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JTR Captivator - Page 137

post #4081 of 4725
Well...... I've officially received THE CAP! This thing is huge, I mean huge! A friend of mine who plays in a (loud) band couldn't believe I have this in my house. Anyway I love it and I haven't even powered the thing up yet! A couple of questions I haven't been able to find out for myself regarding set up. I have bought some cable prior to CAP arriving as suggested by Archaea in his captivator set up link (30ft male speakon to male speakon 12 gauge, 2 core flexible, 2 X 2.5mm square cable, outer diameter 8mm). The only problem(?) is the CAP has binding posts (impressive they are too) but I have speakon connectors on cable. What is the best thing to do here? Should I remove the speakon connector at one end of cable and wire to left and right binding posts (using banana plugs)? Or should I take the CAP to somebody who can change binding posts to speakon. The objective is to do what will get the best out of
the CAP. I thought this would be the best place to ask. I will have a Behringer EP4000 to power the CAP. Thanks
post #4082 of 4725
Jeff, will put either style connector on the Cap, based on your preference. If not told maybe he defaults to binding posts. Good thing is speakon vs binding post won't make any difference in sound quality. Assuming you bought the speakon cable from seismicaudio then you can easily remove the speakon and just have 12 gauge red and black wires. At that point skip the banana plugs and just wire the wire directly into the captivator binding post. Use the speakons at the amp.

Your looking to have some fun when you get this thing powered up. Make sure you understand the DIP switch settings on the back of the EP4000 and have toggled them correctly for a single sub. Make sure and work with Jeff to get it wired to 8ohm so you can take advantage of the most power out of the EP4000 in bridged mode.

Also - did you see that wal-mart and amazon have the EP4000 for $275 new? At that price I wouldn't buy used.
post #4083 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

I had the chance to hear the ported caps when i auditioned the neosis and they did sound very tactile and very musical too and we were only running one. I'm still keeping my OS though just because I love knowing it can crack the drywall. Is that wrong? lol.

They are obviously both great subs but when asked his preference Jeff still says the OS. Having all of that output capability is nice even if isn't always utilized.

In regard to sound quality, that is more familiarity, the room and proper EQ rather than any specific audible differences in the subs IMHO. smile.gif
Edited by RMK! - 1/26/13 at 9:24am
post #4084 of 4725
post #4085 of 4725
Thread Starter 

That is very cool ...

It is astounding to me that you are getting kickback from the Sanway purchasers. I'd think that any reasonable commercial alternative to that ticking time bomb would be welcomed with open arms.
post #4086 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


That is very cool ...

It is astounding to me that you are getting kickback from the Sanway purchasers. I'd think that any reasonable commercial alternative to that ticking time bomb would be welcomed with open arms.

And all the people said Amen!

I personally wouldn't purchase a clone amp.
post #4087 of 4725
Hi guys I need some more advice. Rewiring my single CAP from 2ohm to 8ohm I laid speaker on its back then I took screws out surrounding 18inch driver but couldn't work out how to extract it out of speaker box (can't get fingers down side). I got worried that if I pull driver out I wont be able to get it back in easily so I put screws back in. If I do get driver out, to make a series connection what wire should I use (I have 30ft 12 gauge red/black) for jumper? I have rewiring instructions from Jeff but although I'd like to do it myself don't have the confidence to tackle it. Should I take the speaker to someone who knows what they're doing meaning (yikes!) transport? Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? I have seen some you tube demos on rewiring which are helpful but my main concern is removing/replacing driver and using any additional wire I cut myself.
post #4088 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

That is very cool ...

It is astounding to me that you are getting kickback from the Sanway purchasers. I'd think that any reasonable commercial alternative to that ticking time bomb would be welcomed with open arms.

Really wouldn't call it kick back considering the title of the thread... The clones offer a lot of REAL power for the dollar with a high risk unfortunately. I do have a working one and glad I took the risk because currently there just isn't anything that can power 2 Ultra 5400s easily like these amps...

With that said I'm actually quite interested in how these new Inuke amps turn out... Hopefully they put out pretty good power as they could certainly be big hits.
post #4089 of 4725
I think the Captivator is being under estimated because almost all the other subwoofers in shootouts have been powered and have the advantage of manufacture optimized amplification. The passive Captivator is at a huge disadvantage without the high quality, factory optimized, dsp controlled amplifier that the powered versions come with.
post #4090 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

I think the Captivator is being under estimated because almost all the other subwoofers in shootouts have been powered and have the advantage of manufacture optimized amplification. The passive Captivator is at a huge disadvantage without the high quality, factory optimized, dsp controlled amplifier that the powered versions come with.
I am glad you said that b/c thats what I have always thought but I did not know for sure till now.wink.gif The 2400 watt amp for an extra grand is a great deal and actually a 20% + discount over purchasing it direct with no DSP.
Thanks for your products
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 1/31/13 at 11:53am
post #4091 of 4725
Whoa Here we go! After a few attempts......... I finally got the driver out! What a beast! After all the umming and aaahhing turns out the CAP was wired in series anyway! I guess it pays to check just to be sure as I was told when I bought it it was wired for 2ohm as part of a dual setup. Anyway to borrow a line from that great movie Coming to America " I feel so good I feel like breakdancin!". I now only have two pieces missing from the puzzle, Behringer ep4000 amp and mic2200 which I am going to do my best to get tomorrow. These two items sell for a bit more in Australia but I'll be buying them anyway as I really want to get up and running now. Feels like I've got the sportscar in the garage and all I've got to do is pick up the keys. Can't wait. Will probably need a bit more help with setup. I won't have an omnimic is there any standard setting on the above products which would be a good place to start given I will be in the dark with regards to HPF etc. I think I will be able to work out bridged mode on the amp no problem. My room is rectangular 13ft wide X 28ft long with 8ft ceiling. The home theatre is at one end of the room and rear surrounds sit at about the half the length (14ft). Looking forward to posting some performance feedback!
post #4092 of 4725
I managed to get the Amplifier today so I've hooked up the CAP for its first official test yet. It's late here so I only gave it a mini crank but here is my feedback.

Equipment:

Yamaha RXV992 to Behringer EP4000 to Jtr Passive CAP (still waiting on Behringer MIC2200, no omnimic either)
Cables/Connections as per the Passive Captivator setup outlined by Archaea page 92 of this thread

Watched: Transformers Dark of The Moon about 4th chapter when deceptacon worms through buildings/earth (is this the same movie with bumblebee flip?).

Amplifier Performance: Had amp set up in bridged mode (6 and 7 on) through input/output 1 (clip limiter on, low cut filter 50Hz, low cut filter on). I have option of changing 50Hz to 30Hz on low cut filter should this increase or decrease response? Didn't run at extreme level probably about 3/4 volume on AVR that I would normally listen at. Had gain channel 1 at about 75 per cent (30-32) is it normal to be this high? Signal lights flickered on around the 15 per cent mark but came on with more regularity with increased gain (channel two came on a bit more at lower levels despite nothing being connected into it?). Hard to tell but feels like something missing at this stage. Looking for a few suggestions will the MIC2200 make an impact this an area I am unfamiliar with. Yes fan noise sounds like a vacuum cleaner but within cabinet and a few strategically placed items to block noise (hopefully allowing enough airflow still) seems to be okay. May not need to do fan mod.

Yamaha AVR: seemed to be okay if the signal lights flickering on at low level gains on Behringer amp are any indication. Does this indicate an adequate signal strength?

THE CAP: Not even breaking a sweat but still putting out some nice bass all the same. I feel there's a lot of upside to come given my first brief outing and once I get the details right will be a great addition. No doubt about that.

If anybody else could steer me a bit towards the art of perfecting this setup I would much appreciate it. Thanks.
post #4093 of 4725
Turn that low cut filter off. Ha you stripped everything out below 50 Hz. tongue.gif No wonder you thought something was missing (among possibly other setup issues). cool.gif

Let's get you straightened out!

For your particular config on the EP4000 - single 8ohm cap on bridged EP4000 (correct me if I'm wrong - you have a single input going to channel 1, and then bridged mono output wired to the two middle output terminals - labeled for bridge mono)

The left gain knob (channel 1) should only be used - put it to max attenuation (turn fully to the right). The right gain knob should be turned off (channel 2) so turn channel 2 to the most left position for bridged mono operation. (if you don't turn channel 2 down to min you risk signal cancellation due to internal phase inversion)

Your dip switches should mostly be to the right
1 Clip Limiter On - Right
2 Low Cut Filter 30hz - Right (50hz and 30hz are only options)
3 Low Cut Filter off - Right
4 Parallel inputs off (according to page 7 and 8 of the manual) - so LEFT cause you want stereo operation for mono bridged mode
5 Parallel inputs off (according to page 7 and 8 of the manual) - so LEFT cause you want stereo operation for mono bridged mode
6 Bridge Mono Mode On - Right
7 Bridge Mono Mode On - Right
8 Low Cut Filter off - Right
9 Low Cut Filter 30hz - Right (50hz and 30hz are only options)
10 Clip Limiter On - Right


I wouldn't use a low cut with the EP4000 on a CAP. You can't hurt the cap driver with an EP4000 amp - there isn't enough power, and if you use the 30hz low cut filter you are cutting (rolling off) everything below 30hz which means you are sacrificing 17.5hz to 30hz audio. No good. Once you get the MIC2200 you can use a HPF and set the High pass filter (HPF) at port tune to help eliminate distortion, and unnecessary driver workload below port tune.


With these changes your opinion of the Cap sub should really skyrocket!
Edited by Archaea - 2/3/13 at 6:55am
post #4094 of 4725
Have any of you guys measured THD with your caps? I never started measuring until I got my DIY eD 190v2 sealed system and never measured THD until I had the CHT stuff. So I never had the chance to measure a ported sub or THD on my DTS-10's. I measured it on my 4 F-20's but curious what you guys get at 10hz without HPFs? Be careful though and if THD gets over 10% stop. That is my limit.
post #4095 of 4725
can't measure my THD inside the house as my vibrating walls will contribute far more than the sub I'll wager. tongue.gif
post #4096 of 4725
But that is the point of measuring. You can see how THD you are getting no matter where it is coming from which can tell us about what we are listening to and what we like. If you measure and get 20%thd in your room then we know that all of your love for your caps mean you like higher THD or don't mind higher THD so if something is producing 5%thd it might not be as exciting to you. I would wager that you are not getting that high of THD anyways but it still can show our preferences.
post #4097 of 4725
THD specs should only be gathered outside in my opinion - especially if someone is going to make a purchasing decision on a unit based on such measurements. Cause the room may obviously effect the results. I hope the Caps do get professionally measured because I'd too wager the THD is very low. The drivers aren't even visibly moving at the volumes that most commercial/retail subwoofers are struggling to produce.

Problem with measuring in my room is - You ever heard a car that rattles during just regular day to day driving after you've had too many subwoofers in the vehicle for too long? that's my room after several subwoofer meets (including the pair of orbit shifters that cracked the tile grout upstairs) I'll attest - I don't like that sound. tongue.gif

If it's distortion I do like - then give me plenty. tongue.gif I do typically most like ported subs in the various price ranges, but looking at databass.com, ported subs often have low levels of distortion until at least the tuning point.

My personal favorite subs in generic $500 increments...
<$500 Jamo D7Sub
<$1000 HSU VTF-15H
<$1500 Rythmik FV15HP
<$2000 Passive JTR Captivator and amp
post #4098 of 4725
Well, if a room causes over 10%thd from bad noises then a clean sub would not matter, just get a blaster with high spl and cover the frequencies needed. I still say your room will be less than you think. I love to see how clean my overall sound is at the OP because it shows the effort put into not only the gear but the room as well. I have measured different sub systems THD and the effects of the movie experience do correlate. I wish I measured my DTS-10's back then just to compare. I happen to think that my current system is the best and guess what, it measured the cleanest and loudest so far. I would assume the same for the speakers too but I have only measured my current speakers. I think I may measure the 888LP for a comparison.
post #4099 of 4725
A few questions regarding amplification for dual caps. I am thinking of purchasing 2 pre 2011 captivators that according to seller are wired for 8 ohm. I currently have a cinepro 3k6-3 6 channel amp that I could bridge 2 of the 2 channel groups to mono and get 1100W @8ohm or 1300W @4ohm. Would the 1100W @8 ohms be enough to operate the older version caps? How about a Crest CC4000 in stereo at 800W @8 ohms - would this be a viable alternative? Or can I wire the caps for 4 ohms which would get me more output from the Crest? I am pretty new to all this so any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Edited by HTPCat - 2/3/13 at 7:42pm
post #4100 of 4725
HTPCat,

I don't have any experience with the older caps - so I can't help you there. Jeff of JTR Speakers would be a good contact, or maybe one of the other guys can lend some advice.
post #4101 of 4725
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

A few questions regarding amplification for dual caps. I am thinking of purchasing 2 pre 2011 captivators that according to seller are wired for 8 ohm. I currently have a cinepro 3k6-3 6 channel amp that I could bridge 2 of the 2 channel groups to mono and get 1100W @8ohm or 1300W @4ohm. Would the 1100W @8 ohms be enough to operate the older version caps? How about a Crest CC4000 in stereo at 800W @8 ohms - would this be a viable alternative? Or can I wire the caps for 4 ohms which would get me more output from the Crest? I am pretty new to all this so any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Are these the bandpass design with the 18" passive radiator and 12" driver or the newer version with the 18" sub driver?
post #4102 of 4725
Wow! Sure made a difference those adjustments on the EP4000. Watched Iron Man and had huge impact right away. Bass is now large/full a bit boomy in parts, not tight as yet but there is a lot of material to work with. Hard to describe but bass doesn't quite feel integrated at this stage, lacks crispness that Im used to hearing from my old sub even though its a relative lightweight compared to the CAP. As you can tell from my debacle with initial EP4000 setup I am very wet behind the ears but enjoying learning as I go. I feel like I've got the Rock of Gibraltar in my lounge room and It needs some fine chiseling to bring out the detail. Will the Behringer MIC2200 achieve this? It arrives on Friday so I guess well see. Thanks in particular to Archaea for your invaluable advice.
post #4103 of 4725
Easiest thing to do is rerun audyssey or whatever your receiver calibration tool is to ensure calibration and level matching is setup correctly. What AVR do you have?


If you've got your sub calibrated to correct spl levels in regards to the mains using the AVR test tones and you have a boomy or peaky fr then then youll need to pick up a frequency response room analyzer to learn what your frequency response is doing. Your sub may be in a bad spot and placement need to be optimized



REW is free and will work in a pinch with an audyssey Mic if you aren't overly concerned with accuracy. That is a ghetto rig but it will at least show you a major problem. To do it right you need a calibrated mic with REW.

I would recommend an omnimic personally, but at $300, try rerunning the AVR calibration first. Another package option is the xtz room analyzer.


Without some sort of frequency response measuring tool though you will only be running the Mic 2200 as a HPF because any parametric EQ adjustment will only be a guess.
Edited by Archaea - 2/4/13 at 5:44am
post #4104 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Are these the bandpass design with the 18" passive radiator and 12" driver or the newer version with the 18" sub driver?
Yes they are the bandpass design with the 18" passive radiator and 12" driver.
post #4105 of 4725
Delete
Edited by tbraden32 - 2/4/13 at 10:16am
post #4106 of 4725
Personally I think you could do more with a BFD instead of that mic2200....or better yet an inuke3000dsp for a cleaner setup...but then I love to tinker and fiddling with parametric eqs isn't for everyone. Rew is nice but a lot can be learned with test tones and a radio shack db meter with enough patience.
post #4107 of 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Easiest thing to do is rerun audyssey or whatever your receiver calibration tool is to ensure calibration and level matching is setup correctly. What AVR do you have?


If you've got your sub calibrated to correct spl levels in regards to the mains using the AVR test tones and you have a boomy or peaky fr then then youll need to pick up a frequency response room analyzer to learn what your frequency response is doing. Your sub may be in a bad spot and placement need to be optimized



REW is free and will work in a pinch with an audyssey Mic if you aren't overly concerned with accuracy. That is a ghetto rig but it will at least show you a major problem. To do it right you need a calibrated mic with REW.

I would recommend an omnimic personally, but at $300, try rerunning the AVR calibration first. Another package option is the xtz room analyzer.


Without some sort of frequency response measuring tool though you will only be running the Mic 2200 as a HPF because any parametric EQ adjustment will only be a guess.
post #4108 of 4725
Amazing! Feels like full throttle now and then some! I'm using my AVR (Yamaha RXV992) for the first time in ages and I'd forgotten to calibrate it properly with the CAP. When you mentioned (Archaea) to look at this I didn't even think my unit had calibration facility as I bought it way back in 1998. So I decided to find the operating manual (lost in one of the many house moves years ago along with the learning remote) on the net and realized that it did have a function that changed the setting on speaker sizing. I always ran my mains and rears as "large" on this setting because they are large (not bookshelf) floor standing speakers. Well when I read the reason for choosing the setting I got a nice surprise. Choosing "small" feeds all the below 90hz signal to the subwoofer outs. I'm sure some of you knew this years ago but I didn't as Im a bit of a hack when it comes to this stuff. Mind you it's not because I'm an antiquated old git (not yet anyway).
So enough rambling.......... I now feel like I've unleashed the full power of this monster and I'm hugely impressed. There is so much more weight/depth/life to the movie when the CAP is involved. Yes I had some nice experience in the past with my other dual subs but this is now major excitement. I only listened at a moderate level and the rumble,shake,rattle, pulse of Iron Man when he first walks out in the suit was awesome. I never once felt anywhere near the edge of the CAP's limit. In the past I could occasionally hear my dual Klipsch KSW 300's struggle just a little bit when listening at loud volumes but this was just as loud and now it has clarity, detail, punch and no boominess at all. Can't believe the difference changing those speaker settings has made (thanks again Archaea). I would say if I was running at 70 per cent expectation before these changes I'm probably now about 98 per cent such is the increase in overall performance. The only minor thing now to work on as I see it (I'm sure there's other things I don't know about) is the voices during film. I've only watched a couple of demos so maybe it's just these films but during Iron man and Transformers Dark of The Moon the characters voices seem to have a lot more depth and bass. I would prefer if I could get a slightly cleaner sound in this area. But this is really a minor point I'm illustrating here and would go a long way to achieving that last two or so per cent of performance. I am absolutely loving this sub and still haven't explored all it has to offer (can't wait to hear some music on it!). Has anybody listened to the version of "Intergalactic" on "Beastie Boys Anthology" DVD using 5.1 Dolby Digital mode? I've always thought the start of that clip with the robot landing to be quite awesome on my old subs. Can't wait to put the CAP to the test on that. My mic2200 arrives tomorrow and I guess I'll try and set it up as suggested in the above thread. Another very happy to sing the praises of this wonderful sub.
post #4109 of 4725
Setting on the speakers will do that. I have bookshelf speakers and sometimes I run them "large" because the baby or wife is sleeping. The sub doesn't even come on at all. It's night and day. Glad that you were able to get the sub to work properly. It's like Christmas all over again. Which Cap do you have?

My brother-in-law just brought a 10" polk audio sub. I helped him set it up and he didn't believe what a difference a sub makes. He never had a sub before.
post #4110 of 4725
I'm running the JTR Captivator which was released late in 2010 with the 18inch driver. With this new addition to my setup I'm pleasantly surprised at how well it has blended in to existing system despite being over 15 years old. Sound quality is still as good as the first day I bought it and (touch wood) never had any issues with reliability. I'm planning to give it a real workout tomorrow during the day when everybody's out! There goes the neighbourhood!
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