Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 310

It's not necessarily a feature of Audyssey, just a byproduct of it typically making cuts and then boosting to compensate. Some people see low end lifted as much as 8dB.

I'm not sure what flavor of Audyssey Tony has though.

MultEQ

Ah, you were talking about low end tilt; I was referring to the full range.

Could you guys take a look at my hookup and provide feedback? I'm not sure if it is wired correctly and there are more knobs than I know what to do with. My post is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21115326

Thanks Ricci for moving on to something bigger and better. I'll take your leftovers anytime! Well at least your audio gear.

Just finished my kit, and did some initial hook up and testing I am having some problems maybe someone could shed some light on.

My mains are horn speakers and around 102db/1w I am running each speaker with a crown xti-1000, the sub is also running on a xti-1000 set to bridge mode, each woofer is wired normally to a set of binding posts(2 all together) then normally to the amp, which according to my understanding of Ivan's post will put them correctly out of polarity while the amp is in bridge mode, this should be somewhere to the tune of 1000watts in bridge mode, and should break my house apart lol. The power amps are being fed by a Yamaha C-4 preamp which has 2 sets of outputs, which I am running rca to xlr's to each amp. In order to get even close to high/moderate output from the Danley I have to set it's gain to full open, and my mains amps gain to around 2 clicks from bottom and pushing the yamaha to around 85% on the volume knob, this will give me some decent audible output from the Danley but the amp it hitting it's clipping/thermal light on hard bass hits. Now my placement is poor right now, as I am testing this in my open living room, and it is sitting on my fireplace ledge with the port facing into the room, but until I get my theater finished it's about the only out of the way spot I have.

Any ideas, should I raise the gain in the amp programing, all I have done so far is put a 48db butterworth at 70hz. I did under first testing discover a leak on one seam, which I have glued with pl and it now sounds better sq wise but in terms of output this made no real perceivable difference. I also have a pioneer receiver that is eventually going to be hooked up, perhaps the Yamaha isn't getting the job done, but I doubt this as I am using the exact same amps and my mains will get more then loud enough to make people leave the room at about 25% on the volume knob with wide open gain on the crowns. Worst case I have another xti-1000 I could run one bridged to each woofer.

Thank you for your help.

Another amp is not necessary. Something in your chain is causing this. You mention the 48db butterworth at 70hz, I'm not sure I'm understanding? Is that a 48db cut above 70hz? Is it a hard line at 70 or does it start below? if so...that could be the culprit. What are you applying the filter with? Maybe there's a gain in that?

FWIW, my gains on the amp are at 100% and my processor gain is right about in the middle (0). My amp is running one channel to each DTS10 in parallel.

I had troubles myself in getting them amplified correctly. With each change it would sound okay, but I wondered. When you get the electronics chain right, you won't question if it's right. It will be obvious.

Sorry, no real solution here...but this thread has been so dead that I can't help myself.

I lack an spl meter, planning on getting a mic and mixer/phantom power to play with REW but budget needs to catch up first. I don't think I should swap polarity as that would put me in phase with the woofers. I am only running a single rca/xlr into the amp, would this be a culprit? To be more clear, it is wired like this

Source->Yamaha C4

Output 1:
Left-> rca/xlr->crown amp 1(INPUT 1)->Left main
Right->rca/xlr->crown amp 2(INPUT 1)->Right main

Output 2:
Left-> rca/xlr->crown amp 3(INPUT 1)

The crown is set to bridge mono, the speaker wires are connected normally red to red black to black, then ran to the sub which has 2 sets of binding posts, each wired red to red, black to black, in my understanding due to being set to bridge the amp reverses the polarity for me and everything else should be wired as normal.

Tony I amp using the crowns software(HiQ) crossover setting to cross the sub on the high end at 70hz with a very steep 48db/octive butterworth setting. Also I am using jubscalas so not so different from your mains efficiency wise.

If I set all amps to open gain and listening at a very loud volume, then switch off the mains out put on the yamaha the Danley is barely audible, like I would have to be 2-3 feet from it to even hear it over room noise. While if I crank it up massively I am getting decent out put but the amp is hitting it's clipping light. When I get home I'm going to try and put the pioneer in the chain instead of the yamaha, still very curious.

I'll give it a shot for sure.

I do remember being at the point you are now. All logic was telling me I had the polarities correct, I tried swapping and it solved the output issues for me.

So Home now, tried swapping either woofer to out of phase, and the only thing that did was somehow make the sub rattle internally, I do not know, I'm going to attempt to make a xti file with just a slopping 24db butterworth x-over cut off at 90hz bridge mono and nothing else in it and see if it makes a difference, then I'll try two amps, I wonder if maybe my internal baffles have a leak or something, because my output is next to nothing unless clipping and even then while I know LF isn't perceived as loud as higher information, I can't imagine this thing is hitting much over 80-85db's. If the amps don't work, I'll try my pioneer receiver instead of the yamaha, if that doesn't work I get to find out just how much fun, tearing apart a box full of PL glue is, joy to me

Maybe start by eliminating all filters? Strip your signal chain to its simplist form. Have you used the amp before? Can you rule out an amp issue? Try running one channel to the Danley and then swap for the other channel.

No filters the only thing is the crossover point which is a very steep butterworth, anyway tried two amps in various polarity of wiring, nothing doing, man I think I might need to tear this thing apart. We are talking Just under clipping, on two separate xti's so basically 1000watts per channel into 8ohm. I can kinda hear the bass standing outside the front door that's it. I must have some kinda leak internally or something, this is maddening, I have went all around the outside seams, and are leaks I can feel/hear, so idk, really wanted to spend my weekend listening not building this monster a 2nd time.

Things I have tried:
switching wire polarity, a 2nd xti, 2 xti's at once then switching polarity, different output channels on the yamaha, left, right, Left+Right on both outputs, tried y input with 1 xlr on the amp, with two xlr's, stereo with two, sum 1+2, with both, tried running the crowns totally and completely as power amps with no crossover, seems to make zero difference, I think I must have gotten something wrong inside the thing did not fit together especially well. Man if this turns out to user error as I'm sure it is I really hate myself today.

If your cabinet fit together square, then I think the chances of internal leaks are slim....maybe a leak at the drivers? In which case you don't need to take anything apart. Hope it's something easy for you.

My cabinet did not in fact fit together perfectly square, I filled said gap with glue, so yeah how screwed am I, can PL be taken off with a utility knife? Man oh man, I hope I didn't just burn 1200 bucks.

Although it shouldn't be the case everybody has a definition of square, so when you mention it didn't go together 'perfectly square' your tolerance for such a fit might be more then most who might say 'good enough'...

So any chance you can elaborate on what part of the construction didn't go together as you expected it should have? I have 2 of these to put together and with this kit as developed as it is and CNC cut it should go together without much problem as long as no pieces are not warped before assembly.

Did you test the drivers before assembly and is there any chance the wiring connections or gauge of wire used for these connections is not up to the task?

I guess my only other question is did you do something when building or assembling the DTS that deviates from the plan?

When I put mine together I used a speed square to ensure everything went together perfectly square that the final panel would drop on without any issues. Well, I still had to use a rubber mallet to get it to fit in all the grooves like it was supposed to.

What is the acoustical delay due to the horn itself. I know it's been posted here before but can't seem to find the answer now. I seem to remember it's 6ms but just want to check.

Also, any thoughts about blending the DTS-10 with (my existing) direct radiating sub? Am I naive to think that I can use something like the Behringer DSP 110 to delay my existing sub by the horn delay (and taking into account any physical distance differences to the listening position from each sub) to get a good blend? My thought then is to set the sub distance in my pre-pro as the DTS-10 physical distance to listening position plus the distance that equates to the horn delay.

Thanks

Gene

The delay is either 9 or 15 ms, I forget which; search this thread for posts by Tom Danley to find it.

I used a MiniDSP to successfully match a DTS-10 with a sealed 18", so it can be done.

Be careful with the ~54 Hz peak; it's very sharp and may not be at exactly that freq.

On mine it was at about 52 1/2 Hz, and being off by even .5 Hz will mean you can't kill it all the way.

The 1 Hz resolution on setting the MiniDSP straddled the peak and left it a few dB high.

Noah - Thanks. I did find Tom Danley's post finally. Its #2411. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2411 The delay is 9.3ms but Tom explains that the matching process isn't as straight forward as i had hoped. It appears that a bit of trial and error is required, playing with both dealy and phase.

Id strongly consider testing your voltage you are getting out of your rca->xlr cable. Home receivers and pro amps dont always work well together, mine didnt, crown or behringer. I ended up having to get a signal converter to boost the output of the receiver to an acceptable level for the crown (for my mains) and the behringer. The denon just didnt output near enough juice to get barely any sound. soon as I put the signal box in line, BOOM i was rockin and rolling. Now i dont have DTS-10's but that makes no difference here. I could almost guarantee you the problem is earlier in your chain than the subwoofer itself.

Earth to Brandon Nash... You still alive out there Broseph? Can you add a link to Tom's post #2411 about the delay to the first post of the thread so people can find it easier later on? Thanks.

is there anyone near Wetumpka Al that can come over and run REW and hook up a Mini DSP in my system? Im willing to pay.

I wish I could help because it's always fun doing that stuff, but I'm a bit too far away. It's super easy to setup both. Do you have a meter etc?

Only thing I have is a spl meter.

Sorry I did not reply to your PM. This is a little too complicated for me to explain but I think you have some to the right place. I think getting it set up with EQ is a good plan.

I cant even find a professional travelling calibrator who knows anything about the mini dsp.

Well it would help to know the model number of your spl and whether it has an audio out? A camera tripod will help too if you have one. They highly recommend you get an external usb sound card for your pc/mac. That's an expensive endeavor and one I chose not partake. Other than that you just need a few cables and to install the software. REW and the miniDSP work together, so when you setup measurements in REW, you smooth out your response curve and send it over to the miniDSP. There's probably a forum dedicated to this, but there's plenty of write-ups on the web. I ran through it a couple times and was able to get 3 subs to work well together.