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Panasonic PT-AE4000 MSRP $1999 - Page 280

post #8371 of 8492
FYI, created new thread about my used projector questions:


"First projector, frugal requirements"
post #8372 of 8492
2.40 screen but I switch between my memory ratios manually. I'd rather have black pillars for TV or 1.85 movies that tends to have less grandeur to them, than endure letterboxed for the epics movies! Actually, my next DIY screen may have provision for accomodating the Ben Hur ratio! eek.gif

Speaker placement issues are nicely resolved by doing it the right way : with an acoustically transparent screen! biggrin.gif
post #8373 of 8492
I manually zoom for my 2.35:1 screen via the menu function in the menus. (really not hard, once when the movie starts, once when it ends) The auto switches too much for me. I have found that 70% of comedies are 1.85:1 while about 70% of dramas/action are 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1). At least with releases in the last 10 years. So, mine gets a lot of zooming use. I only really watch sports on TV in that theater room. I have an old (7 years) 42" plasma in the living room for watching TV (I.e. making noise the background).
post #8374 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by deromax View Post


Speaker placement issues are nicely resolved by doing it the right way : with an acoustically transparent screen! biggrin.gif

Yup!

I sometimes forget that some screens are not AT....

Yes with screen and masking AT as it should be speaker placement really not affected.
post #8375 of 8492

The correct placement of the L and R speakers has to do with the sides of the viewing screen and its L to R width. If that's a variable distance, because your display screen varies in width based on content, then your speakers need to change their separation as well. [It has nothing to do with the screen being AT or not.]

 

If you place the speakers based on the smaller 1.78 width and then hit the expand button to manually  [or "auto zoom", for people who use that] stretch the left and right boundaries, yet leave the speakers in the same place, then the sound stage will be too narrow for the newly widened image.

post #8376 of 8492
^I disagree.

The placement of the L and R width is dictated by acoustic principles. LCR elevation is controlled by screen position however especially for the Center which is the whole argument for an acoustically transparent screen IMO. Having the screen AT actually takes it out of the equation with respect to L and R placement because now you can place them wherever they are required. Within reason, obviously you wouldn't fire a speaker into the speaker frame or something ridiculous like that.....

The sound stage is created by speaker placement with relation to the listener and not absolutely contingent on being contained within the projected image. A properly integrated front sound stage will sound the same whether the speakers are contained in the projected image or just outside the projected image.

I understand your logic, but its simply not an issue. My L and R are at the widest portion of my screen and fire through "black bars" on 1.85 material. My sound stage as it should be a front wall of sound seamlessly transitioning to the surrounds on pans regardless of projected image size. It doesn't matter where the speakers actually sit, what matters is how they image at the listener which is controlled by their relative geometry and speaker properties.

If you can localize your mains or contain the sound stage to the projected image, there are setup issues IMO.
post #8377 of 8492
I'll second NicksHitachi. On my 109 inches screen, the black pillars for 1.85 content are about 10 inches wide. I don't think that less than a foot distance will affect the speaker's sound much. My ear cannot detect such a small difference. On top of that, to my knowledge, no real cinema will displace speakers when the movies they shows are different aspect ratio. They merily move a blackout motorized curtain, if that.
post #8378 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post


Show of hands, how many people actually use a 2.35 screen with the auto zoom feature?

That was my intent. But where I ended up mounting the pj was too high for that to work. I resorted to using a Lumagen to scale the image down for movies that are taller than 2.35:1.

EDIT: didn't read carefully. AUTO zoom? No. I never intended to use auto zoom. I intended to use a zoom preset to go between 16:9 and 2.35:1. But the zoom was set by my automation system based on what it knew about the movie I was playing (the aspect ratio stored in the database). Now that same automation drives the Lumagen to set the scaling for one of four possible aspects.
post #8379 of 8492
Quote:
A properly integrated front sound stage will sound the same whether the speakers are contained in the projected image or just outside the projected image

 

You define that as "properly" integrated? Seems like the exact opposite to me. I take it you feel there is no reason for the width of the sonic soundstage  to directly correspond to, and track, the width of the visual presentation, according to you; they aren't interrelated. Having one being fixed and the other variable width, depending on content, is therefor of no concern, to you.

 

I disagree.
 

post #8380 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by deromax View Post
... My ear cannot detect such a small difference. On top of that, to my knowledge, no real cinema will displace speakers when the movies they shows are different aspect ratio. They merily move a blackout motorized curtain, if that.

 With most typical movie/TV content, perhaps not, mostly because your brain is overwhelmed by the visual content which overrules the sonic content, but I assure you, if you place a pair of front speakers  one foot or so more widely spaced than they had been, listening to stereo music [not dialog or some other center-centric content] you will most certainly hear a difference.

 

Quote:

...to my knowledge, no real cinema will displace speakers when the movies they shows are different aspect ratio

Good point. They should.

 

With the current trend in cinema, an arbitrary convention adopted by most in the 60/70's, to steer all front dialog and even most of the other front content (other than music and some occasional effects) to the hard center, this problem I am discussing will be difficult to notice for many.

 

I keep a clip from the original movie "The Fly", with Vincent Price, in my archives to remind me that this is not how it has to be. In many movies back then, when a character walked to stage left, you heard him coming from stage left! The sound tracked with the image. Nowadays, the same character's voice would be from the center speaker only, regardless of where they are on screen. This is a compromise deemed necessary for off-axis theater viewers, but it detracts from the realism for on axis viewers, which most of us in home theater use pretty much are.


Edited by m. zillch - 9/5/13 at 10:46am
post #8381 of 8492

Here's a rare example where the dialog is not steered to the hard center, even when the character speaking is from the side of the screen. Note when Dave speaks to HAL from his space pod on the right side of the screen [at 21 seconds and 50 sec.], you hear him from the right side of the screen, as well. The exact location will of course be dictated by the placement of the right speaker, so if the stereo pair is too widely or too narrowly spaced, it matters:

If the embedded YouTube video above has trouble, here it is:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE

 

or search YouTube for:

HAL9000: "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

 

[Yes, I realize there is no sound in outer space, but the movies tell us otherwise.]


Edited by m. zillch - 9/5/13 at 11:37am
post #8382 of 8492
^ I quit, I quit.... we disagree. biggrin.gif
post #8383 of 8492

Muhahahaha :D

post #8384 of 8492
I found I never change the aspect ratio, even though I really thought I would.
post #8385 of 8492
I use the 2.35:1 aspect ratio alot. I have the fixed screen 2.35:1-109"and a pull down 16x9- 80" i believe. I hardly use or watch movies in the 16x9 and when I do, the switching works great between the two aspect ratio. I noticed the hdmi 2.0 has been released so I will wait few yrs to upgrade all my equipment to 4k and hoping by that time, as slow as it maybe, titles will be released in 4k. I'm not sure what the new ps4 hdmi specs are.
I have had this panny ae4000u for 3 yrs and just used 750 hrs of lamp life. I use it for just movies nothing else in basement.
post #8386 of 8492
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

-
Show of hands, how many people actually use a 2.35 screen with the auto zoom feature?

I do. (if 2.4 qualifies as 2.35 in this survey)
I'm no videophile (AE4000 is my first pj), so maybe I'm a sucker for gimmicks.
Auto-zoom wasn't a major factor into the decision to buy this pj, but we really like it (anticipating the auto-zoom is part of our HT experience - kinda like the 21st century fox fanfare).
We never watch television signals in the theater and, iirc, have only experienced one instance where the screen format changed during the presentation.
But I do understand your points, Zilch - and I don't dispute your assumptions or recommendation.
See my 155" 2.4 Wilsonart DW screen build here (do you sense the pride? biggrin.gif): http://www.avsforum.com/t/708240/laminate-screen-material-and-testing/2760#post_21525033
Edited by mcfingrs - 9/6/13 at 1:38pm
post #8387 of 8492

Thanks everyone for your replies. I guess what I really meant was: How many people who use the 4000 as their main display to watch general television, use a 2.35 (or larger) screen? Auto vs manual zoom wasn't really my question, to tell you the truth.

 

[I'm not in a position where my television room and my movie theater room are separate rooms/displays, but I guess I was naïve to think  everyone was like me, I guess.:o]

post #8388 of 8492
I use my projector as my primary display. I have a plasma TV that I only use for exercise videos or when playing a Wii game that makes me stand in front of the projector. I have a 1.78 screen because it actually fit rather perfectly into the space I have available for it.

post #8389 of 8492

That looks like a nice setup. What are those long thin speakers?

post #8390 of 8492
Paradigm Millenium 200s. I use Paradigm for my front 3 and Axiom Audio M3s, M2s, and M0s (on wall versions) for my surrounds and front heights.
post #8391 of 8492

D'Appolito ish, nice.

post #8392 of 8492
Long time lurker, first time poster. (Or something.)

I bought a used AE4000 a few months ago and it's been treating me very well, it was a huge step up from my Optoma EP1690. I do have one minor problem though -- about 10 minutes after first turning it on for the day, the display will randomly corrupt and go black for about 1 second. The input menu flashes as if it's lost connection entirely, and then everything comes back fine. I'm using HDMI running full 1080p60 from my desktop computer with a Radeon HD 6950, passing through a Pioneer Elite SC-05 Receiver. The audio always remains stable when this happens. (EIther bitstreaming HD codecs or just 5.1 PCM output.) I'm using 25 ft HDMI cables which I thought might be the issue, but it happens very regularly and is typically fine after that.

Has anyone run into this before? It's been doing it since I got it, but since it only drops for a second it's just really been a minor annoyance.

Oh, also it appears a little dirty. I think this is fairly recent though. I only notice it with a black image. I took a long exposure pic:



The two brightest spots are just barely visible with a black image in normal conditions. What's the best way to clean it?
post #8393 of 8492

Those are "dust blobs", probably on the main LCD panels, or their polarizers, or the dichroic mirrors.[ I was just warning another new person that it is one of the major risks you take when buying a used pj. I wonder if he is still around to see this?]

 

There are posts in the similar model 2000 and 3000 threads about people who have bravely opened the unit to clean them out themselves. If you hold a can of compressed air the wrong way you can accidentally squirt liquid in and do much more harm than good, so be sure you know what you are doing and be sure your room air is as clean as possible during the procedure. DO NOT TURN THE UNIT ON WHILE IT IS OPEN OR THE COOLING FAN WILL SUCK IN UNFILTERED AIR AND SPREAD IT AROUND, possibly causing even worse issues. Good luck.

post #8394 of 8492
Mine does the "Drop" but only from my LG player and only with DVD's. (Not Blu-ray or HD DVD). Then again, my 7 year old HDMI receiver has developed a short in the HDMI output, so I think that is the problem. biggrin.gif
post #8395 of 8492
Hmm... yeah I thought about opening it to clean it, but it's not bad enough to warrant it yet. I might do more harm than good smile.gif
post #8396 of 8492

One thing you absolutely should do is clean the air filter, a fairly simple procedure, as per the instruction manual. It won't help with the dust blobs you have, but may prevent future ones and allows for proper cooling.

post #8397 of 8492
Is this projector still a good buy? Say in comparison to the Benq W7000 if both can be had for the same price?
post #8398 of 8492
Yes, definitely is.
post #8399 of 8492
Even in a living room arrangement?
post #8400 of 8492

Not sure what you mean. Typical living room brightness? I can't speak for the Benq [since I don't own it], but I can tell you that with this Panasonic (and  the three I owned before it] you have to have typical, commercial movie theater darkness in order to see the image with any degree of successful contrast, especially in larger screen sizes. Nobody in the room would have enough light to read, for example, and very heavy drapes which are completely light blocking are needed for daytime use, to block all sunlight.

 

There are a few tricks, like using a very small image or using a very reflective, high gain screen, which unfortunately will "hotspot" and not be good for any more than one viewer (only one person can be truly "on-axis" at a time with such screens), but for the most part these are just "tricks" which don't work well in real-world use, seeking the best "movie theater experience".

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