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JTR Captivator - Page 67

post #1981 of 4334
7/6/11 at 8:03am
LR and all: I can ECSTATICALLY announce that the drivers are in and I will be picking up my Cap TOMORROW.

The black oak seems to have turned out beautifully and well-worth the additional change.




James
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post #1982 of 4334
7/6/11 at 8:18am
The veneer looks great. How much is the premium for that?
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post #1983 of 4334
7/6/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
LR: I can ECSTATICALLY announce that the drivers are in and I will be picking up my Cap TOMORROW.

The black oak seems to have turned out beautifully and well-worth the additional change.




James
I have speakers that match them perfectly and can keep up!!! My M&K S-5000's
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post #1984 of 4334
7/6/11 at 8:42am
Nitpicky comment... but if one were to use the grille cover, which covers almost the entire front surface, the oak grain on the top of the sub might look better running in the other direction, which would tie in to the side panels with a nicer flow. That way all of the visible grain would be similarly oriented. That's how my current sub cabinets are and I think it looks a little nicer. Might not even be noticeable in real world use, though. This picture may highlight the grain a little more than normal. Other than that I think it looks quite good!
BTW, I think the veneer was about $300 extra.
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post #1985 of 4334
7/6/11 at 8:49am
^ I understand what you're asserting and I've seen it done both ways. Really, to me it's a horse apiece, as you really don't pay much attention to it, especially from 3 feet and beyond.

If it's any consolation, I'm fairly certain the bottom of the cab/ports area is still exposed though, at least.

James
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post #1986 of 4334
7/6/11 at 9:14am
Nice one, MK.

I am seriously considering going with (11) of them (MK S-5000's), adding another Cap, and calling it a day for a good LONG while once I get my house scenario finalized.

James
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post #1987 of 4334
7/6/11 at 10:20am
That sub is a beaut.
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post #1988 of 4334
7/6/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Nice one, MK.

I am seriously considering going with (11) of them (MK S-5000's), adding another Cap, and calling it a day for a good LONG while once I get my house scenario finalized.

James

I am also testing BFM's DR-200's and will keep what I like better. The S-5000's are black oak, they might not match exactly but close enough. The 5000's can play extremely loud and take massive power. Their ratings are very conservative. They measured to be 92-94 db's sensitive and can play 130 db's without disturbing the wave form. I thought that was impressive. They are accurate and neutral so many might call them lifeless(usually people who say that like warmer or more midrange). Finding them is the problem as they are no longer available. PM me if you want to discuss more. The Cap in black wood trim looks nice!!!! There, back on topic
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post #1989 of 4334
7/6/11 at 10:43am
I ran I couple of tests to see if I could get my Captivator to make bad noises. I used the scenes from Hulk and Inception that were previously mentioned.

Hulk (Bass Cannons): I managed a 116db peak reading from 15 feet at my seats. I didn't find the sub to be distressing, but there was so much vibration going on in the room that it was sometimes hard to tell. The same scene from 2m buried the meter at 126+db. By comparison, the PB13 peaked out at 111db measured at 12 feet from the seats.

Inception (Bathtub scene): Captivator 115db peak. PB13 108db peak.

Keep in mind that my Captivator is just one a a few of the varieties of 2011 Captivators out there. It is of the first run (in fact, it is the first unit that was shipped out) and it is in native 15hz tune with both ports open, powered by a Behringer EP2500 and has a 14hz filter engaged. All readings were in a 6000+ cu.ft. room that is wide open to the whole house. All-in-all, I had more concern about things breaking in the room than I did of breaking the sub.
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post #1990 of 4334
7/6/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I ran I couple of tests to see if I could get my Captivator to make bad noises. I used the scenes from Hulk and Inception that were previously mentioned.

Hulk (Bass Cannons): I managed a 116db peak reading from 15 feet at my seats. I didn't find the sub to be distressing, but there was so much vibration going on in the room that it was sometimes hard to tell. The same scene from 2m buried the meter at 126+db. By comparison, the PB13 peaked out at 111db measured at 12 feet from the seats.

Inception (Bathtub scene): Captivator 115db peak. PB13 108db peak.

Keep in mind that my Captivator is just one a a few of the varieties of 2011 Captivators out there. It is of the first run (in fact, it is the first unit that was shipped out) and it is in native 15hz tune with both ports open, powered by a Behringer EP2500 and has a 14hz filter engaged. All readings were in a 6000+ cu.ft. room that is wide open to the whole house. All-in-all, I had more concern about things breaking in the room than I did of breaking the sub.

I really like the 15hz tune(native with more port area) than the new design requiring a port for 15hz. I wonder how much of a difference there is as power is concerned from both designs?
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post #1991 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:03am
Mojo, this is still without EQing the low end of the Cap up, correct?
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post #1992 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:04am
just for clarity, you mean "requiring a port PLUG", right MK?

I think I too would have jumped at a native 15 model, especially considering I'll eventually have two.

And mojo, I'm assuming you're hitting these figures at or near "0" on your vol dial? As I would assume the peaks in either movie are near the "reference" LFE of 115dbs at the LP.

thanks,

James
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post #1993 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Mojo, this is still without EQing the low end of the Cap up, correct?

For these tests, the eq that I normally run was in effect. My eq doesn't do any degree of response "tilting," but just smooths out some irregularities.
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post #1994 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

just for clarity, you mean "requiring a port PLUG", right MK?

I think I too would have jumped at a native 15 model, especially considering I'll eventually have two.

And mojo, I'm assuming you're hitting these figures at or near "0" on your dial? As I would assume the peaks in either movie are near the "reference" LFE of 115dbs at the LP.

thanks,

James

For these tests, I boosted the sub levels way up. Actual reference levels and calibration were not relevent here. These were the highest levels was able to hit using each sub idividually without regard to overall reference levels.
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post #1995 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

just for clarity, you mean "requiring a port PLUG", right MK?

I think I too would have jumped at a native 15 model, especially considering I'll eventually have two.

And mojo, I'm assuming you're hitting these figures at or near "0" on your vol dial? As I would assume the peaks in either movie are near the "reference" LFE of 115dbs at the LP.

thanks,

James

Yes, having a 15hz tune with no ports plugged seems like a better way to do it. I guess if the port makes no noises and the spl is the same than the difference does not matter.
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post #1996 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I really like the 15hz tune(native with more port area) than the new design requiring a port for 15hz. I wonder how much of a difference there is as power is concerned from both designs?

I too really like the 15hz native tune. It is one of the things that originally sold me on the Captivator. According to Jeff's charts, tuning to 15hz you give up about 4db@20hz in exchange for the deep extension. I think it's worth it because it keeps that much more material above the tuning point. There seems to be a lot of power in movie soundtracks between 15 and 20hz. I'd rather not have that below tuning on a ported sub.

I wonder if one can persuade Jeff to still build it that way on request?
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post #1997 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I too really like the 15hz native tune. It is one of the things that originally sold me on the Captivator. According to Jeff's charts, tuning to 15hz you give up about 4db@20hz in exchange for the deep extension. I think it's worth it because it keeps that much more material above the tuning point. There seems to be a lot of power in movie soundtracks between 15 and 20hz. I'd rather not have that below tuning on a ported sub.

I wonder if one can persuade Jeff to still build it that way on request?

Which brings me back to the original cap tuned at 11-12hz. The lower the tune the less need for a HP filter, especially in mutliples. How about a 11hz tuned Cap!!!! I know, it is what it is. I am trying out some F-20's(AVS member designed) so it should be fun. If I feel something is lacking(low frequencies) and will then go to a RE XXX DIY build.
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post #1998 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Which brings me back to the original cap tuned at 11-12hz. The lower the tune the less need for a HP filter, especially in mutliples. How about a 11hz tuned Cap!!!! I know, it is what it is. I am trying out some F-20's(AVS member designed) so it should be fun. If I feel something is lacking(low frequencies) and will then go to a RE XXX DIY build.

The original Cap was a much larger sub. I'm not sure how much lower the tuning can go with the current box size. It's already a pretty small box for an 18" sub with 15hz tuning.
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post #1999 of 4334
7/6/11 at 11:48am
I guess my question is then: if top-shelf scenes like these don't hit the 115db max LFE peak at the LP @ "reference" what are some that do?

I mean obviously you have the sub and amplification that can do it (as shown by your output after "hotting up" the settings, but are there any BD's straightaway that exploit that 115db peak for the LFE channel? Or are most in the 105 range, same for the main channels?

Or perhaps, following your explanation, you were BELOW reference overall, and simply had the LFE channel boosted quite a bit (let's say 10dbs) while the MV was ~-10dbs?

Just curious.

thanks,
James
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post #2000 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:09pm
115db is the max levels one will hit in the LFE channel if standard calibration is used. That doesn't mean that all scenes are recorded that hot. Only the hottest of scenes will hit 115db.
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post #2001 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:17pm
Not as easy as one might think. I have concrete walls and floors which rob you of bass but I love the sound quality from it. A single SVS PB/plus/2 hit 101-110db's depending on the seat(one sub could not even out the response to every seat) during for an example FOTP which is a hot 20-25hz scene. The 110 db's came from the closet seat and 101 from the farthest, all in the front row. That SVS was said to be a 121 db at 25hz sub in a corner. It took 2 of them to equal a single sealed eD sub at the same frequency and 3 or more to equal one ported eD I built.

Like Mojo stated every room is different. All these outdoors numbers are from 1-2 meters and we listen at what, 3-6 meters away. I am doing a little research to see what subs are getting outside and what I get in room at the LP so I know what to expect at the LP.
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post #2002 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

115db is the max levels one will hit in the LFE channel if standard calibration is used. That doesn't mean that all scenes are recorded that hot. Only the hottest of scenes will hit 115db.

Not with bass management and all the speaker's bass going to the sub or subs.
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post #2003 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

115db is the max levels one will hit in the LFE channel if standard calibration is used. That doesn't mean that all scenes are recorded that hot. Only the hottest of scenes will hit 115db.

I realize this. I asked if anyone knows of any BDs that DO.

It seems to me that many may not even get close, as it appears that even heavy hitters like these need to be ran very warm to reach these peak SPLs.


James
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post #2004 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:28pm
I didn't say it'd be easy per se, but that doesn't mean it's not reasonably doable for many.

After room gain, my single Trinity routinely hit around 120dbs at the LP and I fully expect the Cap to do the same. Just a 1600 cube room though.

And without getting too far off track, seeing 115db peaks are within the "standard", is it really possible for source material to be recorded "hot"? I mean theoretically that's where the director/sound engineer desired it to be, correct?


James
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post #2005 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:41pm
Well, it depends on the disc and what level it was recorded. I mean, you can play as loud as you want as long as it sounds good to you. 121 or so db's is the max a system can hit if calibrated flat. This is only if the scene was recorded at 0db's. FOTP plane crash will hit high spl's which I use. I think there are some new movies to use but I have not measured spl's in a while. Tron:Legacy and How to Train your Dragon hit hard as well as Battle:LA. These will play high spl's and moreso than others. WOTW plays high and the usual suspects. Don't play very low scenes as the spl meter will not record high numbers unless correction values are added.
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post #2006 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:53pm
Cool, just wanted to make sure we're all on the same wave length.

James
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post #2007 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Not with bass management and all the speaker's bass going to the sub or subs.

You are correct in theory. If there is a lot of bass in the main channels which is redirected to the sub/LFE, you could get greater than 115db under those conditions.
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post #2008 of 4334
7/6/11 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Cool, just wanted to make sure we're all on the same wave length.

James

Yes sir, when I play over 126 db's or pin the meter at the seat it is obviously running hot. I got so many questions I added that I run above reference in my signature for a time.
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post #2009 of 4334
7/6/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Don't play very low scenes as the spl meter will not record high numbers unless correction values are added.

That is a good point. A scene with 115db@20hz might read much lower than 115db unless the content higher up in the spectrum was just as loud.
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post #2010 of 4334
7/6/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

You are correct in theory. If there is a lot of bass in the main channels which is redirected to the sub/LFE, you could get greater than 115db under those conditions.

Yes, I thought the calcualted max(all speakers going and LFE) would equal to about 121+ db's. This does not happen often though so if we are getting higher than 121 db's then we are running hot.
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