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JTR Captivator - Page 136

post #4051 of 4725
I recommend as one but only if they are on the same plane, mine are all in the front and all my speakers and subs are on the same plane.
post #4052 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

In a lot of the subwoofer forums it is recommended to EQ multiple subs as one. If you have stereo subs you can still EQ as one depending on what you're using to EQ. What does Jeff recommend for his Caps?

Yeah, I agree normally you would want to EQ them as one. But wouldn't you want to set the levels for each set before EQ. Carp is about to have 8 18" drivers and wanted them placed around his room in different locations. His levels, timing, and response is not going to be the same for all 8 of them. I would think phase could become an issue pretty fast if they are not all co-located. That's 12 feet of just drivers, all in one location. I would think he would want spread them out and at least EQ them as two.
post #4053 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Yeah, I agree normally you would want to EQ them as one. But wouldn't you want to set the levels for each set before EQ. Carp is about to have 8 18" drivers and wanted them placed around his room in different locations. His levels, timing, and response is not going to be the same for all 8 of them. I would think phase could become an issue pretty fast if they are not all co-located. That's 12 feet of just drivers, all in one location. I would think he would want spread them out and at least EQ them as two.

Yes, if I were to put subs all in different areas I would want to power each one differently but EQing depends on tastes. I don't care what the response is other than my seats. I would EQ once at the seats but everyone is different.
post #4054 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Yeah, I agree normally you would want to EQ them as one. But wouldn't you want to set the levels for each set before EQ. Carp is about to have 8 18" drivers and wanted them placed around his room in different locations. His levels, timing, and response is not going to be the same for all 8 of them. I would think phase could become an issue pretty fast if they are not all co-located. That's 12 feet of just drivers, all in one location. I would think he would want spread them out and at least EQ them as two.

Agreed. And regarding eight 18" drivers:


Which drivers if I may ask?
post #4055 of 4725
The SI's that were part of a group buy recently. They are being discussed here. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430438/stereo-integritys-new-ht-subwoofer/630
post #4056 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

The SI's that were part of a group buy recently. They are being discussed here. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430438/stereo-integritys-new-ht-subwoofer/630

Nice, very nice. Thanks.
post #4057 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Hey Archaea,

What are your feelings between the different Caps? Sealed vs ported OS and whatnot. I too prefer the sound signature of the Caps to all of other manufactures that I have heard thus far.

as I mentioned a few posts back -- Overall I've never felt I'm missing anything in sound quality with my captivators over any sub I've ever heard. I prefer the submersive hp ever so slightly for music, but prefer the JTR cap in a much larger way for movie use. When I heard the S1, S2, and Orbit Shifters --- now on multiple occasions - I've never regretted my decision to buy my captivators - and had I to do it all over again I would still buy the ported caps that I have now. I was just watching a movie scene last week where the air started really circulating in the room because of the ports and it still made me smile - 1.5 years into ownership. The captivators are especially tactile, in both sound, and air circulation, they have gobs of output - more than I could need in my room, and I truly don't feel I'm missing anything from any sub I've ever heard. (well except desertdome's infinite baffle setup with eight 15" driver mounted directly in his wooden floor which will rattle your teeth out and make the couch bounce across the room -- but that isn't an environment I can recreate in my current home.)

There was a 30 minute spell one time -- where I felt like perhaps there actually is something to the ULF frequencies below my caps port tune. It was at the gorilla83 meet where three submersives were compared to two captivators during the normal audition lineup. After the auditions - it was playtime. Mark suggested a ULF test on his submersives. The same Hulk cop car smash scene was played 2x's - one with a 16 or 18 hz (can't remember which one) HPF, and one without the HPF. Most people, including myself identified correctly which playback contained the subsonic frequencies. It was a slight effect of more tactile feel. Slight - like 10% more in my opinion. Obviously not heard -- just felt. We followed that demonstration with a demonstration of Bass I Love you with and without the HPF and nobody could tell the difference. Still I immediately felt a bit saddened because that was the first time I'd ever experienced a difference in ULF playback and I thought "dang - now I gotta buy sealed", even though I always seem to prefer the ported sound even with different vendors in the meets I've attended with high end equivalents of each -- CHT 18.2 vs. 18.1vs, Rythmik e15 vs. fv15hp, MFW-15 turbo vs. eD a7-450, JTR Captivator vs. Seaton Submersive, SVS PB12 or HSU VTF15H vs. Epik Empre, etc etc etc in each of these cases I preferred ported).

So I was a bit disturbed - but then I thought about it more. If the only difference was a slight bit more feel - and everybody there agreed that was the difference - - - well, we'd demoed both the pair of Caps and the triple Submersive setup at no holds bared levels of playback previously in the day. Pretty much every review's subjective comment said the two captivators felt more tactile. I absolutely feel the same way. As if to prove their ferocity - the captivators jacked up the alignment of the projector on a couple occasions during their demo, unscrewed and let fall a light bulb in the adjoining bathroom, and knocked down a bass trap in the front of the room (I guess it had absorbed all it could tongue.gif). The triple submersives did none of those things. So back up a couple lines --- If all I was gaining with ULF ability was a bit more tactile feel --- well I've already got that in spades. In fact two caps were more tactile than three submersive HPs (though I'll admit I did prefer the submersive HP's sound overall when it was three vs. two -- but that is $6600 vs. $3500 in triple subm vs. dual caps) However - 1 on 1 the cap remains my favorite total package sub. The only single sub I've ever heard that felt more tactile was the JTR Orbit Shifter, but truth -- in the couple times I've heard it, including the pair at my house --- i preferred the sound of what I know and love, the JTR ported Captivator. If I needed more output - which I don't (cause the orbit shifter breaks things) -- then I could just add more caps. So to me - it's got the sound quality I most love, a tactile feel that gives up nothing (short of something mounted into a wooden floor, or a 180 pound refrigerator sized box that actually physically destroys things), subs that move air like a themepark airjet, have a very cool aggressive look, and convenient handles for easy meet venturing! What's not to love?

Priced at $1500 per for passive - they'll do everything audible with more flair and power than the S2 at $3k, (only giving up headroom in the inaudible, subsonic frequencies to the S2) and the pair of caps for $3k will give you two locations, instead of a single located S2 for a similar price for room response smoothing. I'd personally absolutely buy two passive caps over a single S2 for the ~ $3k pricepoint.

I know you are a S2 fan. I don't blame you - they are incredible subs! For me -- my subjective sound, feel, and tactile preference is for a high quality ported sub, and the Captivator is the King of ported subs.
Edited by Archaea - 1/7/13 at 5:55pm
post #4058 of 4725
Wow, thanks for the very detailed information. I completely understand and mostly agree with your views. At this point your cap pros are one of my favorite subs and is one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the S2's. Truth be told I would also probably go with ported caps if it wasn't for their size. But at the same time I know when blinded I preferred the S1 over the pros so it's a win win for me. The only part that I disagree with is although you get two locations with 2 cap pros for 3k you don't get an amp. Although both subs are fantastic deals when compared to their competitors. Lol when comparing subs of the same elk I guess it's like asking what kid you love more.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain your personal experiences with these different subs. You have probably the most sub experience on this forum.
post #4059 of 4725
Absolutely go with what you liked most blind. Can't go wrong there!

~3K. The EP4000 amp can be had for $275 and a single amp will drive two captivators pretty well --- within several dB of their max. Heck at the blind meet I was running a Inuke DSP 3000, which is less powerful than the EP4000. Where you at carp's that night with Pennynike's visit where we put the caps up against the submersives for the whole night? I can't remember. That was really a fun evening.
post #4060 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

as I mentioned a few posts back -- Overall I've never felt I'm missing anything in sound quality with my captivators over any sub I've ever heard. I prefer the submersive hp ever so slightly for music, but prefer the JTR cap in a much larger way for movie use. When I heard the S1, S2, and Orbit Shifters --- now on multiple occasions - I've never regretted my decision to buy my captivators - and had I to do it all over again I would still buy the ported caps that I have now. I was just watching a movie scene last week where the air started really circulating in the room because of the ports and it still made me smile - 1.5 years into ownership. The captivators are especially tactile, in both sound, and air circulation, they have gobs of output - more than I could need in my room, and I truly don't feel I'm missing anything from any sub I've ever heard. (well except desertdome's infinite baffle setup with eight 15" driver mounted directly in his wooden floor which will rattle your teeth out and make the couch bounce across the room -- but that isn't an environment I can recreate in my current home.)
There was a 30 minute spell one time -- where I felt like perhaps there actually is something to the ULF frequencies below my caps port tune. It was at the gorilla83 meet where three submersives were compared to two captivators during the normal audition lineup. After the auditions - it was playtime. Mark suggested a ULF test on his submersives. The same Hulk cop car smash scene was played 2x's - one with a 16 or 18 hz (can't remember which one) HPF, and one without the HPF. Most people, including myself identified correctly which playback contained the subsonic frequencies. It was a slight effect of more tactile feel. Slight - like 10% more in my opinion. Obviously not heard -- just felt. We followed that demonstration with a demonstration of Bass I Love you with and without the HPF and nobody could tell the difference. Still I immediately felt a bit saddened because that was the first time I'd ever experienced a difference in ULF playback and I thought "dang - now I gotta buy sealed", even though I always seem to prefer the ported sound even with different vendors in the meets I've attended with high end equivalents of each -- CHT 18.2 vs. 18.1vs, Rythmik e15 vs. fv15hp, MFW-15 turbo vs. eD a7-450, JTR Captivator vs. Seaton Submersive, SVS PB12 or HSU VTF15H vs. Epik Empre, etc etc etc in each of these cases I preferred ported).
So I was a bit disturbed - but then I thought about it more. If the only difference was a slight bit more feel - and everybody there agreed that was the difference - - - well, we'd demoed both the pair of Caps and the triple Submersive setup at no holds bared levels of playback previously in the day. Pretty much every review's subjective comment said the two captivators felt more tactile. I absolutely feel the same way. As if to prove their ferocity - the captivators jacked up the alignment of the projector on a couple occasions during their demo, unscrewed and let fall a light bulb in the adjoining bathroom, and knocked down a bass trap in the front of the room (I guess it had absorbed all it could tongue.gif). The triple submersives did none of those things. So back up a couple lines --- If all I was gaining with ULF ability was a bit more tactile feel --- well I've already got that in spades. In fact two caps were more tactile than three submersive HPs (though I'll admit I did prefer the submersive HP's sound overall when it was three vs. two -- but that is $6600 vs. $3500 in triple subm vs. dual caps) However - 1 on 1 the cap remains my favorite total package sub. The only single sub I've ever heard that felt more tactile was the JTR Orbit Shifter, but truth -- in the couple times I've heard it, including the pair at my house --- i preferred the sound of what I know and love, the JTR ported Captivator. If I needed more output - which I don't (cause the orbit shifter breaks things) -- then I could just add more caps. So to me - it's got the sound quality I most love, the tactile feel of nothing (short of something mounted into a wooden floor, or a 180 pound refrigerator sized box that actually physically destroys things), and the caps move air like a themepark airjet, have a very cool aggressive look, and convenient handles for easy meet venturing! What's not to love?
Priced at $1500 per for passive - they'll do everything audible with more flair and power than the S2 at $3k, (only giving up headroom in the inaudible, subsonic frequencies to the S2) and the pair of caps for $3k will give you two locations, instead of a single located S2 for a similar price for room response smoothing. I'd personally absolutely buy two passive caps over a single S2 for the ~ $3k pricepoint.
I know you are a S2 fan. I don't blame you - they are incredible subs! For me -- my subjective sound, feel, and tactile preference is for a high quality ported sub, and the Captivator is the King of ported subs.[/quote/]

I had the chance to hear the ported caps when i auditioned the neosis and they did sound very tactile and very musical too and we were only running one. I'm still keeping my OS though just because I love knowing it can crack the drywall. Is that wrong? lol.
post #4061 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


as I mentioned a few posts back -- Overall I've never felt I'm missing anything in sound quality with my captivators over any sub I've ever heard. I prefer the submersive hp ever so slightly for music, but prefer the JTR cap in a much larger way for movie use. When I heard the S1, S2, and Orbit Shifters --- now on multiple occasions - I've never regretted my decision to buy my captivators - and had I to do it all over again I would still buy the ported caps that I have now. I was just watching a movie scene last week where the air started really circulating in the room because of the ports and it still made me smile - 1.5 years into ownership. The captivators are especially tactile, in both sound, and air circulation, they have gobs of output - more than I could need in my room, and I truly don't feel I'm missing anything from any sub I've ever heard. (well except desertdome's infinite baffle setup with eight 15" driver mounted directly in his wooden floor which will rattle your teeth out and make the couch bounce across the room -- but that isn't an environment I can recreate in my current home.)
There was a 30 minute spell one time -- where I felt like perhaps there actually is something to the ULF frequencies below my caps port tune. It was at the gorilla83 meet where three submersives were compared to two captivators during the normal audition lineup. After the auditions - it was playtime. Mark suggested a ULF test on his submersives. The same Hulk cop car smash scene was played 2x's - one with a 16 or 18 hz (can't remember which one) HPF, and one without the HPF. Most people, including myself identified correctly which playback contained the subsonic frequencies. It was a slight effect of more tactile feel. Slight - like 10% more in my opinion. Obviously not heard -- just felt. We followed that demonstration with a demonstration of Bass I Love you with and without the HPF and nobody could tell the difference. Still I immediately felt a bit saddened because that was the first time I'd ever experienced a difference in ULF playback and I thought "dang - now I gotta buy sealed", even though I always seem to prefer the ported sound even with different vendors in the meets I've attended with high end equivalents of each -- CHT 18.2 vs. 18.1vs, Rythmik e15 vs. fv15hp, MFW-15 turbo vs. eD a7-450, JTR Captivator vs. Seaton Submersive, SVS PB12 or HSU VTF15H vs. Epik Empre, etc etc etc in each of these cases I preferred ported).
So I was a bit disturbed - but then I thought about it more. If the only difference was a slight bit more feel - and everybody there agreed that was the difference - - - well, we'd demoed both the pair of Caps and the triple Submersive setup at no holds bared levels of playback previously in the day. Pretty much every review's subjective comment said the two captivators felt more tactile. I absolutely feel the same way. As if to prove their ferocity - the captivators jacked up the alignment of the projector on a couple occasions during their demo, unscrewed and let fall a light bulb in the adjoining bathroom, and knocked down a bass trap in the front of the room (I guess it had absorbed all it could tongue.gif). The triple submersives did none of those things. So back up a couple lines --- If all I was gaining with ULF ability was a bit more tactile feel --- well I've already got that in spades. In fact two caps were more tactile than three submersive HPs (though I'll admit I did prefer the submersive HP's sound overall when it was three vs. two -- but that is $6600 vs. $3500 in triple subm vs. dual caps) However - 1 on 1 the cap remains my favorite total package sub. The only single sub I've ever heard that felt more tactile was the JTR Orbit Shifter, but truth -- in the couple times I've heard it, including the pair at my house --- i preferred the sound of what I know and love, the JTR ported Captivator. If I needed more output - which I don't (cause the orbit shifter breaks things) -- then I could just add more caps. So to me - it's got the sound quality I most love, a tactile feel that gives up nothing (short of something mounted into a wooden floor, or a 180 pound refrigerator sized box that actually physically destroys things), subs that move air like a themepark airjet, have a very cool aggressive look, and convenient handles for easy meet venturing! What's not to love?
Priced at $1500 per for passive - they'll do everything audible with more flair and power than the S2 at $3k, (only giving up headroom in the inaudible, subsonic frequencies to the S2) and the pair of caps for $3k will give you two locations, instead of a single located S2 for a similar price for room response smoothing. I'd personally absolutely buy two passive caps over a single S2 for the ~ $3k pricepoint.
I know you are a S2 fan. I don't blame you - they are incredible subs! For me -- my subjective sound, feel, and tactile preference is for a high quality ported sub, and the Captivator is the King of ported subs.

It should be no wonder to anyone why the Caps shine at these GTG's. These GTG's are all about pushing the envelope from an output perspective. Above all other sound characteristics, what will always dominate in my mind is clean, undistorted sound (to at least 20hz) that you feel you can just keep turning up and the sound just gets better and more tactile. That has Captivator written all over it. (This is a huge compliment, BTW). In these types of demos, typically extension falls behind simply because there isn't enough output to keep up with the other frequencies at this output level. Having said that, nirvana in my mind would be clean, undistorted sound that is full bandwidth. Depending on room, even 3 submersives may be hard pressed to recreate that. MK has had both the Caps and multiple sealed, and prefers sealed because he has gobs of clean, undistorted output. In these GTGs, you can't just recreate that full bandwidth environment unless you are in a small room and someone decides to bring multiple (4 or greater) 18in sealed subs that are not amp limited, IMO.

 

Additionally, where the real world options start to weigh in is all about how loud you like to listen, and the makeup of your room. If you don't listen at reference, or do listen at reference but have a smaller type room, you may be able to achieve that same clean, undistorted sound (for your listening levels) from less expensive commercial subs; perhaps commercial subs that even extend deeper than the Cap. 

 

On the flip side, for those with a DIY option, ~$5K invested in a pair of caps could turn into a multiple sealed setup that give you the clean, undistorted sound that extend into the single digits. Again, this is highly dependent on your room and your preferred listening levels. Also, DIY is not an option for many.

 

The advantage to sealed setup, is that your road to full bandwidth, clean undistorted sound is just a matter of how big your wallet is, and how much room you have for subs; because you can just keep adding sealed subs to your system. With ported, you really become limited to its native port tune and additional multiples will never get you a full bandwidth system.

post #4062 of 4725
dominguez1 Thanks for the reply. I understand where you are coming from about how the Caps really shine when you push the envelope. That is one thing I can always count on whenever "play time" rolls around everything Jeff (JTR) makes always shines. But I will say that as lest for the blind competitions I have been to. During the testing periods the levels have always been kept in check. Like at Archaea's GTG if it were an all out SPL comp the Obit shifters would have decimated all! But when level matched it was actually pretty hard to tell the 3 JTRs that were there apart from each other. They each had there own sound but they were more the same then different. Now different brands did sound different.

For me I have always had ported subs in my theater. Ironically I've always had sealed subs in my cars. Once my theater is complete it will be fairly small and I do like my stuff pretty close to reference. I am more than capable to DIY a set of subs. I'm just not interested in it. Maybe down the road. But I think for my goals an S2 or two will be more than enough.
post #4063 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

But I think for my goals an S2 or two will be more than enough.

Not sure how big your room is, but the size sounds reasonable where two S2's would be amazing I'm sure!

 

IMO, the S2 is the commercial sealed king! smile.gif

post #4064 of 4725
The room should end up about 19 x 15 x 7.5 give or take a bit.
post #4065 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

The room should end up about 19 x 15 x 7.5 give or take a bit.

My room is about 19 by 13 (though it is open to the rest of the basement) and my S2 puts out a ton of clean bass....and I don't think I am pushing its limits at all. I have a second one coming in a couple of weeks as soon as Jeff has a chance to build it. I never thought my old Paradigm Sub 15 was a slouch but once you hear a sub like the S2 (or any other high quality sealed sub like the Submerssive) then its hard to go listen to a popular mass market sub. There are still times, after a month of owning the S2, where the sudden sheer impact of a scene makes me jump a little. biggrin.gif
post #4066 of 4725
Can someone give me a quick rundown on the major difference between the older passive cap vs the 2011 passive cap and newer models. My brother is finishing his basement but his budget would not be enough to purchase new, thought he might be able to pick up some used to get more bang for his buck. I see a couple listed on here and another site for sale.

TIA
post #4067 of 4725
The o
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

Can someone give me a quick rundown on the major difference between the older passive cap vs the 2011 passive cap and newer models. My brother is finishing his basement but his budget would not be enough to purchase new, thought he might be able to pick up some used to get more bang for his buck. I see a couple listed on here and another site for sale.

TIA
The older passive cap used a 12 inch driver with a passive radiator. The new one uses an 18 inch driver. I have not heard the older version, but I love my sealed Captivator S2. It is amazing.
post #4068 of 4725
S2 way out of budget for him. Old cap vs new performance difference, huge due to size? Anyone ever compared them or link to thread discussing them?
post #4069 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

S2 way out of budget for him. Old cap vs new performance difference, huge due to size? Anyone ever compared them or link to thread discussing them?

The older model caps 2010 were a 6th order band pass design utilizing a 12" sub driver and an 18" passive radiator? With some cabinet modifications the new 18" driver could be retrofit making the units more like the current models. The external cabinet is virtually the same as the new passive Cap. The internals are different due to the 12" driver that pushes the 18" passive radiator.

The new Captivator will play louder than the older model but I thought the old units sounded really good. If I were buying them I would have the units shipped to Jeff and have him do the retrofit of the new driver. That might make them less of a "deal" but then your friend would know it was done right.
post #4070 of 4725
G'day! New member from down under (first post not sure if this is where I should be posting redirect me if not). I just bought my first JTR Passive Captivator (2011 model 18 inch driver yeeeh haaa!) second hand after reading all about it in the forum. I am new to passive territory but wanted to dip my toe in the water after reading countless posts. I love bass and until now had been running dual active KSW-300 subwoofers from Klipsch (circa 1998 with my Klipsch system). I have old equipment (see below) but still like the sound it gives my home theatre setup (especially the speakers), however I wanted more bass. Sounds like I'm in for a real treat.

My question(s) are now that I have bought this monster:

I have a Yamaha RX-V 992 (two subwoofer outs) this is a fairly low powered AVR (75 watts per channel) but I am intending to purchase a Behringer ep4000 or INUKE DSP 3000 Pro amp to act as the power for the Cap (love that abbreviation). Would this be a bridge too far for this AVR? I will upgrade if necessary but as I said am happy with the current home theatre sound (movies but music not so much).

I have no experience with EQ, HPF etc and am trying to get my head around it all. I understand running my single Cap with the Behringer amp will be done in bridged mode exposing it to a greater amount of power (and risk?). Should I buy a less powerful amplifier to power Cap in this mode? Or is it better for me to have the power in reserve (headroom?) and learn how to setup EQ,HPF properly. My goal is to get the best out of the Cap so if I need to spend a bit more I will. Whats the best approach to EQ, HPF for someone who has never done it before? I have read the very useful post from ARCHAEA regarding Captivator set up and understand quality wiring/ connectors needed. Cap will be wired for 8ohm. I see the Behringer MIC 2200 gets mentioned a bit would this be a good unit to start with for EQ, HPF? This could be the beginning of a real obsession I think. Thanks.

I dont have HDMI abilities with this older gear but am not too fussed about picture quality at this stage.

L/R: Klipsch kg 5.5
C: Klipsch KV-3
Rear: Klipsch Tangent 100
Yamha RX-V 992
Toshiba DVD player
post #4071 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Welcome AJ,
Archaea is your guy as he is the resident Cap expert. If he doesn't respond here you should PM him with your questions.
post #4072 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ72 View Post

G'day! New member from down under...

Welcome AJ, and congrats on your purchase!

You've got the passive Cap, so you will definitely need a separate pro amp to power it. Your AVR should be fine, with it's RCA subwoofer outs. It won't do any of the powering of the sub, but it will send the signal to whatever amp you buy. The receiver's 75wpc will likely be enough for your mains so the Cap doesn't overpower it, but you'll have to level match everything to suit your tastes.

Neither amp you've indicated will damage your sub unless you experience severe clipping, and likely not even then! They just don't put out nearly enough power. Your sub can legitimately handle 4000W continuous program (movies & music, not sine waves / test tones) with a some port chuffing. You'll pretty much never hear chuffing with either of these two amps, though.

I personally wouldn't go with the MIC2200. I don't think it's capable enough for the task - you'll for sure want to upgrade to something more flexible/powerful down the road. The miniDSP 2x4 Balanced is not too much more money, but so much more flexible.

The NU3000DSP is about 25% more expensive than the EP4000 here in the states ($345 vs. 275 delivered), so I'd imagine the spread is similar down under. The NU3000DSP also puts out a little less power, though it does have the DSP built in (only goes to 20hz iirc), so you do get that and the ability to HPF + EQ.

With my 2011 Cap, I have experience with the combination of the EP4000 and a miniDSP 2x4 Balanced with 2.1 Advanced plugin. This is what I'd recommend. It's a little more expensive, but gives greater flexibility, a little more power, and options for you down the road, especially if you go sealed.

In either configuration, I'd highly recommend you get acquainted with REW and start using it to figure out room placement and to EQ properly. It's awesome, and with the DSP integration, it's pretty easy to get decent results. It's a HUGE upgrade over using just a SPL meter.

Good luck, and please do let us know what you buy and how it all works out! smile.gif
Edited by nube - 1/15/13 at 9:29am
post #4073 of 4725
I recommend the crown (goddangit... I can never remember the model number...) that Archaea uses, you will get quite a bit more output as compared to the Behringer. I'm sure Archaea will be along shortly to help you out, I used to have dual passive Captivators and used a Behringer ep4000 and it was great but I've heard first hand what the Crown can do and it's a noticeable difference.
post #4074 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I recommend the crown (goddangit... I can never remember the model number...) that Archaea uses, you will get quite a bit more output as compared to the Behringer. I'm sure Archaea will be along shortly to help you out, I used to have dual passive Captivators and used a Behringer ep4000 and it was great but I've heard first hand what the Crown can do and it's a noticeable difference.

Hey bud, who are you replying to? AJ, the new poster I was replying to, only has a single passive Cap, so I suspect that Crown XLS5000 will be bordering on too much power for him.
post #4075 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Hey bud, who are you replying to? AJ, the new poster I was replying to, only has a single passive Cap, so I suspect that Crown XLS5000 will be bordering on too much power for him.

Are you sure? For a long time I was running 1 Captivator with a ep4000 and I was still very amp limited with that setup - I could be wrong about using the Crown with one Cap though that's for sure.
post #4076 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Are you sure? For a long time I was running 1 Captivator with a ep4000 and I was still very amp limited with that setup - I could be wrong about using the Crown with one Cap though that's for sure.

3 dBs is not that far off and most drivers start to compress anyways at their limits. Still, I would rather compress the driver with too much power than not have enough and clip the amp.
post #4077 of 4725
Well, it's hard to say Carp, but I think the biggest thing is to consider that chuffing becomes an issue at higher drive levels. I suspect that's one of the reasons why Jeff changed the tuning to the single 17.5hz and dropped the power to 2400w.

With the XLS5000 powering duals, you'd get about the same output per sub as the EP4K can manage with one. Single bridged, the XLS5000 might not be enough to kill that beastly driver, but it's probably enough to induce chuffing and maybe some other bad noises.
post #4078 of 4725
AJ72,

Congrats on your purchase of a exceptional sub -- my personal favorite!

As to your questions!

The EP4000 is a nice match for the Captivator --- it won't take it to the bleeding edge, but it'll be plenty loud and you can't hurt the sub driver with that amp. It'll put out about 1800 watts at 8ohm. I don't think the EP4000 could hurt the captivator driver even in full short --- I know both my Inuke and EP4000 couldn't. I blew up one of my EP4000's powering the cap drivers at max output -- smoked the amp -- subs were fine. That said I had modded the EP4000 fan for quieter use and I don't think the amp was getting the airflow it needed --- so my bad. As the Inuke I've had it power cycle multiple times in heavy use, and the cap drivers have never made a bad noise on either amp.

The Crown XLS 5000 or the CV 5000 bridged to 8ohm puts out 3800 watts. You'd better start being careful with that much power. If you don't have the HPF in place it will soft bottom. It shouldn't hurt the driver, as Jeff designed a very solid driver that is protects itself by design, but I wouldn't intentionally continue to soft bottom the driver. An HPF and a CV-5000 amp or XLS-5000 amp is a good match, if not a bit overkill. I personally think about 2,500 to perhaps 3000 watts is just about ideal with these cap drivers for use with home theater and modern 15 to 20hz laden movie material. The driver can handle more power, but the ports will begin making a bit of noise once you head towards the 4,000 watt range with the lowest frequency subwoofer material like War of the Worlds or Hulk. If you were using these subwoofers for DJ music use - give them the full 4,000 and light up your auditorium. For home use - you don't need quite that much.

Sadly a single Inuke DSP 3000 doesn't put out much power at 8ohms - the brochure says it is ~1,200 watts at 8ohm bridged and if I was only running a single 8ohm captivator I'd probably go with a single EP4000 or EPX4000 instead.
I love the dsp on the Inuke, and compared to the amps here. For my pair of 2 ohm captivators I actually prefer the Inuke amp over the EP4000. It gives up a little power to the EP4000 but the DSP is so nice and can be utilized to make your frequency response pancake flat. In my situation I had the Inuke powering two captivator subs at 2ohm running around ~1000 watts each channel, as compared to one sub running ~1000 watts at 8 ohm that you'd experience on your setup. With one sub --- you'd better feed it a bit more juice.
Here's my comparison:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1375633/ep4000-vs-inuke-dsp-3000-w-2-jtr-captivators-and-an-omnimic-which-amp-is-better/0_20




I DO like the mic2200. I'm using it now - have used it since I bought the Crown XLS-5000. it's cheap and very functional. It has a nice analog HPF to use with the sub, is pro quality and so works with pro amps ensuring you won't limit dynamics or output, and if you daisey chain the channels it allows for 2 parametric EQs. In fact with the little idosyncracies I've seen on the minidsp - I'd personally choose the mic2200 over the minidsp for use with pro audio amps for myself or most people I know. Two parametric bands are usually sufficient to get you into the flat frequency response ballpark, but they won't be able to accomplish what 4 or 5 parametric EQ bands will do to reach the level of flatness in my avatar pic. The avatar pic FR capture was done with the INuke DSP, and required a few more PEQ bands (5 IIRC -- minor adjustments mostly). The biggest limitation with the minidsp is if using unbalanced signal (RCA style) it can't pass the voltage that many pro amps need to take them to wide open throttle - while even a typical receiver like an Onkyo passes quite a bit more voltage than the minidsp. We've experienced this first hand with a couple local KC guys, KCNitro07, and MrSmithers. Until they wired up their minidsp's to use the balanced (XLR) style connection they were severly output limited using the unbalanced RCA style connectors.

Also If you don't have a measuring device like REW or Omnimic you are shooting blind from the hip. If you are going to spend a couple grand on a subwoofer setup - buy a $300 omnimic to make sure it's optimally setup.
post #4079 of 4725
Great feedback. My Cap is officially on its way and will arrive Monday! Should I prepare the neighbours for what's ahead? Both sides of the fence are retirees so I may have to choose the time of day wisely to really crank it. Seriously appreciate all the great advice received and will update situation when I get closer to liftoff. Looking for amp I think I'll go with the Behringer EP4000 as they' re easy to come by here and looking for mic2200 and Omnimic. Can buy new but may wait and look at Ebay for a better deal. The sub is coming to me still wired in 2ohm. Have emailed Jeff about rewiring for 8ohm, he will take me through "step by step" this process. Is it difficult for somebody who has never done this before? Thanks again.
post #4080 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4spdnb View Post

Good evening all,

I have 2 captivator S2 subs in my basement. Prior to them, I had 2 Triad Platinum subs. Let me preface this by saying that I am an extremely busy individual right now, I am starting up my own A/V company and I don't have a ton of time spent at home playing with equipment, when I am not doing business stuff I have 3 kids under 5 years old to entertain.

I am wondering what DSP equipment you all are using. My basement isn't huge, 900 sq. ft, 6300 cu. ft. 2 S2's should EASILY do wonders down there, but the fact is, they don't. I have an Integra 80.3 preamp that I am using (audyssey XT32) and I have found that running Audyssey has given me bass that is not any better than I am used to. The spots that the subs are in aren't ideal, I can't have these big ole coffins where I want because my kids will beat up on them. I must be having some major cancellation issues, when I put the S2's right where my old subs where, I got bass that was very underwhelming. I did adjust the phase in my preamp, that helped a little, but not much.

I haven't been on here much lately, but I have read a little about the mini dsp products and the DCX2496. I like that the DCX2496 has all balanced in and out, I don't have to do any special adapters to make things work, so that is pretty slick. Is it safe to assume that I should go that route and measure my in room response? After my lackluster results with the S2's, I plugged my Triad Platinum's in and the did a great job, I am just looking for something that I won't have to upgrade or want to upgrade from for a long time.

Any help from people with more free time than I would be greatly appreciated.

Did you ever get your S2s setup correctly? And if so how do they compare to the TRIAD Plats? I have a single Plat and considering getting another or even maybe switching totally. In a comparison vs money, big improvement?
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