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JTR Captivator - Page 127

post #3781 of 4725
Yep, I have the EQ and amp...it just comes down to something similar to the $1000 premium with the powered Cap over the passive: what can you for less than $1000 on your own?

Seeing I already have the amp and EQ, I'd like to try.

James
post #3782 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Yep, I have the EQ and amp...it just comes down to something similar to the $1000 premium with the powered Cap over the passive: what can you for less than $1000 on your own?
Seeing I already have the amp and EQ, I'd like to try.
James

Since the Crown XLS-5000 is extinct, it's a bit harder to find big power on the cheap.

I think Archaea said something about a comparable Cerwin Vega amp. CV-5000 for around $750 as I recall.
post #3783 of 4725
Yes - as low as $680 with the recent 15% off coupon code. Specs are pretty identical to the XLS-5000.

Both 5000 watt rated, both battle tank heavy (~80lbs) both 3u rack size, and the CV-5000 actually has a few more bells and whistles... eek.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1427623/cerwin-vega-cv-5000-pro-audio-amp-for-680-at-guitarcenter-com-using-15-off-couponcode-lday15/0_20

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html
The XLS-5000 has a single fan, the CV-5000 has two fans. The XLS-5000 has limited connectivity options, the CV-5000 has built in HPF, and minimally more connection options. It is possible with such similar specs that one is a rebadge of the other and the electronics are similar or even identical.
post #3784 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Since the Crown XLS-5000 is extinct, it's a bit harder to find big power on the cheap.
I think Archaea said something about a comparable Cerwin Vega amp. CV-5000 for around $750 as I recall.

I already have one, thanks. And thanks for the CV option, but I'd prolly pass on it over a Crown unless I were to find out a little bit more about who's building them, how.

All a bit moot anyway as Jeff does NOT offer a passive S1 or S2.

James
post #3785 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I already have one, thanks. And thanks for the CV option, but I'd prolly pass on it over a Crown unless I were to find out a little bit more about who's building them, how.
All a bit moot anyway as Jeff does NOT offer a passive S1 or S2.
James
James
If that Crown amp is hard to get mabey you could sell it for more
than you paid and apply that towards a powered version Cap S2.
All other aspects aside that S2 seams to be a GREAT DEAL!!!
I imagine with Jeffs amp and DSP it is a force to be reckoned with.
If you live close to him go take a look and see if it excites you.
You should come away knowing the VALUE first hand.
I bet Jeff will put on a show with it.
If it happens I look forward to your review
I know I think about that subwoofer everyday.
WVchris
Edited by countryWV - 9/5/12 at 10:43am
post #3786 of 4725
I'm curently debating the Cap S2 to the Seaton Submersive HP. If I go with either I will only be able to afford a single as opposed to duals of a lesser sub like the HSU ULS-15.

I've got a call into Jeff with some questions, but, there is one I forgot to ask him:

Is the DSP Jeff uses with the S2 pre-set to match the amp to the drivers/enclosure by Jeff , or, is it something I can perform manual EQ with to suit my room?
post #3787 of 4725
There are no external controls (other than 'level' pot)... the DSP is set at the factory and not user adjustable.
post #3788 of 4725
Thanks for the response. Can anyone comment on the quality of the finish? From the looks of the photograph on the JTR forum it is pretty basic and far from attractive. Are their premium finishes available for the S2?
post #3789 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I already have one, thanks. And thanks for the CV option, but I'd prolly pass on it over a Crown unless I were to find out a little bit more about who's building them, how.
All a bit moot anyway as Jeff does NOT offer a passive S1 or S2.
James

Correct. I asked him about this back when the sealed designs were in the planning stages and he mentioned that it's a cabinet construction limitation. As I understood it at the time, the back opening for the amps cannot be easily sealed in a passive version, and asking the cabinet maker to do a custom design is a lot of extra work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

I'm curently debating the Cap S2 to the Seaton Submersive HP. If I go with either I will only be able to afford a single as opposed to duals of a lesser sub like the HSU ULS-15.
I've got a call into Jeff with some questions, but, there is one I forgot to ask him:
Is the DSP Jeff uses with the S2 pre-set to match the amp to the drivers/enclosure by Jeff , or, is it something I can perform manual EQ with to suit my room?

Apologies to the Submersive HP, but if you can afford it, the Captivator S2 will likely offer a significant boost in output compared to the SubM HP. Dual 18" vs. Dual 15", and the dual 18" have greater xmax, so much greater displacement. Plus, they have more power going to them to get that extra output. A single Captivator S is roughly the equal of the SubM HP in blind testing, so the S2 should have all the same +6dB.

As to the DSP, it's not defeatable on either the SubM or the S2, though the SubM does have two program settings, 19hz (program 1) and 15hz (program 2). This shouldn't worry you at all. You can still apply EQ after the fact, and this is actually a good thing (contrary to what CHT says).

Quote:
Originally Posted by errivera View Post

There are no external controls (other than 'level' pot)... the DSP is set at the factory and not user adjustable.

On the S2, this is correct, but that's not a bad thing. The factory-set DSP is a great feature, and doesn't impede using your own EQ in any way. I'm sure you know this firsthand, being an S2 owner, but I thought I'd clarify for others. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Thanks for the response. Can anyone comment on the quality of the finish? From the looks of the photograph on the JTR forum it is pretty basic and far from attractive. Are their premium finishes available for the S2?

I'd say it's much like a Duratex finish. It's lightly textured black and extremely durable - the finish is several coats and is very thick. My only minor gripes with it are that after a year, I can see some seams showing through it and it does scrape off onto my tile floor if the sub is moved at all.
post #3790 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Thanks for the response. Can anyone comment on the quality of the finish? From the looks of the photograph on the JTR forum it is pretty basic and far from attractive. Are their premium finishes available for the S2?

The standard finish on the Captivators is a industrial flat black type finish. It's very durable, but not the most attractive finish I've owned. I really liked how Mastermaybe's black oak turned out and if I were ordering again I would definitely go that route. I'd been considering a pair of Cap S2's, but just a bit out of my price range for now. I'd considering selling my Crown/Dual Ported Cap combo, but I'd likely still be out of pocket ~3k or so and I doubt the difference in output/extension would be worth the cost of admission.

On a related note - Does anyone local to the PA/NY/DE/NJ/MD/VA area have a Cap S2 they could bring to our GTG? I'd love to listen to one.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420544/ne-pa-ny-nj-de-md-va-gtg-take-two
Edited by Gorilla83 - 9/5/12 at 7:57am
post #3791 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

James
If that Crown amp is hard to get mabey you could sell it for more
than you paid and apply that towards a powered version Cap S2.
All other aspects aside that S2 seams to be a GREAT DEAL!!!
I imagine with Jeffs amp and DSP it is a force to be reconned with.
If you live close to him go take a look and see if it excites you.
You should come away knowing the VALUE first hand.
I bet Jeff will put on a show with it.
If it happens I look forward to your review
I know I think about that subwoofer everyday.
WVchris

Hi Chris:

I'm currently mulling over my options. And yes there's no doubt that ALL of JTR's products offer tremendous value and performance. But everyone (ok, 99.9% of us, anyway) has a budget. frown.gif

And seeing I'm really going to likely need (2) of whatever I go with down the road, $6,000 for two S2's is almost certainly too much for me...even if I were to sell my existing Cap and amplifier. Simply a reality for me.

And I live 8 minutes away from Jeff and have already met him...great guy with outstanding product, no doubt.

James
post #3792 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

The standard finish on the Captivators is a industrial flat black type finish. It's very durable, but not the most attractive finish I've owned. I really liked how Mastermaybe's black oak turned out and if I were ordering again I would definitely go that route. I'd been considering a pair of Cap S2's, but just a bit out of my price range for now. I'd considering selling my Crown/Dual Ported Cap combo, but I'd likely still be out of pocket ~3k or so and I doubt the difference in output/extension would be worth the cost of admission.
On a related note - Does anyone local to the PA/NY/DE/NJ/MD/VA area have a Cap S2 they could bring to our GTG? I'd love to listen to one.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420544/ne-pa-ny-nj-de-md-va-gtg-take-two


thanks for the compliment- the black oak is indeed and nice and a big +1 to TWO S2's: certainly outstanding performance and great, great, value, but $6,000 is $6,000...plus shipping for the vast majority. Lotta change for most folks, no doubt.


James
post #3793 of 4725
Moved my passive Caps to my newly created media room / theater. Using a Crown XLS5000, Denon 4311ci with Audyssey XT32, no external EQ yet, 20hz tune. Got the Crown in a storage closet area and triggered by a 20A remote relay so no fan noise is audible from the listening area. smile.gif I may experiment with the 15hz tune this weekend as well as my miniDSP if I can find the time to fab up some connectors for it. One thing I noticed after running Audyssey is that the subs sound a bit more stressed at higher volumes, likely due to the EQ'ing at lower frequencies combined with no HPF, haha. I noticed the subs blend perfectly with the mains now too. Sounds pretty awesome and definitely an improvement over my previous receiver. I will definitely need a HPF asap! Music sounds AWESOME though at any volume now. I do have the subs running a bit hot. eek.gif

capsfrontssetassmall20hztune.jpg
Edited by Gorilla83 - 9/7/12 at 7:49am
post #3794 of 4725
^^Nice chart.

My Cap 1k as a hum in the new apartment. But the strange thing is, it didn't hum the 2weeks of using it. But last night, playing Xbox for the first time, it started to hum. Does that make sense?
post #3795 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

^^Nice chart.
My Cap 1k as a hum in the new apartment. But the strange thing is, it didn't hum the 2weeks of using it. But last night, playing Xbox for the first time, it started to hum. Does that make sense?

Does the hum go away when using a cheater plug and/or when removing the RCA cable? If so, you've got a ground loop issue. Very common and fairly easily addressed.
post #3796 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Does the hum go away when using a cheater plug and/or when removing the RCA cable? If so, you've got a ground loop issue. Very common and fairly easily addressed.
Please tell me how to easily address this as I live with
cheater plugs and have just accepted that as the way it is.
Any help is appreciated
Thanks
WVchris
post #3797 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Does the hum go away when using a cheater plug and/or when removing the RCA cable? If so, you've got a ground loop issue. Very common and fairly easily addressed.
Please tell me how to easily address this as I live with
cheater plugs and have just accepted that as the way it is.
Any help is appreciated
Thanks
WVchris

I had a ground loop that developed over time. When I first setup my system, I didn't have any problems. I didn't change or add anything, but noticed an intermittent buzz. When I tried to fix that, I started getting a continuous ground loop hum. I fixed it with a simple wire from the phono ground screw on my avr to the screw on the power outlet cover plate. No more hum or buzz.

-mike
post #3798 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Does the hum go away when using a cheater plug and/or when removing the RCA cable? If so, you've got a ground loop issue. Very common and fairly easily addressed.
I had the cheater plug on it then took it off because it didnt hum. I will try that tonight. I also lowered the gain and turned up .5db and it's started get the "punch" back.
post #3799 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post

I had a ground loop that developed over time. When I first setup my system, I didn't have any problems. I didn't change or add anything, but noticed an intermittent buzz. When I tried to fix that, I started getting a continuous ground loop hum. I fixed it with a simple wire from the phono ground screw on my avr to the screw on the power outlet cover plate. No more hum or buzz.
-mike
.
Grounding the AVR is something I have not tried.
Makes good sense.
Thank you
WVChris
post #3800 of 4725
Damn! So much for the surprise.

But...I'm putting FOUR in each corner!


James
post #3801 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Wow, wasn't expecting this so soon. Is it safe to assume you will be upgrading? biggrin.gif
Orbit shifters or S2s? cool.gif

Ha ha, me neither. The timing has just worked out in some ways and I figure if I'm EVER going to make the jump, it would be hard to come up with a better time than the present.

As for plans: I am right now so hopelessly stuck between a DIY project consisting of TWO sealed TC LMS Ultras and an Orbit Shifter/S2 I cannot see straight. I've calculated any of the three as a virtual "can't lose" scenario, but all of them have me salivating for different reasons.

An exquisite problem to have though!

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/10/12 at 10:07am
post #3802 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Ha ha, me neither. The timing has just worked out in some ways and I figure if I'm EVER going to make the jump, it would be hard to come up with a better time than the present.
As for plans: I am right now so hopelessly stuck between a DIY project consisting of TWO sealed TC LMS Ultras and an Orbit Shifter/S2 I cannot see straight. I've calculated any of the three as a virtual "can't lose" scenario, but all of them has me salivating for different reasons.
An exquisite problem to have though!
James

Nice! Well, if you're after more output and you've got the room the OS would sure be the ticket. I'm not aware of any other commercial products that even come close in terms of output.

If it's extension you're after, the S2 and the Ultras would both be pretty awesome.

Pros:
Ultras - You could likely keep your existing Crown amp to power them, although maybe not to their fullest capabilities. You could build the enclosure to fit your room perfectly. The drivers appear to be bulletproof, just like the caps.
S2 - TWO cap drivers and a FOUR THOUSAND watt DSP amp. All the work is done, plug in and run Audyssey.

If you decide to go JTR I believe there is a frequent buyer discount that is cumulative? cool.gif

Man, I almost hope an S2 does not show up at our GTG in October. tongue.gif
post #3803 of 4725
^ Pretty much, but I'm really leaning OS more than ever now after taking a look at some in-room response graphs if it from RMK and others. That seems to be the crucial tipping point...out in free air is one thing, but the increased output of the OS IN-ROOM seems to really cut into that difference with the S2. Plus, you gain a ton more 20 and up and enjoy the increased efficiency and decreased distortion of the horn design (a bit assumed on my part).

I'll talk to Jeff at some point- perhaps I'm UNDERestimating the gains the S2 will see in room, but when I see 100+db output at 10hz with the OS, in room, it tends to complicate things! smile.gif

James
post #3804 of 4725
James, you may already know this but just to be sure -Jeff has said that:

1 OS = 2 Cap 2 sealed above 20hz

1 Cap 2 sealed = 2 OS below 20hz
post #3805 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

James, you may already know this but just to be sure -Jeff has said that:
1 OS = 2 Cap 2 sealed above 20hz
1 Cap 2 sealed = 2 OS below 20hz

Yep, but I believe those are off GP measurements. My question is: does an OS gain more ground down low once properly placed, in room?

I've read that horn designs receive increased output over what's typical for other designs, in room (which I'd guess is prolly why OS owners are seeing substantial 10db output, in room).

So if that's the case here and the OS cuts into that 6db deficit a bit more down low, it would be nice to know.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/10/12 at 11:05am
post #3806 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Yep, but I believe those are off GP measurements. My question is: does an OS gain more ground down low once properly placed, in room?
I've read that horn designs receive increased output over what's typical for other designs, in room (which I'd guess is prolly why OS owners are seeing substantial 10db output, in room).
So if that's the case here and the OS cuts into that 6db deficit a bit more down low, it would be nice to know.
James

The room will effect both subs equally. Either way, the differences will remain the same.
post #3807 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The room will effect both subs equally. Either way, the differences will remain the same.

That's true ... It really comes down to priorities and preference. Chasing the (mostly) unintended inaudible frequencies has many folks here really spun up (or down tongue.gif). It is often touted as the secret sauce for true HT audio nirvana ... to me it is just a pig in a poke ... smile.gif
post #3808 of 4725
Hmmm, I supposed I've missed something somewhere then as I was under the impression that the design of the horn was such that it was measurably more efficient at coupling its output to the room than that of traditional direct radiators.

Regardless, it would appear that with 103db 10hz GP output that it would likely hit absurd levels in the 10hz neighborhood, in-room.


James
post #3809 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Hmmm, I supposed I've missed something somewhere then as I was under the impression that the design of the horn was such that it was measurably more efficient at coupling its output to the room than that of traditional direct radiators.
Regardless, it would appear that with 103db 10hz GP output that it would likely hit absurd levels in the 10hz neighborhood, in-room.
James

Because that is not accurate.

Also, the low stuff is not unintended artifacts, they happen in real life all the time and many movies contain them. If you record real life effects you will get the full bandwidth, real life bandwidth, within your movie. If a mixer excludes them it is his opinion on what he wants but not what was truly on the recording. Whether one wants it all or not is up to the individual.

The question becomes what SPL is your goal here.
post #3810 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Because that is not accurate.
Also, the low stuff is not unintended artifacts, they happen in real life all the time and many movies contain them. If you record real life effects you will get the full bandwidth, real life bandwidth, within your movie. If a mixer excludes them it is his opinion on what he wants but not what was truly on the recording. Whether one wants it all or not is up to the individual.
The question becomes what SPL is your goal here.

Umm I hate to break this to you MK, but movies are not real life. tongue.gif;)
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