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Did I ask too much of my PC?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
So I have a Q6600 2.4 quad core, 2 gb of 800 mhz ram, 250 gb os drive, 500 gb dvr drive, built in sound card. Two HD pci tuners.

So I was recording two separate shows. The kids were watching netflix on the main PC (the one in question) and I was trying to watch a recorded show from the HTPC streamed via a gigabit wired network to a media extender and the xtender froze and the netflix froze. I am wondering if the recording really did anything at all and it is just a internet streaming issue and an extender streming thing.

Right now I have the HTPC and the extender both plugged into a gb switch which is then plugged into a router which is plugged into a cable modem..

Would I be able to solve this issue by getting a NIC and putting it into the HTPC and plugging the media extnder directly into it?
post #2 of 25
Specs look OK to me.

Time to do some troubleshooting yourself starting with cpu usage, physical mem available etc.

Hooking up extender directly shouldn't matter.
post #3 of 25
That definitely wouldn't saturate a gigabit wired network, likely something going on with your HTPC hardware or software as MrBobb said. Try running a stress test on the HTPC and see if it causes errors.
post #4 of 25
i have watched a watched a 1080.mkv while recording two shows with no problem on a core2 duo with 2g or ram.

im thinking the netflix video is the problem.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hmmm. I guess I will haveto take a look. Although, my HTPC has come upon it's one year aniversery and I usually do a full wipe and reinstall of the OS annually to keep things fresh. Maybe the best way to tidy up this issue. Also have 4 gb of 1066 ram that has been waiting to go into my PC since february.
post #6 of 25
I believe the problem is caused by main PC using its build in NIC trying to concurently download from Netflix and upload the program being sent to the extender through the switch. And if this is the case then separatly connecting the extender to the PC with a NIC should resolve the conflict.
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I believe the problem is caused by main PC using its build in NIC trying to concurently download from Netflix and upload the program being sent to the extender through the switch.

HUH?

A ethernet interface *is* a share medium, it's SUPPOSE to be able to handle multiple connections simultaneously, as long as the total bandwidth is not saturated as already discussed.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well, but that was what I was kind of thinking. Because each work fine independently. And that is what it seems like. I don;t know squat about whther it is supposed to be saturated or not.
post #9 of 25
Hi there

> So I was recording two separate shows.

HD or SD content? CBS or ABC?
The amount of recorded data varies considerably between these sources, with CBS on top at about 7 gigabytes per hour.
Is the media drive set up for large cluster size (i.e. instead of the default 4 KB cluster size, you formated the drive for something like 32 or 64 KB)?

> watching netflix
> watch a recorded show

So that's 4 processes (plus whatever the OS and two users have in the background) generating a steady stream of I/O operations.
You may have reached an I/O bandwidth limit in the PC. Or one (or more) of the application programs may not have been able to gracefully deal with the unavailability of some resource (i.e. it has a bug).

I/O bandwidth in PC is rarely discussed, especially since Intel pushes multi-processors, which only improves computational bandwidth. Analysis of I/O is difficult because the hardware is always specified for the (raw) data transfer speed (on the wire), whereas the real data throughput has to account for protocol handshakes, software overhead, competing transfers and who knows what else.


> Would I be able to solve this issue by getting a NIC and putting it into the
> HTPC and plugging the media extnder directly into it?

Not likely.
The netflix operation is essentially an input transfer, and playback using the extender is essentially an output transfer. If the NIC is properly setup for full duplex operation, then another NIC should not help. (But if you already have a NIC and crossover cable and know how to setup a static IP address, then spend 15 minutes experimenting. I have an older Asus mobo that has an integrated Ethernet port that reportedly tends to choke under heavy gigabit load, so a different NIC might have a positive effect.)

Regards
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphyne View Post

I don;t know squat about whther it is supposed to be saturated or not.

At this point, I believe 3 of us say YOU GOT ENOUGH NETWORK BANDWIDTH to handle what u posted.

Now if u have home-made cables and ur getting lots of noise on the LAN.... Do you know how to PING? But this is not likely your prob, from experience.
post #11 of 25
There is no question about haveing enough bandwidth available.
However there appears to be a conflict in trying to maintain full duplex communications with two other systems concurrently in either the PC or the switch.
The content sent to the extender is being receipted for as is the content received from Netflix.
Since only incoming an content buffer or incomng receipt can occur at a time and only one outgoing content buffer or receipt can be sent over one wire at a time a conflict is occuring.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Wow. That's a lot of fandy talk all at once. This'll take me a day or two to digest.

BUT, now that I think about it, my network connection seems to be acting a little flaky regardless of use.

I will look into it and report back.
post #13 of 25
Do not ask how much your HTPC can do for you, but how much you can do for your HTPC.

Why is this actually for the most part true. Too many folks do understand how much work an HTPC can be.

sound like you have yours functioning fine though and it is just a resource issue.

Area I would look into first:
  • Are there any resources running in the background.
  • Have you made, or has Windows installed, any driver updates lately
  • Are you sure it isn't your network? If they are connect wirelessly, are the getting a good connection or is there interference? Could someone be using your bandwidth?
  • Run the Task manager in the monitor mode and see how the CPU/memory spikes are?
  • Have you defragged your hard drive and/or is it a problem with your virtual memory settings?
post #14 of 25
Which OS are you using? If you're using Vista, I would recommend upgrading to 4GB of RAM. I would imagine the network has caused the error over the PC, as I have a Q6600 + 4GB, but with more high end gaming parts (my old gaming machine), and it is currently at stock speed (2.4ghz). The CPU can definitely handle a lot with ease. I would try to replicate the issue and monitor your computer stats. Check temps too (what case do you hae?)
post #15 of 25
It may also be the NIC just acting up. You can try to roll back to an older driver. I've got a crappy Realtek RTL8211C on mine (Zotac IONITX-D-E) and the latest Windows update seemed to have borked it. I ended up disabling TCP/IP checksum offload which seems to have solved the problem.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
LEt's see:

- I THINK my hard drives are automatically set to defrag but have never followed up on it.

- I am wired. No wireless.

- I am running Vista home premium 32bit, 2 gb of 800mhz ram. While I have 4 gb of 1066 mhz ram sitting in my garage, waiting to be installed since february.

- I am using a thermaltake tenor case BUT it has an Onkyo 702 receiver sitting on top of it with both of then sitting inside a corner tv stand with the doors closed.

Although I have CPUz and speedfan fan telling me that my temps are within a good range.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

There is no question about haveing enough bandwidth available.
However there appears to be a conflict in trying to maintain full duplex communications with two other systems concurrently in either the PC or the switch.
The content sent to the extender is being receipted for as is the content received from Netflix.
Since only incoming an content buffer or incomng receipt can occur at a time and only one outgoing content buffer or receipt can be sent over one wire at a time a conflict is occuring.

Hi there

Computers have software called an operating system (which includes device drivers and protocol stack) to manage resources and resolve contentions. That's basic CompSci 101.

Regards
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphyne View Post

- I am using a thermaltake tenor case BUT it has an Onkyo 702 receiver sitting on top of it with both of then sitting inside a corner tv stand with the doors closed.


Hi there

Given this new info, overheating is the most likely culprit.
The symptom of "freezing" is a typical consequence of enclosing hot electronics. If it was a resource issue, then there would also have to be a bug somewhere in the code to cause the hangs, rather than just skipping and studdering.

Regards
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

Hi there

Given this new info, overheating is the most likely culprit.
The symptom of "freezing" is a typical consequence of enclosing hot electronics. If it was a resource issue, then there would also have to be a bug somewhere in the code to cause the hangs, rather than just skipping and studdering.

Regards

Even though it still continued to successfully record two HD shows in their entirety long after the freeze?
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

Given this new info, overheating is the most likely culprit.

But OP says his sensors show OK temperature.

Another equipment on top would be bad if it blocks a top exhaust, but we don't know that, and most PC cases exhaust side and back, NOT TOP.

But we can go back&forth all day long and won't do didly unless OP does some testing.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

Hi there

Computers have software called an operating system (which includes device drivers and protocol stack) to manage resources and resolve contentions. That's basic CompSci 101.

Regards

I am aware of that since at one point my career I was a member of and later manager of an operating system development project team for a multi processor military command and control center system.
I think there is a contention problem since two clock time critical video programs are trying to both have their content processed concurently by either the switch or the system and since they can't the content of one of them has to have frames dropped
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphyne View Post

Even though it still continued to successfully record two HD shows in their entirety long after the freeze?

Hi there

Isn't that new info?
I was wondering what happened wrt those recordings.
These salient details are getting posted piecemeal.

Regards
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post

But OP says his sensors show OK temperature.

Hi there

Yeah, I sort of overlooked that. Somehow I took it to mean that he hadn't previously noticed high temps. He did not specify that at the time of failure the temps were still "normal".

>Another equipment on top ...

Placement is not the issue. The additional equipment in the cabinet is a heat source, not a heat sink.

> But we can go back&forth all day long and won't do didly unless OP does some testing.

Yep.

Regards
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
I agree. And for what it is worth I am either going to move the HTPC to another room (open air environment) or do some agressive air ducting.
post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok, tonight. recordign two HD streams, no betflix and trying to watch one of the HD shows that was currently recording and similar freezing occured. After the recording was done. I thought the issue went away but it did not. So this doesn;t answer it but it narrows it down.
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