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JTR Captivator - Page 126

post #3751 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Two Inuke's won't do you much better than one Inuke.
Reason being the JTR Captivator driver is a dual 4ohm voice coils sub meaning you can wire the voicecoils either to 2 or 8 ohms total resistance.


I was looking on the JTR website and it shows the Captivators are available in 2,4 or 8 ohm configs?

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

* available passively with binding posts or speakon connectors and 2, 4 or 8 ohm for $1499
post #3752 of 4725
Hi everyone,

I'm interested in your thoughts regarding recommended power for a 4 ohm Captivator sub (80% movies and 20% music).

I would like to use a W4S amp (570 watts @ 8 ohm / 1,140 watts @ 4 ohm) but I am not sure if it has enough power to reach reference levels. My math (assuming it's correct) tells me that a 4 ohm Captivator would produce 103 dB at the first row of seats which would be 12 feet from the speaker. Would 103 dB be considered reference levels - if not what would be considered reference levels?

If this amp is not going to have enough power to drive these speakers I'll be looking at getting a Pro Amp. Something along the lines of a QSC RMX5050 should do it. biggrin.gif

I'm trying to avoid using a Pro Amp due to the dreaded fan noise and additional power run. Yes I am aware of fan mods and hiding the amp in closets - I'm trying to avoid the use of both.

The room size will be 17.5' W x 20' D x 7.5' H (open on one side and end). I would be running 2 Captivators on 2 separate channels.

I posted this question in the W4S owners thread but I haven't had any success.

Cheers!
-- Bill --
post #3753 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Hi everyone,
I'm interested in your thoughts regarding recommended power for a 4 ohm Captivator sub (80% movies and 20% music).
I would like to use a W4S amp (570 watts @ 8 ohm / 1,140 watts @ 4 ohm) but I am not sure if it has enough power to reach reference levels. My math (assuming it's correct) tells me that a 4 ohm Captivator would produce 103 dB at the first row of seats which would be 12 feet from the speaker. Would 103 dB be considered reference levels - if not what would be considered reference levels?
If this amp is not going to have enough power to drive these speakers I'll be looking at getting a Pro Amp. Something along the lines of a QSC RMX5050 should do it. biggrin.gif
I'm trying to avoid using a Pro Amp due to the dreaded fan noise and additional power run. Yes I am aware of fan mods and hiding the amp in closets - I'm trying to avoid the use of both.
The room size will be 17.5' W x 20' D x 7.5' H (open on one side and end). I would be running 2 Captivators on 2 separate channels.
I posted this question in the W4S owners thread but I haven't had any success.
Cheers!
-- Bill --

Reference for the LFE channel is 115db. 103 is definitely not reference for the LFE channel, but your math is off. 1140 watts should produce more than 121db @ 1m. At 12 feet, the level should be about 109db. This does not take room gain into account. With room gain, you should easily be able to obtain 115db at your listening position.
post #3754 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Hi everyone,
I'm interested in your thoughts regarding recommended power for a 4 ohm Captivator sub (80% movies and 20% music).
I would like to use a W4S amp (570 watts @ 8 ohm / 1,140 watts @ 4 ohm) but I am not sure if it has enough power to reach reference levels. My math (assuming it's correct) tells me that a 4 ohm Captivator would produce 103 dB at the first row of seats which would be 12 feet from the speaker. Would 103 dB be considered reference levels - if not what would be considered reference levels?
If this amp is not going to have enough power to drive these speakers I'll be looking at getting a Pro Amp. Something along the lines of a QSC RMX5050 should do it. biggrin.gif
I'm trying to avoid using a Pro Amp due to the dreaded fan noise and additional power run. Yes I am aware of fan mods and hiding the amp in closets - I'm trying to avoid the use of both.
The room size will be 17.5' W x 20' D x 7.5' H (open on one side and end). I would be running 2 Captivators on 2 separate channels.
I posted this question in the W4S owners thread but I haven't had any success.
Cheers!
-- Bill --

Reference for the LFE channel is 115db. 103 is definitely not reference for the LFE channel, but your math is off. 1140 watts should produce more than 121db @ 1m. At 12 feet, the level should be about 109db. This does not take room gain into account. With room gain, you should easily be able to obtain 115db at your listening position.

Thanks for correcting my math and clarifying reference levels for the LFE.

It looks like the W4S amp will work.

Thanks!
-- Bill --
post #3755 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Thanks for correcting my math and clarifying reference levels for the LFE.
It looks like the W4S amp will work.
Thanks!
-- Bill --

Why not just get a powered Cap or use the same amp Jeff uses.
While the W4S amp would work, It costs around the same as
the one that comes in the Cap 2400 watt. I am Sure it is much better
suited for your situation.
My understanding is "Most" Cap owners get the passive version to
save money on the amp.
Get the most out of your Caps performance you can by calling Jeff.
Whatever you decide let us know how it turned out.
Good Luck
WVchris

I just read your 3 questions on the W4S thread
CALL JEFF
you risk getting bad information if you do not!!!!
Edited by countryWV - 8/29/12 at 5:07am
post #3756 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Thanks for correcting my math and clarifying reference levels for the LFE.
It looks like the W4S amp will work.
Thanks!
-- Bill --

Why not just get a powered Cap or use the same amp Jeff uses.
While the W4S amp would work, It costs around the same as
the one that comes in the Cap 2400 watt. I am Sure it is much better
suited for your situation.
My understanding is "Most" Cap owners get the passive version to
save money on the amp.
Get the most out of your Caps performance you can by calling Jeff.
Whatever you decide let us know how it turned out.
Good Luck
WVchris

I just read your 3 questions on the W4S thread
CALL JEFF
you risk getting bad information if you do not!!!!

Hi WV,

You offer sound advise {pun intended) above which got me to rethink (again) my wants and needs. It is now obvious to me that I have the cart before the horse. I SHOULD be concentrating on which speakers will best meet my needs and THEN look and what amps would best meet those needs. The "best amp" question should then be directed to the designer of that speaker system. Thanks for the clarity.

My shortlist of speakers has come down to JTR (T12-lp's / Cap's) and Danley (SH-50's & SH-69 / TH-118's) and auditioning both of these speakers has been somewhat of a challenge. With respect to the Danley's I may just have to go down to their factory demo room.

Sorry if I'm rambling on - my intention is not to derail this fine thread.

Cheers!
-- Bill --
post #3757 of 4725
Alright, I don't mean to change the subject but I need to pick at someones brain for information. I finally ordered a Captivator yesterday from Jeff!biggrin.gif WOOT! I can't wait to get this thing! Yes, he is the best person and company that I have ever dealt with bar-non!!! I'm pretty sure this is in a different thread but I don't care and I would like peoples' input from this thread in particular due to all of the other post information that I have read; which leads me to believe that I have been in the right place from the get go.

Archaea, the Son, mojomike (who has already steered me in the right direction, thank you) I need info on how to calibrate one of these. I know this might seem elementary to most of you but I've never done this before. Therefor, since most of you already own one of these monsters you'd be helping me out. . . BIG TIME!

Using a Radio Shack SPL meter, which I don't possess yet, what do I need to do? Is there a certain decibel level I need to hit at a certain distance? Please explain this process to me. My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-53 Elite that has the calibration mic with it. I prefer to use my calibrated ear:p to fine tune the EQ more to my personal likings, which I have already done. I'm all about movies and some music. Not sure if that's necessary or not I don't understand attenuation, Q, etc. that the program has built into it. I can Google that info to further educate myself down the pike I guess.

Second, this is just as important, are any of you guys using an XLR cable that is being adapted to RCA? If so have you had any negative experience? My Pioneer doesn't have the XLR connection for the sub. I plan on purchasing a Blue Jean 15ft XLR belden 1800 cable. Then I've had my eyes on a Cardas XLR to RCA adapter. I've been torn between buying the expensive Cardas adapter or just buying an el cheapo adapter from guitar center. I can't believe those guys here in Wichita, Kansas. I was asking them if they had an XLR cable that had a 75ohm and 110ohm, analog and digital capable cable right. Now I know what a deer looks like starring into those bright head lights just before impact!!! Man, that got me nowhere!mad.gif

I invite anyone with higher technical experience in these matters to chime in. This will be my first time to actually tweak the settings that I've paid for instead of just a plug-and-play system.

Thanks guys!
post #3758 of 4725
RX-8
If you get a chance read the JTR Speakers forum.
Lots of posts over the last few months on T12's.
I LOVE MINE.
As for subwoofer amps it is always better to give
the subs their own power and the speakers their
own power supply.
If you share the amp there would be "almost" no
way to get 1140 watts from the W4S to the subs.
I have a D-SONIC M2 which is almost the same
[less $$$$] powering my t12"s and love it too.
I believe pulling 1140 watts from the W4S multichannel
amps is OPTIMISTIC at best.
Best to give sub(s) own amp and if possible own 20amp
circuit.
keep reading through the threads of interest and you
will come up with a plan,
I give JTR and SEATON products my Blind Faith purchase
RECOMMENDATION
I know BFD
You are headed in the right direction.
Good Luck
WVchris
ARCHAEA is one of the most knowledgable and helpful
individuals on this thread when it comes to
all things about subwwoofer and amp questions.
So is Mojomike.
Edited by countryWV - 8/30/12 at 11:24am
post #3759 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeItLouder View Post

Alright, I don't mean to change the subject but I need to pick at someones brain for information. I finally ordered a Captivator yesterday from Jeff!biggrin.gif WOOT! I can't wait to get this thing! Yes, he is the best person and company that I have ever dealt with bar-non!!! I'm pretty sure this is in a different thread but I don't care and I would like peoples' input from this thread in particular due to all of the other post information that I have read; which leads me to believe that I have been in the right place from the get go.
Archaea, the Son, mojomike (who has already steered me in the right direction, thank you) I need info on how to calibrate one of these. I know this might seem elementary to most of you but I've never done this before. Therefor, since most of you already own one of these monsters you'd be helping me out. . . BIG TIME!
Using a Radio Shack SPL meter, which I don't possess yet, what do I need to do? Is there a certain decibel level I need to hit at a certain distance? Please explain this process to me. My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-53 Elite that has the calibration mic with it. I prefer to use my calibrated ear:p to fine tune the EQ more to my personal likings, which I have already done. I'm all about movies and some music. Not sure if that's necessary or not I don't understand attenuation, Q, etc. that the program has built into it. I can Google that info to further educate myself down the pike I guess.
Second, this is just as important, are any of you guys using an XLR cable that is being adapted to RCA? If so have you had any negative experience? My Pioneer doesn't have the XLR connection for the sub. I plan on purchasing a Blue Jean 15ft XLR belden 1800 cable. Then I've had my eyes on a Cardas XLR to RCA adapter. I've been torn between buying the expensive Cardas adapter or just buying an el cheapo adapter from guitar center. I can't believe those guys here in Wichita, Kansas. I was asking them if they had an XLR cable that had a 75ohm and 110ohm, analog and digital capable cable right. Now I know what a deer looks like starring into those bright head lights just before impact!!! Man, that got me nowhere!mad.gif
I invite anyone with higher technical experience in these matters to chime in. This will be my first time to actually tweak the settings that I've paid for instead of just a plug-and-play system.
Thanks guys!

Let the auto-calibration do it's thing, then further adjust if necessary. Most often, the AVR can do a better job setting the channel delays to compenste for distance better than you can. When you adjust manually, the AVR will typically send out a 75db test signal which with a Radio Shack meter, you use to set all of the channels to 75db at your main listening position. If you do not like the way the auto-calibration sounds to you, you can then manual tweak the levels higher or to your taste. Refer to the manual that came with your AVR for details on manual settings. You also may want to manually adjust the crossover settings. They should depend on what speakers you are using. Once again, I'd let the AVR do it's thing first, then determine if the choices it made are the best for your setup.

I've personally used RCA/XLR adapters with no problems at all. Nothing exotic is required.
post #3760 of 4725
Ok thanks mojo! I appreciate it!
post #3761 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

RX-8
If you get a chance read the JTR Speakers forum.
Lots of posts over the last few months on T12's.
I LOVE MINE.
As for subwoofer amps it is always better to give
the subs their own power and the speakers their
own power supply.
If you share the amp there would be "almost" no
way to get 1170 watts from the W4S to the subs.
I have a D-SONIC M2 which is almost the same
[less $$$$] powering my t12"s and love it too.
I believe pulling 1170 watts from the W4S multichannel
amps is OPTIMISTIC at best.
Best to give sub(s) own amp and if possible own 20amp
circuit.
keep reading through the threads of interest and you
will come up with a plan,
I give JTR and SEATON products my Blind Faith purchase
RECOMMENDATION
I know BFD
You are headed in the right direction.
Good Luck
WVchris
ARCHAEA is one of the most knowledgable and helpful
individuals on this thread when it comes to
all things about subwwoofer and amp questions.

Hi WV,

Again more solid advise - thanks!

Yes I've been many spending hours reading the various speaker, pre-pro, amp, screen, and projector threads - the wife thinks that I'm crazy. Next month I'll be 58 and I've been retired for the last 18 months so life is good. She works from home when she's not globetrotting around the world with her job. She works for a major oil company and still has another 17 months to go before she retires. We both love movies.

Now I just have to nail down which of the speakers to go with (Danley vs. JTR). I've started to realize that I'm at the point where I just may do a blind faith purchase on either of the speakers. Once that's done I'll listen carefully to THEIR advise as to what direction I should go with respect to the amps. I suspect they will recommend multiple Pro Amps across the board or a least for the 2 subs. I'm going to cali the Danley Canadian distributor latter today or tomorrow for Canadian pricing and make my purchasing decision at that point. I really don't think that you can make a bad decision between those 2 speaker makers. i'm leaning towards the Danley's for a few reasons but they are about twice the cost of the JTR's. If the Canadian pricing is similar to the US pricing I will probably go that route. If not I'll be the proud owner of some JTR's after I speak to Jeff.

Many thanks to everyone for their honest and sincere comments.

BTW, we'll be leaving Friday with our Miata club to do our annual tour of the backroads of WV. So if you see a bunch of Miata's down there give us a wave because it will probably be us. biggrin.gif

Cheers!
-- Bill --
post #3762 of 4725
There's a rather large difference between Danley and JTR. The JTR gear will never be able to compare or compete with the offerings from Danley. Danley is also much, MUCH more expensive than anything else you might think about buying. Kudos to you though if you've got the cash to get Danley gear.
post #3763 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeItLouder View Post

Alright, I don't mean to change the subject but I need to pick at someones brain for information. I finally ordered a Captivator yesterday from Jeff!biggrin.gif WOOT! I can't wait to get this thing! Yes, he is the best person and company that I have ever dealt with bar-non!!! I'm pretty sure this is in a different thread but I don't care and I would like peoples' input from this thread in particular due to all of the other post information that I have read; which leads me to believe that I have been in the right place from the get go.
Archaea, the Son, mojomike (who has already steered me in the right direction, thank you) I need info on how to calibrate one of these. I know this might seem elementary to most of you but I've never done this before. Therefor, since most of you already own one of these monsters you'd be helping me out. . . BIG TIME!
Using a Radio Shack SPL meter, which I don't possess yet, what do I need to do? Is there a certain decibel level I need to hit at a certain distance? Please explain this process to me. My receiver is a Pioneer VSX-53 Elite that has the calibration mic with it. I prefer to use my calibrated ear:p to fine tune the EQ more to my personal likings, which I have already done. I'm all about movies and some music. Not sure if that's necessary or not I don't understand attenuation, Q, etc. that the program has built into it. I can Google that info to further educate myself down the pike I guess.
Second, this is just as important, are any of you guys using an XLR cable that is being adapted to RCA? If so have you had any negative experience? My Pioneer doesn't have the XLR connection for the sub. I plan on purchasing a Blue Jean 15ft XLR belden 1800 cable. Then I've had my eyes on a Cardas XLR to RCA adapter. I've been torn between buying the expensive Cardas adapter or just buying an el cheapo adapter from guitar center. I can't believe those guys here in Wichita, Kansas. I was asking them if they had an XLR cable that had a 75ohm and 110ohm, analog and digital capable cable right. Now I know what a deer looks like starring into those bright head lights just before impact!!! Man, that got me nowhere!mad.gif
I invite anyone with higher technical experience in these matters to chime in. This will be my first time to actually tweak the settings that I've paid for instead of just a plug-and-play system.
Thanks guys!

I'm using cheapo Dayton XLR/RCA adapters from Parts Express with no troubles.

As for calibration, I agree with mojomike. Let the Pioneer calibrate, then manually tweak if needed to suit your preferences.
post #3764 of 4725
That's what I'll end up sticking with, I just wasn't sure if there was anything else to do on top of that. I've seen plenty of videos with people using SPL meters and I was just curious about it. The Pioneer does a really good job calibrating my 7.1 system all together. The middle of the room is where the mic did it's calibration and the settings it generated have a perfect balance from the front to the rears. I do like the additional option to have multiple calibrations stored within the receiver. So, I can do a fully automated run, save it and use that setting for a more conservative sound. After that I used the same calibration template and I go into the manual EQ option to set each individual channel to a much crisper, cleaner, and louder setting.

Now I just need to upgrade the center and all of the rear speakers to the fxi a6's and the csi a6 center to match my rti a9's, and Emotivas XPA-3 200w/channel for the front R/C/L channels and a new entertainment center and I'm finished. . . . . .for now biggrin.gif. Once the Captivator arrives I'll have to take a mass of pictures. I haven't had the time to take any to put into my profile yet HAHAHa!

I'm going to look back into parts express. I bought something from them a while ago and they'll send me their catalog every once in a blue moon. Thanks for reminding me of them I can't believe I forgot about them!
post #3765 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

There's a rather large difference between Danley and JTR. The JTR gear will never be able to compare or compete with the offerings from Danley. Danley is also much, MUCH more expensive than anything else you might think about buying. Kudos to you though if you've got the cash to get Danley gear.

I've got a suggestion for you ... Before expressing an opinion, try actually listening to the products that you are opining on ... rolleyes.gif

That said, I have heard and like both ... smile.gif
post #3766 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak

There's a rather large difference between Danley and JTR. The JTR gear will never be able to compare or compete with the offerings from Danley. Danley is also much, MUCH more expensive than anything else you might think about buying. Kudos to you though if you've got the cash to get Danley gear.



I've got a suggestion for you ... Before expressing an opinion, try actually listening to the products that you are opining on ...

That said, I have heard and like both ...




Having been in those shoes a little while back, I must say that I also considered between Danley and JTR. I settled on the JTR Captivator S2 and am floored by its performance. Personally, I knew I couldn't go wrong with either one however, I don't think Danley currently has anything in the size of the S2 that can play as loud and dig down as deep. The JTR Captivator S2 is a reletavely small box compared to the performance you get. Actually, it's a pretty small box, period.

I am truy happy with my decision.
post #3767 of 4725
From objective measurements danley makes some of the best loudspeakers out there.

Danley tapped horn subs are made for volume though, not extension. So i would say danley loudspeakers are better, but unless youre trying to fill a church sized room i much rather have a captivator S2.
post #3768 of 4725
The DTS-10 will extend to 10 hz in room, 9 in mine. It was the best deal going with the kit price.
post #3769 of 4725
Yup! but it is huge! I considered it but could not find a place to hide it in the HT room.
post #3770 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The DTS-10 will extend to 10 hz in room, 9 in mine. It was the best deal going with the kit price.

"was" being the operative term. At $3K for the passive (nearly $5500 for the powered) version plus shipping, it is a far less attractive option. The DTS-10 Kit was an acknowledged "loss leader" for Danley.
post #3771 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

"was" being the operative term. At $3K for the passive (nearly $5500 for the powered) version plus shipping, it is a far less attractive option. The DTS-10 Kit was an acknowledged "loss leader" for Danley.

I would rather have two OS LFU for $5,998.00 smile.gif
post #3772 of 4725
I have never heard the Danleys but I can't imagine a better sub than the Cap S2's. I'm currently running dual S2's and I don't even think about wanting more headroom. They continue to impress me more every time I listen to them.
post #3773 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Hi WV,
Again more solid advise - thanks!
Yes I've been many spending hours reading the various speaker, pre-pro, amp, screen, and projector threads - the wife thinks that I'm crazy. Next month I'll be 58 and I've been retired for the last 18 months so life is good. She works from home when she's not globetrotting around the world with her job. She works for a major oil company and still has another 17 months to go before she retires. We both love movies.
Now I just have to nail down which of the speakers to go with (Danley vs. JTR). I've started to realize that I'm at the point where I just may do a blind faith purchase on either of the speakers. Once that's done I'll listen carefully to THEIR advise as to what direction I should go with respect to the amps. I suspect they will recommend multiple Pro Amps across the board or a least for the 2 subs. I'm going to cali the Danley Canadian distributor latter today or tomorrow for Canadian pricing and make my purchasing decision at that point. I really don't think that you can make a bad decision between those 2 speaker makers. i'm leaning towards the Danley's for a few reasons but they are about twice the cost of the JTR's. If the Canadian pricing is similar to the US pricing I will probably go that route. If not I'll be the proud owner of some JTR's after I speak to Jeff.
Many thanks to everyone for their honest and sincere comments.
BTW, we'll be leaving Friday with our Miata club to do our annual tour of the backroads of WV. So if you see a bunch of Miata's down there give us a wave because it will probably be us. biggrin.gif
Cheers!
-- Bill --

Hello Bill,

regarding your choice of speakers I have sent you a PM that might be of interest ;-)
post #3774 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

I have never heard the Danleys but I can't imagine a better sub than the Cap S2's. I'm currently running dual S2's and I don't even think about wanting more headroom. They continue to impress me more every time I listen to them.

I am sure the S2 is a great sub as I trust Jeff to make great products. The DTS-10 is under estimated for sure, yeah it is huge, Josh also said it takes 2 LMS ultra's to equal one DTS-10 from 12 hz and up and the 2 LMS has more displacement than the S2 drivers. That is all. It is huge and the reason I got rid of them.
post #3775 of 4725
...and above 50hz the DTS-10 won't be your ally, while the S2's will.

I am looking forward to hearing a DTS-10 properly implemented and calibrated at nebrunner's in late october in the Omaha G2G.
post #3776 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

...and above 50hz the DTS-10 won't be your ally, while the S2's will.
I am looking forward to hearing a DTS-10 properly implemented and calibrated at nebrunner's in late october in the Omaha G2G.

In real use the DTS-10's were great above 50hz. I still prefer many sealed as it is as easy as it gets but ask Josh about why the distortion was much higher than it really should be. It does not matter because the kit is no more and I would rather build a sealed sub system like I did to get to 4hz!
post #3777 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

In real use the DTS-10's were great above 50hz. I still prefer many sealed as it is as easy as it gets but ask Josh about why the distortion was much higher than it really should be. It does not matter because the kit is no more and I would rather build a sealed sub system like I did to get to 4hz!

Is there even a single scene from any commercial movie out there that goes down that low? Or is it the same analogy as trying to overclock a CPU to reach the highest imaginable clock speed using dry ice as a cooling source in the world of computers? biggrin.gif
post #3778 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopaddiction View Post

Is there even a single scene from any commercial movie out there that goes down that low? Or is it the same analogy as trying to overclock a CPU to reach the highest imaginable clock speed using dry ice as a cooling source in the world of computers? biggrin.gif

There are many, with my room not going for the 3-120hz spec would be wasted. The S2's should be able to do the same thing in multiples.
post #3779 of 4725
Hey guys:

Are Cap S2's available in a passive version?

thanks!

James
post #3780 of 4725
When it comes to dealing with JTR, almost anything might be possible. You just need to call Jeff and ask. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't build a passive one for you. Obviously, you would need to supply it with a very powerful amp and some eq.
Edited by mojomike - 9/4/12 at 9:51am
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