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Help a newb understand some basics.

post #1 of 21
10/8/09 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
I'm just finishing up the theater in my basement. I have projector down there for movies, and a full bar for libations. I like to get drunk and listen to loud music. I run a computer out to the stereo and use itunes for music. I'll be hooking the computer to the projector shortly as well so I can watch downloaded content on the big screen without burning a disc (or in my case using a USB flash drive capable DVD player).

I have two large speakers I like that I bought a long time ago. They are Optimus speakers with a 10 inch woofer, a five inch whatever you call it, and another whatever you call it in each speaker unit (I told you I was a newb). On the back they say 100 watts. I want to purchase speakers to round it out to a 7.1 system. My question is how do I match up new speakers to the existing ones? I gather buying speakers in the same series is the best, blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to do that. My newb-sense tells me to buy a 100 watt center channel (and sub)? What about the rear sets? 100 watts as well? Am I way off base?

As far as the receiver I have an Onkyo HT-R560. It says in the manual it's 75 Watts/Channel @ 8 ohms (FTC) and 100 Watts/Channel @ 6 ohms (IEC). I don't know why it says two wattages. It's all Greek to me.


Come to think of it I don't really want to understand anything I just want to build a better place to get drunk and listen to loud music that also works for watching MMA and movies.

Thanks,
Attikai
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post #2 of 21
10/8/09 at 5:20pm
Ok, sounds like you're looking for best bang for the buck upgrades. First off, ignore speaker wattage ratings they don't really mean much. Next step, you usually only really care about matching the front 3 speakers, front center and left. You don't have to worry about matching the surrounds as much. Since you have the optimus and seem happy with them, then you will not be able to get a center to match them. That's ok for now. First I would focus on adding a good subwoofer and 2 speaker to make add for surrounds. Decide on a budget on a subwoofer and surround speakers and post back. Also, what size is your room?
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post #3 of 21
10/9/09 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
I really appreciate your advice, jettore. Here's a sketch of the basement.



You read me right. More bang for the buck is exactly what I'm looking for. I put together the projector and screen for under $600. I'm hoping since I have an amp and the main speakers I can finish the rest of this for pretty cheap.

One question I have is this. If I spend $100 on a sub what price range would a set of surround speakers to go with it be? Another $100, or would I be spending more like $75, or $50? I guess I just don't understand how important the quality of surround speakers is to the system as a whole.
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post #4 of 21
10/9/09 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attikai View Post

I really appreciate your advice, jettore. Here's a sketch of the basement.



You read me right. More bang for the buck is exactly what I'm looking for. I put together the projector and screen for under $600. I'm hoping since I have an amp and the main speakers I can finish the rest of this for pretty cheap.

One question I have is this. If I spend $100 on a sub what price range would a set of surround speakers to go with it be? Another $100, or would I be spending more like $75, or $50? I guess I just don't understand how important the quality of surround speakers is to the system as a whole.

I understand that you are on a budget and everything but I do not suggest spending only 100 on a subwoofer. A subwoofer is much more important to decent sound than surrounds are. I would suggest spending at minimum 200-300 dollars on a sub.
As for the surrounds, you can get pretty good surrounds for a little as 100 dollars a pair or a little bit less. Just do not skimp on the subwoofer.
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post #5 of 21
10/9/09 at 2:34pm
Thread Starter 
I need to post some URLs and apparently I need to make another post before I'm allowed to do that. So here a superfluous post for you.
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post #6 of 21
10/9/09 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 
The problem I have with using price as a the factor in a making a decision about a subwoofer, and equating that with sound quality, is that for example this sub here, a Sony SA-W3000 can be bought here for only $250 because it's refurbished.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665094086

But then you dig a little deeper and the same $250 subwoofer can be bought here, brand new, for $140.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SA-W3000-...5122346&sr=1-2

So I can build a system and say I spent $350 on the sub, $250 for two sets of surrounds, and another $300 on a center channel. Besides going WAY over my budget I don't think those numbers tell anyone, anything, about the quality of the system. Am I wrong?
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post #7 of 21
10/9/09 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistline View Post

I understand that you are on a budget and everything but I do not suggest spending only 100 on a subwoofer. A subwoofer is much more important to decent sound than surrounds are. I would suggest spending at minimum 200-300 dollars on a sub.
As for the surrounds, you can get pretty good surrounds for a little as 100 dollars a pair or a little bit less. Just do not skimp on the subwoofer.

+1....unless you buy used, $100 might be too low for a subwoofer. If you can go up to around $200, there are a couple of good options in eBay depending on your listening preference. For music, Energy ESW-V8 for $225 minus cashback. For home theater, Premier Acoustic PA-120 $229 minus cashback.

If you want to stay around $100 for the subwoofer, check Parts Express. Here's one example: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-390. Rumor has it that the subwoofers in the Dayton Elite line are based on HSU subwoofers, which are well-recognized subwoofers.

Don't worry about the quality of the surrounds. They are the least critical piece in this setup.
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post #8 of 21
10/9/09 at 2:58pm
I'd suggest picking up a pair of decent used speakers for surrounds and skip the center channel. I'm running a 4.0 system in my living room and it sounds great in the sweet spot. If you're on either end of the couch, you don't get the vocals locked into the screen like a center channel delivers, but just put the wife and kids in the crappy seats. Save up some scratch for a sub later. You've got a lot of cubic feet to fill with sound and a too-small sub may be worse than none.
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post #9 of 21
10/9/09 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attikai View Post

The problem I have with using price as a the factor in a making a decision about a subwoofer, and equating that with sound quality, is that for example this sub here, a Sony SA-W3000 can be bought here for only $250 because it's refurbished.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665094086

But then you dig a little deeper and the same $250 subwoofer can be bought here, brand new, for $140.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SA-W3000-...5122346&sr=1-2

So I can build a system and say I spent $350 on the sub, $250 for two sets of surrounds, and another $300 on a center channel. Besides going WAY over my budget I don't think those numbers tell anyone, anything, about the quality of the system. Am I wrong?

You are right you really can't go just off of price but at the same time on average you get what you pay for. They are just saying if your budget is 600 you should put a considerable portion of that to the sub which is by far the most important speaker you are pick up. It's good advice you are going to be happy you put the money into the sub when listening to music or movies.

If you go to the sub forum and read threads about 200-300 subs there will always be a couple of subs that stand out from the crowd as the best bang for the buck. They aren't just going to suggest based on price they will suggest on performance.
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post #10 of 21
10/9/09 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karn View Post

You are right you really can't go just off of price but at the same time on average you get what you pay for. They are just saying if your budget is 600 you should put a considerable portion of that to the sub which is by far the most important speaker you are pick up. It's good advice you are going to be happy you put the money into the sub when listening to music or movies.

If you go to the sub forum and read threads about 200-300 subs there will always be a couple of subs that stand out from the crowd as the best bang for the buck. They aren't just going to suggest based on price they will suggest on performance.

Thanks Karn, my sentiments exactly. If you would like a few links in the 200-300 range here are a few winners that you will be very happy with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/H100-BIC-Acoustech-H-100-12-500-Watt-Subwoofer-New_W0QQitemZ310140425166QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoof ers?hash=item4835cf53ce
This is from an authorized dealer, and you can best offer it for 250. They will accept.

http://cgi.ebay.com/H-100-Premier-Acoustic-PA-120-Subwoofer-BLACK_W0QQitemZ370255532189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwo ofers?hash=item5634f3109d

http://cgi.ebay.com/VELODYNE-SC-10-SUBWOOFER-NEW-IN-BOX-10-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ250422366427QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDo main_0?hash=item3a4e5610db
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post #11 of 21
10/9/09 at 3:33pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone. I spoke with a friend who has an extra sub that he is willing to sell. I'm going to look into that. I'll probably come back here to ask you guys what you think (and perhaps made a thread on the sub forum) . I don't have the details yet about the sub. If it's a good quality speaker I'll probably be able to get a fantastic deal on it. That will free up money for everything else. I should know more this weekend.
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post #12 of 21
10/9/09 at 3:46pm
If you like to listen to music loud, consider trying to find two more of the speakers you have (should be cheap used) and run your receiver in 4 speaker stereo mode. Just a thought.
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post #13 of 21
10/10/09 at 10:28pm
A 34'x26' room is a HUGE room to fill with sound. If you are looking for good theatre sound and chest pounding thunderous bass.... $100 will not get you anything more than the cabinet for the kind of sub you are going to need. You're probably going to need to open up the wallet to the $400-$500 range at least to get good sound for a room that size.... even buying used. BTW, i'm not aware of ANY SONY subwoofer that is going to cut it. Sony should stick to Playstation and flat panels and thats about it IMO.
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post #14 of 21
10/10/09 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistline View Post

Thanks Karn, my sentiments exactly. If you would like a few links in the 200-300 range here are a few winners that you will be very happy with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/H100-BIC-Acoustech-H-100-12-500-Watt-Subwoofer-New_W0QQitemZ310140425166QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoof ers?hash=item4835cf53ce
This is from an authorized dealer, and you can best offer it for 250. They will accept.

http://cgi.ebay.com/H-100-Premier-Acoustic-PA-120-Subwoofer-BLACK_W0QQitemZ370255532189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwo ofers?hash=item5634f3109d

http://cgi.ebay.com/VELODYNE-SC-10-SUBWOOFER-NEW-IN-BOX-10-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ250422366427QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDo main_0?hash=item3a4e5610db

The first link...they accepted 169.00 for me...h-100
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post #15 of 21
10/11/09 at 8:30am
Thread Starter 
Well the good news is glued up my screen this weekend and it's great. The bad news my friend's subwoofer was crap.

"The first link...they accepted 169.00 for me...h-100 "

Well that's not a fortune. So that's a decent subwoofer?

I'm open to suggestions for a subwoofer that will cost less then $300 shipped. I'm tempted by the one mentioned above. However, reading about it makes it sound as though it's going to be on the small size for the size of the room.

Think my amp will have any troubles driving a bigger subwoofer? The 7.1 speakers that came with it are pretty wimpy. But I assumed the amp is more capable?
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post #16 of 21
10/11/09 at 12:07pm
I am impressed with what I get. I think at under 170, you WON'T find anything better. If you go up to the 500+ range, you'll get better, but I wasn't trying to spend that type of money.
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post #17 of 21
10/11/09 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attikai View Post

Think my amp will have any troubles driving a bigger subwoofer? The 7.1 speakers that came with it are pretty wimpy. But I assumed the amp is more capable?

Your amp doesn't drive the subwoofer, the sub has its own amp built in. Your Onkyo is only driving the 7 speakers (left, right, center, surrounds and backs).

For that money, the H-100 is hard to beat but you may need 2 to get real impact in a room of that size.
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post #18 of 21
10/11/09 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

For that money, the H-100 is hard to beat but you may need 2 to get real impact in a room of that size.

I've got a PA-120 (similar to the BIC) in a basement of similar size. It's enough for music, but for better movie watching experience, I agree - get 2 or get something bigger.
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post #19 of 21
12/18/09 at 2:55pm
Hello I just purchased the SAW3000 powered sub 185W, didn't receive it yet. I'm seeing Sony sites say that it's 6 ohms but support @ DELL.com where i got it from said it's 8 OHS. HMM? I also have a Sony receiver and it puts out @ 8 ohms. So will my 6 ohms powered subwoofer and my 8 ohms receiver play well 2gether, or do I use something else to make it compatible or does this just work. THanks 4 the help.
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post #20 of 21
12/18/09 at 2:58pm
A receiver does not see a speaker load from a powered sub. The impedance of the speaker in the sub only matters to the amp in the sub, and (hopefully) they were designed to work together.
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post #21 of 21
12/18/09 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

A receiver does not see a speaker load from a powered sub. The impedance of the speaker in the sub only matters to the amp in the sub, and (hopefully) they were designed to work together.

Thank U so Much 4 replying. Ok, so my AMp on/in the SUB in powering the woofer and need not to be an = impedance BC the SUB stands alone and only connection to the receiver is just the for a signal/sound. Correct?
Thanx 4 ur help.(O wise Special Member)
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