with it. I have it successfully programmed for my A/V receiver to do volume now just need to be able to turn on/off projector to get down to 2 remotes from 4 - DirecTV and PS3. Would like to put up the Panny and Onkyo remotes for usual viewing.
I tried all the Panasonic codes in the DirecTV remote setup menu and none seemed to be able to turn on/off or have any effect on the Panny at all. When it prompted me for which input (AV1 AV2 or TV) I chose TV as I thought this would most closely represent the projector as far as IR commands go.
Has anyone done this? I have a RC64RBX I believe which is the RF remote that is backlit as well. I think it does IR commands as well.
Any help would be appreciated.
post #7905 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

Unfortunately, a Harmony remote can not do it directly. However, direct loading of any of the lens memory locations can be done using the RS-232 control signals. You use a converter box which will take an IR signal from the Harmony remote and send the proper RS-232 signal to your AE-4000. See this thread for more information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=rs232

(You can also turn the AE-4000 off using an RS232 signal triggered by a single button push on your remote which saves jumping through hoops to do the same directly with the Harmony remote.)

Thanks for the info. Not sure if I want to go that route, yet. The power issue is easy to work around. In essence, I tell the Harmony that my projector takes two commands to turn on and off (Power toggle twice). It works as expected when you power it off, and powering it on isn't an issue since the projector isn't ready to accept the 2nd power toggle right after being turned on.
post #7906 of 8492
Should anyone care, there are secret (Panasonic unpublished) "hex" codes for discrete on and off here.[not "toggle" commands] The "Off" code must be sent twice, with at least a small time delay of a fraction of a second between transmissions, however the single transmission of it will not accidentally turn the pj on (if it is currently off).
post #7907 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Although I'll have to make some guesses as to the actual meaning of your (grammatically questionable) challenge, the pertinent thing is you don't own a projector with this lens shift feature and therefore don't have the ability to see, firsthand, how it allows one to project a perfectly rectangular image, without any need for keystone correction, even from an oblique angle, with or without a reflective bounce off a properly placed mirror in the light path.



[emphasis mine]

Deal.

...and I win :


Note, this happens to be a rear projection set up to a translucent screen, however it could be viewed from the mirror side by simply reversing the image, left to right, in the menu set up of the pj. One could also use a much smaller mirror by pushing it farther away from the screen, as long as all the angles and overall path lengths are preserved. The reflection of the "principal ray" (the center axis of the light path, as illustrated) is not at 45 degrees!

Also, you never stated that the pj must be kept relatively level to the horizon, however if you get to add that, after the fact, I get to introduce a secondary mirror:



Images source.
[Da-lite has been in business for over 100 years, i.e. they are experts in these matters.]


I have the 4000; it has lens shift. I don't use a mirror currently.

edit to add: Some of the post(s) I have quoted seem to have been edited/deleted since I composed this response, however I stand behind everything I have posted as being accurate at the time I composed the post.

A: We were talking vertical lens shift. I thought you would have followed that thread despite my grammar. Note I said "and a mirror".

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

So you believe their "vertical lens shift" feature really works, i.e. it allows one to get a completely rectangular image, without any keystoning, even when projecting from a completely oblique angle, such as the top projector shown in the image below (borrowed from a review of a pj with a comparable vertical lens shift design, for illustration purposes, only):

B: I want a photo. Go get a mirror.

PS. I never edited a post to change meaning and never deleted anything (to clarify, I never deleted a post.)
post #7908 of 8492
Afternoon all, has anyone ever ordered a replacement lamp from http://www.amatteroffax.com? They have replacements for $102.02. A little hard to believe. Fast response would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!
post #7909 of 8492
^The manufacturer of that lamp is "Premier", not Panasonic.
The color temperature, brightness, longevity, and customer service backing it are probably all iffy, at best. Don't do it. Only buy genuine Panasonic if these things matter to you. They run $300 to $350 and the correct, real model number is ET-LAE4000 [although there's nothing stopping other copycats from using that designation, so beware] . It will come in a heavily padded box, clearly marked with the Panasonic trademark logo, and comes with a replacement air filter [the whole thing that slides out, not just another foam filter].

B&H Photo Video or any of the pj vendors listed across the top of this forum page will all be good sources.
post #7910 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^The manufacturer of that lamp is "Premier", not Panasonic.
The color temperature, brightness, longevity, and customer service backing it are probably all iffy, at best. Don't do it. Only buy genuine Panasonic if these things matter to you. They run $300 to $350 and the correct, real model number is ET-LAE4000 [although there's nothing stopping other copycats from using that designation, so beware] . It will come in a heavily padded box, clearly marked with the Panasonic trade mark logo, and comes with a replacement air filter [the whole thing that slides out, not just another foam filter].

B&H Photo Video or any of the pj vendors listed across the top of this forum page will all be good sources.

Thank you sir for the reply!!!!!
post #7911 of 8492
Quick question. Not near a manual and hope you guys can help...

I am trying to do CIH. Are there any limitations to how far down you can be from top of screen?

Thanks for your help,
Cory
post #7912 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by manthatsnice View Post

Quick question. Not near a manual and hope you guys can help...

I am trying to do CIH. Are there any limitations to how far down you can be from top of screen?

If you want to zoom between settings for 16:9 and 2.35:1 without manual adjustment then the lens can't be any lower than the bottom of the screen.
post #7913 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnl View Post

If you want to zoom between settings for 16:9 and 2.35:1 without manual adjustment then the lens can't be any lower than the bottom of the screen.

Thanks.
post #7914 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnl View Post

If you want to zoom between settings for 16:9 and 2.35:1 without manual adjustment then the lens can't be any lower than the bottom of the screen.

If you want to use the full masking system, then it needs to be close to the mid-point. Mine (ceiling mounted) is 4 inches below the top of the screen and I can't do a full bottom mask.
post #7915 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

If you want to use the full masking system, then it needs to be close to the mid-point. Mine (ceiling mounted) is 4 inches below the top of the screen and I can't do a full bottom mask.

Can you explain the difference/describe examples between using and not using "the full masking system?"

Thanks
post #7916 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Can you explain the difference/describe examples between using and not using "the full masking system?"

Thanks

I second that
post #7917 of 8492
A little confused as well but I assume he's talking about the difference between CIH and CIW.

Cory
post #7918 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

If you want to use the full masking system, then it needs to be close to the mid-point. Mine (ceiling mounted) is 4 inches below the top of the screen and I can't do a full bottom mask.

I'll take a guess here:

I think sivartk is talking about the use of electronic mastking to block out the black bars above or below the scope image.

When your projector lens is off the center, you need to use vertical shift to move up or down the image for it to fit on the scope screen. As a result you probably don't get to use the electronic masking to fully block the bar on one side without cropping the image, and on the other side, you run out of range to fully block the bar.
post #7919 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmbxkb View Post

I'll take a guess here:

I think sivartk is talking about the use of electronic mastking to block out the black bars above or below the scope image.

When your projector lens is off the center, you need to use vertical shift to move up or down the image for it to fit on the scope screen. As a result you probably don't get to use the electronic masking to fully block the bar on one side without cropping the image, and on the other side, you run out of range to fully block the bar.

Exactly, my masking on the bottom won't go up far enough to block the entire image (while zoomed viewing 2.35:1 material). In essence I need to raise the image digitally which can only be accomplished (to stay on the screen) by lowering the projector physically. Since this is only really noticeable with one movie (The Dark Knight) and my setup is working good, I'm not going to mess with it. The dark walls make is so you don't see the "black bars" on the bottom part that I can't mask.
post #7920 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post


Exactly, my masking on the bottom won't go up far enough to block the entire image (while zoomed viewing 2.35:1 material). In essence I need to raise the image digitally which can only be accomplished (to stay on the screen) by lowering the projector physically. Since this is only really noticeable with one movie (The Dark Knight) and my setup is working good, I'm not going to mess with it. The dark walls make is so you don't see the "black bars" on the bottom part that I can't mask.

CIH, my man. Need to go CIH...
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