JTR Captivator - Page 143

Holy crap, +18? My AVR is running at -3.5db in order for me to be at 80db on my Yamaha. I'm not sure if this is even apples to apples, but I'm interested to find out.

I run my caps at neutral gain on Mic2200 and -6dB on onkyo tx nr-1007. This puts the JTR cap pair at about 6-8dB hot. Depending on ave voltage output you may have a problem. I'm assuming your pro amp gains are maxed out?

The s convert sounds like a good next step.

Isn't the gain on the AVR only half the story. Wouldn't we also need to know wheret he volume knob is on the amp. For example my JTR S2 are at about 25% on thevolume knob and about 0 on the gain on my pre/pro. If I moved the volume knob to 50% on the sub, I am sure I would have to run them way lower on my pre/pro or else they would run way too hot.

Yes the pro amp gains are maxed out. Samson S Convert arrives today, hopefully this will address the issue. Thanks for the feedback guys seems like my gut feeling was right, shouldn't require so much compensation. I've tried everything to try and see why this is including putting my old AVR back in to system and much A/B testing, different power points, plugging in to wall only. Nothing changes. As soon as I run the new power amplifier (Elektra 7) and use pre outs (from either my old AVR or new Preamp) for mains, centre and rears it's like a vacuum for the CAP bass signal. At this stage I think the Elektra 7 is causing the issue as there's no problem when it's not used. I really hope the Samson does the job because the sound I have now is incredible with the pre (Rotel) and power (Elektra) separate setup. Just got to find that missing bass! The Elektra 7 is a 7 channel amplifier that has about 1400 watts or 200 watts/channel. Not sure if this means anything but just thought I'd mention it.

I just thought of something. Maybe it is not a setting, but instead you are maxing out your wiring or circuit. Maybe when your power amplifier is going, the amp for your cap can't draw enough current. This is probably not the case, because the power draw would be intermittent, not constant, like what you are experiencing. Maybe someone else can chime in and tell me that I am on the wrong track.

Okay so I've now had the Samson S Convert in line to boost bass signal. In short it works. First the good, I'm now back to where I want it to be! No gain on preamp necessary or MIC2200. The CAP is really on song again and sound is now giving the tactile sensation which it wasn't before. That slam feeling is back, impact is felt and overall balance is excellent. When I ran the CAP before without the S Convert to boost signal quality of the bass sound was definitely inferior. Although it was possible to generate a lot of noise it never made me smile like it does now. Having to run at +18dB didn't feel right and didn't sound right. Okay so that's the good. There is a slight cost for this boost of signal and it is a minor one for me. There is a very slight hum now which is only noticeable when I put my ear up to the CAP. Not ideal but after reading a lot about this subject It's not unexpected. It certainly doesn't bother me but if I can find a way to eliminate it altogether I will. It's a small price to pay for the benefits of the Samson far outweigh the negatives. It's awesome again!

Wondering if you guys could help me out. I have an option to buy a Seaton Submersive Sub. I've been looking for used Passive JTR Caps to match mine but without any luck as there rare as hens teeth here (Australia). My question is would this be a match made in heaven or a big incompatible mess? Does anybody have any experience with this combo?

I have heard of people that have been able to dial in a sealed sub with a ported sub but it is not easy to do. What will happen is right around tuning of the ported sub, in this case around 20 hz for the Cap, you will have issues with cancellation when you add a sealed sub because of phase issues.

This means you will have a lot LESS output in that freq range, not more.

If you have measuring software (omnimic, REW, etc.) to see what's going on and then something to tweak the subs like a minidsp then you would have a better chance of figuring out how to dial them in together but I've heard it's not easy.

If you have 2 sub outs (true sub outs with separate delay settings for each sub) then maybe you could get away with not having to get a minidsp or something else to adjust sub distances separately.

Also (and I'm not sure about this just guessing) I think that even if you dialed them in at your primary listening position you could still have cancellations in other areas of the room. Like I said, not sure about that hopefully others can chime in on that.

All that said I'd still be tempted to try it out!!
Edited by carp - 4/4/13 at 5:43am

Does the same go for mixing ported speakers with sealed subs and vice versa?

I have wondered this myself. It could be that's what causes issues sometimes around the crossover region if the crossover is close to the tuning of ported speakers and you have a sealed sub. I think that's why it's better to crossover well above tuning for the ported speakers so it's not an issue.

I do know that you don't even have to worry about crossing over sealed speakers.

BTW, both Caps and Submersives are incredible subs.

That is an interesting thought, although the type of sub should not matter, since the issue would be the fact that there could be some cancelation around the tuning frequency of the speaker and having a ported sub would do nothing to alleviate it. Like carp said, having the crossover set above the tuning frequency of the speaker should avoid this... if it is a real issue.

For that matter, mixing ported subs with different tuning frequencies might in theory, cause similar cancelation issues.

when I went from sealedT12lp to vented Noesis I did not see any FR issues even when corssing near the F3 of 60hz. In fact that is where I ended up getting the best FR and waterfall. Don't know all the reasons why, just an observation in my set up. BTW subs are 3 sealed and horn design.

I wonder if the phase issues are not as big a deal at 60 hz as they are at 20 hz, or if this is more of a problem in theory than in practice.

That's a good point, I've crossed mine over low too with now issues around the crossover - maybe there were issues in other seats though, I only measured mine.

Thanks for feedback re:Submersive. Seeing how it's the CAP I love I can't see the two working together as there are too many variables. The Submersive HP version is not available in Australia due to 240volt power source. The Submersive for sale here is powered by 1000 Watt amp. Anyway enough about that cross threading interloper! Ive decided to stick with what I already know that being its another CAP or nothing at this stage. Any suggestions where I could find a used Passive CAP in the States who'd be willing to ship to Australia? Is this a bridge too far unless I go new through Jeff? Was trying to keep the cost down so used would be preferrable at this stage. I know this is not a for sale thread but if I could get some advice on where to look would be much appreciated. Not in a desperate hurry either. Thanks.

3 is better than 2

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1447972/jtr-captivator-2-passive-price-lowered-now-accepting-offers

I have newer model with 18 inch driver. Does anybody know how the older Passive radiator version would work with the newer model? How different is the performance between the older version and newer version?

I don't know the answer to that question, but the older ones will accept the new 18" driver which you can buy from Jeff.

Plus the new woofer is $$$ - I don't want to speak for jeff but you just get a better deal buying new.

I am considering a Chase VS 18.1 for my second sub.

Thanks for advice guys. Will be going through Jeff direct for next CAP. I have just received Behringer omnimic ecm8000 (uncalibrated). I've also got radioshack spl meter. Im really serious about getting the parametric EQ sorted on my CAP and have been reading REW introduction. I read that you need a sound card for this. Is my Behringer mic2200 anything to do with this sound card? Do I need to buy a sound card also? Really enjoying the challenge of getting this right so I get the best out of this wonderful sub which I'm already loving. I don't know where to start with using the equipment I've got (omnimic, calibrating omimic) and using making sense of REW (will be reading more on it). I'm sure it's been asked before but if somebody could direct me to any relevant information or give any advice about this topic would be much appreciated. Flight of the Phoenix plane crash is insane on the CAP as I found out for the first time this evening by the way!

There are a lot of REW threads, especially over at Home Theater Shack . com where they can probably get you up and running faster than we. When omnimic is referred to around here - we are generally speaking about this product - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=390-792 I sort of grimaced when I saw Behringer sells that Omni directional mic and I hope you understood what you were buying. REW is a very powerful free tool and it's a good tool, but it's more complicated than Dayton audio's omnimic - which is plug in play - no spl meter needed, no sound card needed, no calibrated mic required - it includes all that. I'm glad you are working on smoothing out your response through EQ. It can only get better from here!

Considering buying a passive captivator, could someone tell me what the difference is between the passive cap 1000 & passive cap 2400? Have an amp that is capable of 1300W @4ohm bridged. Would this be enough power to drive either of these subs in a 14' X 14' unsealed room?

Cap 1000 = 20mm excursion
Cap 2400 = 30mm excursion (50% more excursion capability) greater power handling.

Jeff says they sound pretty much identical - just the Cap 2400 gets louder

Pennynike1 heard the cap 1000 at jeff's shop along with some of the other offerings by JTR. Pennynike1 said that his fav of the day was the cap 1000 - if only because it was kept to a reasonable volume more than the orbit shifter and other subs which were pounding him into oblivion in Jeff's smaller demo room. That said - PennyNike1 probably got everything he asked for - because he himself can handle - and asks for a lot of bass.

Jeff has a tendency to setup his demo sessions to look like this:

Always loved that picture! I don't typically listen to music much greater than -10db and movie's -15db so I am thinking the cap 1000 will be a wonderful fit and eventually I will get a second and it will be even better .

I have a cap 1000 in the same size unsealed room as you and it's more than what I need. The plate amp I have is dayton sa1000. I think the ones hes selling now is Speaker Power which is a much better amp but also double the price. I actually think the amp cost more than the sub itself. The sub has incredible punch bass. One would mistake it for a sealed sub. I play Battlefield3 and it sounds amazing. Gun fire never sounded so good. Anyway, you would be very happy with a cap 1k, but two would make an even better experience.

Thanks, that is what I wanted to hear and am now convinced that the cap 1000 is my best option given my budget constraints. If I could afford it I would get the S2 and be done, but not in the budget at the moment:rolleyes:

Thanks Archaea. I've only just bought the mic8000 and stand so I haven't even taken out of box and should be able to get a refund. No problem. I've just ordered the Dayton omnimic V2 and guess what.... Comes with a free stand! Ive just put the feelers out for another Cap through Jeff. In the words of Mike Goldberg "Here We Go"!

Ok JTR owners, hers my story, i had 2 empires, recently sold 1, now i just recieved my PSA XS-30 today, while it a little better it was not what i was looking for, i need more bass, my room is 13 x 15, i sit around 10 feet away from my sub, so i was thinking about getting either a seaton submersive, or a captiver 1000, any thoughts? And also does JTR charge for shipping? Thanks a bunch.

Josh, do you have the XS30 set up properly? My room is just a little bigger then your and I have dual XS30's, the theater is in the basement and they absolutely have no problem pressurizing my room. You can feel the floor shacking in my master bedroom which is two floors up!