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JTR Captivator - Page 5

post #121 of 4334
12/14/09 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Wish it had XLR or Speakon connects.

Agreed.
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post #122 of 4334
12/14/09 at 12:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

RMK!

Your captivators also have rounded edges, pinktri's caps. are square.

I read and article a few months back regarding wood properties and its (wood) ability to properly reproduce sound.

I can't remember exactly what the recomendation was but BB and MDF where involved in the study.

One reflects sound and the other absorbs sound.

I wonder if that affects the sound in Jeff's designs, if any?

Obviously Jeff was using BB due to strength/durability for his Pro Audio gear. Not sure about the absorption/reflection properties of the materials but I am sure that this was considered as part of the design. There is quite a bit of sound dampening material in my Captivators.
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post #123 of 4334
12/14/09 at 12:31pm
What do these filters provide for your subs? Just not sure what their purpose is for.

Do all subs need filters?
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post #124 of 4334
12/14/09 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Thomas, is the E.D. box on top of your QSC providing a HP filter for your Cap?

Yes it does have a HP filter. I have the anitmode 8300 too but that went upstairs since the eD does the job well.
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post #125 of 4334
12/14/09 at 4:19pm
Ok let me take a stab at my own question..correct me if Iam wrong

Filters BLOCK frequencies. A hi-pass filter will block all frequencies BELOW where you set it. A low-pass filter will block all frequencies ABOVE where you set it.

So for the captivator..in order to keep it sounding its best...you would hi-pass it at 15hz and low-pass it at 80hz.
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post #126 of 4334
12/14/09 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Ok let me take a stab at my own question..correct me if Iam wrong

Filters BLOCK frequencies. A hi-pass filter will block all frequencies BELOW where you set it. A low-pass filter will block all frequencies ABOVE where you set it.

So for the captivator..in order to keep it sounding its best...you would hi-pass it at 15hz and low-pass it at 80hz.

Good Job!

I'm not sure but, I think you can adjust the high pass filter a little below the actual tuning point but, I'm not sure. I'm also learning.
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post #127 of 4334
12/14/09 at 4:54pm
Has anyone thought about a growler-captivator combo.

I have read good things about the mid bass slam of the growler, incorporate the low tunning of the captivator and you could have a dual sub killer LFE duo.

Would such a combo be an integration nightmare in a system. Is it even possible?
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post #128 of 4334
12/14/09 at 5:29pm
I have thought about that combo myself. I asked jeff about this and he gave me the "are you serious" look. lol....I think he gave me the look because the Cap is more than enough. I did have a chance to listen to 6 growlers and 1 triple 8 and all I can say is massive. The force was unreal. Jeff had me go outside of the warehouse so I could really hear just how loud and clean it sounds.
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post #129 of 4334
12/14/09 at 5:33pm
pinktri,

Have you measured the sound levels you are getting with just one captivator 80hz down to 15 hz.

How big is your room?
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post #130 of 4334
12/14/09 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Ok let me take a stab at my own question..correct me if Iam wrong

Filters BLOCK frequencies. A hi-pass filter will block all frequencies BELOW where you set it. A low-pass filter will block all frequencies ABOVE where you set it.

So for the captivator..in order to keep it sounding its best...you would hi-pass it at 15hz and low-pass it at 80hz.

Thats about the size of it. These crossover points are not "brick walls" so depending upon the slope of the filter you will get output slightly below and above the 15 and 80hz xovers.

In any case, an HP is a good idea with just about any subwoofer. The Low Pass is normally handled by the processor or AVR's bass management.
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post #131 of 4334
12/15/09 at 2:29am
RMK!,

Would you be so kind as to going into a little more detail regarding your comments about the Captivators limits. "Bottoming out or passive radiator limits" during heavy low freq. content.

Are movies like Transformers and World of the Worlds going to be a problem for this sub.
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post #132 of 4334
12/15/09 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

RMK!,

Would you be so kind as to going into a little more detail regarding your comments about the Captivators limits. "Bottoming out or passive radiator limits" during heavy low freq. content.

Are movies like Transformers and World of the Worlds going to be a problem for this sub.

I can touch on this since I've tried both movies. Simply put, no, these movies are no problem for this sub. I'm sure RMK doesn't push his subs as hard as I do since he has 2 to balance the load along with the other array of subs he has in his system.
When I first received the sub, Jeff and I found an issue (defect) with the PR surround, the surround was not stiff enough and would cause a buzzing flapping noise during heavy load. He had another PR for me to swap out with and it solved the issue. Mind you I push my sub with a QSC 1850hd amp bridged mono outputting 1800W. I have the gain set around 2 o'clock for normal tv viewing and 3 o'clock for movies and music. I have my sub gain is set to max (10) on my HK receiver so I'm pushing the sub pretty hard. I watch most movies between -17 to -10dbs and both movies sound fantastic. WoTW scene when the pod first emerges is really no big deal. TF2 towards the end when the plane drops the line of bombs sounds really tight, you can feel it in your chest. The entire final scene is pretty crazy. The Hulk scene with the sonic cannons push the sub pretty hard but no distortion or bottoming out. Also star trek's opening scene has massive ringing bass when the ship flies by but the sub handles this well. I stare at the PR during these scenes and the excursion is pretty intense. The only buzzing, flapping, or bottoming out noise comes from my walls.
BTW my room is 18'x22'x6.75', the floor is concrete with a drop ceiling above, no acoustical treatment yet. I did not measure levels, I do not have the equipment but Jeff did some measurements and testing. Maybe he can share his numbers.
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post #133 of 4334
12/15/09 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

I can touch on this since I've tried both movies. Simply put, no, these movies are no problem for this sub. I'm sure RMK doesn't push his subs as hard as I do since he has 2 to balance the load along with the other array of subs he has in his system.
When I first received the sub, Jeff and I found an issue (defect) with the PR surround, the surround was not stiff enough and would cause a buzzing flapping noise during heavy load. He had another PR for me to swap out with and it solved the issue. Mind you I push my sub with a QSC 1850hd amp bridged mono outputting 1800W. I have the gain set around 2 o'clock for normal tv viewing and 3 o'clock for movies and music. I have my sub gain is set to max (10) on my HK receiver so I'm pushing the sub pretty hard. I watch most movies between -17 to -10dbs and both movies sound fantastic. WoTW scene when the pod first emerges is really no big deal. TF2 towards the end when the plane drops the line of bombs sounds really tight, you can feel it in your chest. The entire final scene is pretty crazy. The Hulk scene with the sonic cannons push the sub pretty hard but no distortion or bottoming out. Also star trek's opening scene has massive ringing bass when the ship flies by but the sub handles this well. I stare at the PR during these scenes and the excursion is pretty intense. The only buzzing, flapping, or bottoming out noise comes from my walls.
BTW my room is 18'x22'x6.75', the floor is concrete with a drop ceiling above, no acoustical treatment yet. I did not measure levels, I do not have the equipment but Jeff did some measurements and testing. Maybe he can share his numbers.

Awesome, thanks for the description. I'll have to schedule a listening sometime after the holidays.
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post #134 of 4334
12/15/09 at 6:41am
Thanks for the review pinktri

Thats with just one captivator, I would think two would make everything sound even more effortless and dynamic. Are you thinking about adding another to the mix?

1800 watts is alot, is that what Jeff recommends
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post #135 of 4334
12/15/09 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

RMK!,

Would you be so kind as to going into a little more detail regarding your comments about the Captivators limits. "Bottoming out or passive radiator limits" during heavy low freq. content.

Are movies like Transformers and World of the Worlds going to be a problem for this sub.

Long story but since you asked, the problem was more of an Audyssey EQ problem than a specific problem witthe Captivators. When I first setup the Caps they and the Danley's were both run off of the Velo SMS-1 with a 15Hz HP (24db slope). When I purchased my new Integra SSP with dual discreet Sub Outs and to take advantage of Audyssey's distance level calibration, I decided to run the Danley's off of the SMS-1 and the Caps direct from the Integra (so no HP filter).

Like Pinktri, I have had no problems during normal (and for me that is 120db peaks) when the system is properly calibrated and EQed. During my initial Audyssey calibration with the new Integra, the lowest frequencies (<20Hz) were boosted by approx 6db and although fun, that created the distress I heard from the Captivators. It was actually during the computer room scene from the horrible movie Pulse (this is a notorious bass torture track). I have no idea why Audyssey did this (its inconsistency is one of the reasons I have issues with Audyssey's blind approach to EQ) but once I re-ran Audyssey the ELF boost and the distress" problem went away.

Virtually all subs can be over driven and should have an HP filter to avoid problems with the lowest frequencies when running @ high SPL's. That experience reminded me of Jeff's comment that an HP filter set to 14 or 15Hz with a 24db (i.e. gradual) slope would be a good idea. Looks like the ED unit will do the trick.
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post #136 of 4334
12/15/09 at 7:42am
Quote:


Looks like the ED unit will do the trick.

RMK, what is the ED unit? I am thinking of upgrading to a full JTR and upgrading my Receiver to the new OnkyoPro Pre/Pro PR-SC5507P and emotiva amps. I was also debating on getting the SVS AS-EQ1 sub EQ for the two Captivators.
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post #137 of 4334
12/15/09 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkman61 View Post

RMK, what is the ED unit? I am thinking of upgrading to a full JTR and upgrading my Receiver to the new OnkyoPro Pre/Pro PR-SC5507P and emotiva amps. I was also debating on getting the SVS AS-EQ1 sub EQ for the two Captivators.

The ed unit provides a couple bands of eq and an adjustable high pass filter. You generally want to filter out the low frequencies below the subwoofers tuning point, in the case of the Captivator below 15Hz. Ported subwoofers with built in amps have this to provide protection for the driver. We are talking about the ed unit more for it's High pass filtering than it's limited eq.
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post #138 of 4334
12/15/09 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Long story but since you asked, the problem was more of an Audyssey EQ problem than a specific problem witthe Captivators. When I first setup the Caps they and the Danley's were both run off of the Velo SMS-1 with a 15Hz HP (24db slope). When I purchased my new Integra SSP with dual discreet Sub Outs and to take advantage of Audyssey's distance level calibration, I decided to run the Danley's off of the SMS-1 and the Caps direct from the Integra (so no HP filter).

Like Pinktri, I have had no problems during normal (and for me that is 120db peaks) when the system is properly calibrated and EQed. During my initial Audyssey calibration with the new Integra, the lowest frequencies (<20Hz) were boosted by approx 6db and although fun, that created the distress I heard from the Captivators. It was actually during the computer room scene from the horrible movie Pulse (this is a notorious bass torture track). I have no idea why Audyssey did this (its inconsistency is one of the reasons I have issues with Audyssey's blind approach to EQ) but once I re-ran Audyssey the ELF boost and the distress" problem went away.

Virtually all subs can be over driven and should have an HP filter to avoid problems with the lowest frequencies when running @ high SPL's. That experience reminded me of Jeff's comment that an HP filter set to 14 or 15Hz with a 24db (i.e. gradual) slope would be a good idea. Looks like the ED unit will do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

The ed unit provides a couple bands of eq and an adjustable high pass filter. You generally want to filter out the low frequencies below the subwoofers tuning point, in the case of the Captivator below 15Hz. Ported subwoofers with built in amps have this to provide protection for the driver. We are talking about the ed unit more for it's High pass filtering than it's limited eq.

At the risk of sounding ignorant what is the ED acronym? Do you have a link to said device? I have a SVS sub now with the amp built in so it has all of the filtering within it. I will need to power the caps with the qsc or crest amps.
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post #139 of 4334
12/15/09 at 8:17am
Sorry, it's Elemental Designs.

Some pro audio amps come w/ High pass filtering but, I'm not sure if they are all adjustable like the ED is.
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post #140 of 4334
12/15/09 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

The ed unit provides a couple bands of eq and an adjustable high pass filter. You generally want to filter out the low frequencies below the subwoofers tuning point, in the case of the Captivator below 15Hz. Ported subwoofers with built in amps have this to provide protection for the driver. We are talking about the ed unit more for it's High pass filtering than it's limited eq.

Well said Tom. I actually purchased the eD unit specifically for the HP filter. for $100 it's well worth the peace of mind. I was tempted to go the even cheaper barrel Fmod route but decided what the heck. As far as the 2 channel eQ, it's not the best and has some sensitivity quirks but it's better than nothing. I guess it worked well enough that jeff decided to remove the antimode (which I love) from the equation which saved me some money on an eQ for my living room sub.
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post #141 of 4334
12/15/09 at 8:27am
So if one were to put in say the SVS AS-EQ1 this would not be required? Or is this just a simpler solution?
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post #142 of 4334
12/15/09 at 8:36am
nothing is really required. I ran my Cap straight from my receiver to amp to CAP for a little bit. But I believe the AS-EQ1 will offer everything plus more.
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post #143 of 4334
12/15/09 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkman61 View Post

So if one were to put in say the SVS AS-EQ1 this would not be required? Or is this just a simpler solution?

The SVS-AS-EQ1 will do HP filtering and Auto EQ via Audyssey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkman61 View Post

I have a SVS sub now with the amp built in so it has all of the filtering within it. I will need to power the caps with the qsc or crest amps.

You will need an amp and the QSC and Crest are options. Berringer 2500 is a less expensive option that many use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

nothing is really required. I ran my Cap straight from my receiver to amp to CAP for a little bit. But I believe the AS-EQ1 will offer everything plus more.

Agreed, the HP is a safety net rather than a necessity and there are many ways to do HP filters.
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post #144 of 4334
12/16/09 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

Well said Tom. I actually purchased the eD unit specifically for the HP filter. for $100 it's well worth the peace of mind. I was tempted to go the even cheaper barrel Fmod route but decided what the heck. As far as the 2 channel eQ, it's not the best and has some sensitivity quirks but it's better than nothing. I guess it worked well enough that jeff decided to remove the antimode (which I love) from the equation which saved me some money on an eQ for my living room sub.

Thanks for the tip on the ED unit pinktri. I ordered one and should have it this weekend.
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post #145 of 4334
12/16/09 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Thanks for the tip on the ED unit pinktri. I ordered one and should have it this weekend.

RMK, have you played the Blu-Ray of Terminator Salvation? You must! Holy cow! Awesomeness.
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post #146 of 4334
12/16/09 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

RMK, have you played the Blu-Ray of Terminator Salvation? You must! Holy cow! Awesomeness.

No, but I thought Julia & Julia had great bass. As I recall sautéed in butter and served over brown rice pilaf. Very nice...

Come to think of it I did see that Terminator movie. Arnold looked pretty good for 63
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post #147 of 4334
12/16/09 at 6:21pm
I must say, RMK's setup gives an intensity that one can't forgot, those Captivators and the Danleys are what the wife likes.....

And i thought fugueness's system with 4 submersives was the one to beat...
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post #148 of 4334
12/17/09 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

I must say, RMK's setup gives an intensity that one can't forgot, those Captivators and the Danleys are what the wife likes.....

And i thought fugueness's system with 4 submersives was the one to beat...

Thanks Wilson, Fugueness and I are having an informal SPL contest and right now it is very close but I fear that his pending dual Terraform XL's will force me to make a move. Your choice of dual DTS-10's puts you right in the game.

Welcome to the OTBC (Over the Top Bass Club).
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post #149 of 4334
12/18/09 at 11:10am
Just out of fantasy, RMK, what move could you or would you make in this SPL race with fugueness
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post #150 of 4334
12/18/09 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

Just out of fantasy, RMK, what move could you or would you make in this SPL race with fugueness

hmmm, change the t-8's at the sides with t-12's and replace the rear slanted 8's with the t-8's that were used at the sides, then order up a couple of growlers. Remember this is fantasy
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