or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 315

post #9421 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post

Is everyone accounting for the Rather long path length of the horn with the correct group delay at crossover point?

Group delay and regular propigation/time of flight delay are two different things.

Put simply-Group delay is the rate of change of of the phase.

Time of flight delay is the difference in the time the signal is produced-until it reaches a particular point in space.

With the Tapped horn-the "time of flight" is not the total path length. Nor is it the path length from the "other side" (direct output side) of the drivers.

It is "somewhere in between". And it changes with freq.

There is more to just "accounting for the delay". You also have to consider the phase response with the mains-around crossover. If you get one of those dead on-but the other is off-you could have a huge hole in the response.

On the other hand-if each one is a little bit off-you have a have a decent response through crossover.

And once you start to "account for" the time of flight-that would assume that the subs and the mains are in the same location. If they aren't, then as you move to different seating locations-the time difference between the two is going to change.

Not trying to be picky-but there are often many more things to consider when "setting up a system"-rather than just a single point-or single location-unless that is all that is important to you. And sometimes a single point is the most important-other times not.
post #9422 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post

Have you measured the dts-10s to make sure there is no air leak?

I haven't done measurements, but don't think there's a air leak. I would describe the bass as brutal once you move away from the room center. I also tested the first one out after building in another room and it knocked a light bulb out of its socket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post


It looks as if you have spent a lot of money on your setup, I would strongly recommend you purchase a mic and learn REW.

I plan on buying a mic and learning REW. From reading this thread, I realize that these subs will not be plug and play...definitely have some learning to do. You guys will be hearing a lot more from me in the near future as I go through this learning process!

Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post

Do you have treatments installed like corner traps? Those should help as well.

No corner traps right now. The back side walls have doors on either side and the front wall has the Danleys. If moving the Danelys to center of room works out, then I would build traps in the front corners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieMike View Post

Try removing (or simply moving back) and see how that works.

Thanks for the suggestion, wasn't sure how the insulation on/around the subs would affect bass response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

Have you tried the "sub crawl"? You may want to give that a quick try too.

Can I do the sub crawl test with any sub or does it have to be the Danley? I have a couple of much smaller Atlantic Tech 642e subs I could use for the test.
post #9423 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post


I found the bass to be anemic and underwhelming through the center of the room, all the way from the back wall to the front of the room. But, very heavy if I stood near the side wall on either side. The contrast is drastic. I tried running just one DTS-10 and had same result.

I've been trying some different things with the Danley's this morning.

1) Removed insulation on subs. Did not hear a noticeable improvement with my issue.

2) Switched mouth to front facing. Not much difference in original corner locations.

3) Moved subs to center of stage with mouth to center inside...mouths are side by side facing into the room. See red in image below for mouth locations. I ran a quick Audyssey setup as well. When both subs are running in this new location there's not much of a improvement. However, when only one sub is on, there is now bass in the center of the room and bass at side wall is not as heavy/boomy. Overall much more even distribution...big improvement.

I guess having the two mouths sitting side by side is causing them to cancel each other out?

I'm thinking the next step is to seperate the subs some and see if I can get the same results with both on?

post #9424 of 10012
Thread Starter 
Check to make sure they're wired correctly. If its louder with only one sub you probably have the wires twisted.

And no, 2 subs next to each other shouldn't cancel, it should couple them which would make them louder.
post #9425 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

However, when only one sub is on, there is now bass in the center of the room and bass at side wall is not as heavy/boomy. Overall much more even distribution...big improvement.

I guess having the two mouths sitting side by side is causing them to cancel each other out?

Like Brandonn says, it sounds like one is wired out of phase with respect to the other. Try flipping the polarity of the inputs to only one of the subs and see what happens...
post #9426 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Like Brandonn says, it sounds like one is wired out of phase with respect to the other. Try flipping the polarity of the inputs to only one of the subs and see what happens...

Reversed wiring on one of the subs...now working correctly...not cancelling each other out. Having them in center with mouths facing forward seems to work best...give most even bass response.
post #9427 of 10012
So does that mean they are giving adequate output now?
post #9428 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post

So does that mean they are giving adequate output now?

Oh yes, no shortage of output now. Definitely not balancing with my mains...will start the process of learning/setting up my miniDSP soon.
post #9429 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

Oh yes, no shortage of output now. Definitely not balancing with my mains...will start the process of learning/setting up my miniDSP soon.

Can you tell me the dimensions of your room?

Thanks!
post #9430 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Can you tell me the dimensions of your room?

Thanks!

Room is 16' W x 24' L with 8' ceiling.
post #9431 of 10012
Starting to learn how to use the MiniDSP. I have the 2way advanced plugin and trying to apply the Danley filters below as a starting point.

Filters -
PEQ minus 8.4dB @ 55Hz, Q=8.9 BW=0.162 BFD=9.7
PEQ minus 4.6dB, @ 29Hz, Q=5 BW=0.2881 BFD=17.3
PEQ minus 7.5dB @ 84Hz, Q=2.8 BW=0.5125 BFD=30.8
PEQ minus 14.4dB @ 154Hz, Q=1.1 BW=1.2701 BFD=76.2

Not sure if I'm plugging these numbers in correctly. I plugged the first three values of each line into the parametric EQ lines (1-4)...see first image below for resulting curve.

I have no idea what to do with the last two values (BW and BFD). Where do these two values go?

I used the input parametric EQ (before crossover). Should I be using the output parametric EQ (after crossover) instead?

Filter type should be set to peak?



On crossover settings - set high pass to 13 hz and filter type to BW 24db/oct. Correct? See image below showing my settings.

post #9432 of 10012
I'm starting to get serious about getting my (single) DTS-10 EQ'd and blended with my main speakers. Below is a frequency response sweep of my DTS-10 in my listening room (alone and no EQ). This is the power average response from ~20 separate measurements taken over my listening area (3' X 10' area).

What I find most difficult is the dip in the response around 43Hz. Is this typical or is this my room?
LL
post #9433 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by genefass View Post

I'm starting to get serious about getting my (single) DTS-10 EQ'd and blended with my main speakers. Below is a frequency response sweep of my DTS-10 in my listening room (alone and no EQ). This is the power average response from ~20 separate measurements taken over my listening area (3' X 10' area).

What I find most difficult is the dip in the response around 43Hz. Is this typical or is this my room?

That's your room. You may want to reposition your sub.
post #9434 of 10012
This thread is stale!

Almost finished but here's a preview of two DTS-10s stacked...


Presenting what we now call

"Monolith Horn"


post #9435 of 10012
Pretty happy with the end result.



MONOLITH Horn

-dual dts-10s in stacked formation

-exit ports coupled for maximum output

-load bearing latches (rated for 1100 lbs) secure the two units together

-14ga square steel tubing bolted to two seperate roof trusses and 4 points

on the Monolith with 5/16" bolts, fender washers and locknuts

-square tubing is buffered from wall with four large 76mm longboard clear

skateboard wheels

-each unit has 10awg belden wiring running mono 4Ohm in it's own Behringer EP4000

-units were covered in black leather then a wall mural. The bottom strip piece of the mural was a test and has been on a few months. The other sections are still bonding and will match the white over time.

-variable tuning cat not included






post #9436 of 10012
autox320,

Love the film image you've put on the speaker. Did you take that photo? Also dig on your fireplace. I used to have a cat that looked just like that. He was a stray and I named him Sam.

Nice looking build.
post #9437 of 10012
Thanks. We named him Oliver. Mural of the film is from http://www.eazywallz.com/
post #9438 of 10012
Is that a basement or your kitchen?
post #9439 of 10012
umm... kitchen

Theater is the living room. Everything has to be re-enforced and or thought out with LF in mind. Luckily the house is overbuilt with 6" walls etc.
Screen is 115" 235:1.


post #9440 of 10012
There is a certain insanity to that. I like IT!
post #9441 of 10012
Nice, how does it sound to you? Are you using EQ for the subs?
post #9442 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by parapet View Post

Nice, how does it sound to you? Are you using EQ for the subs?

B I G

Danley recommended filters in the BFD. If I remember right i'm boosting 32hz by 3db or so instead of minus.

We've had the single dts-10 there for over a year without a problem. Stacked the other and I had to back it off the sub level out of the receiver by -3db. Backed off both amp gains a tick mark also. Basically dual doesn't have to run as hard as a single for the same output. Demo played Tron Legacy and it was absolutely insane. . . we were in the grid

My next project is to tether the projector with the safety cable just in case.
post #9443 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

For my room, it was a completely different ballgame once I employed an EQ. Audyssey by itself left me underwhelmed. My old Velodyne blew away my pair of DTS10's.
My EQ isn't perfect, but it truely is night and day running them with or without. I'm up to at least 10 of those Velodynes.
It also went a long ways in balancing response across my room. My front row was about 12db anemic, now all seats are within 3db at most all frequencies. I wouldn't make any judgement until the minidsp is in the loop.


This is room dependent, but I moved mine to dozens of locations and the center front wall worked best for me.


I agree that removing that insulation on the DTS10's is an easy place to start. Remove it from the equation and put it back after you've got them tuned up well.


Here's a photo of my final configuration. Similar to your last sketch.


Hi Tony, my layout will be very close to yours, minus one Danley. I have the triangle insulation traps in the corner as you do, so I also cannot corner load my Danley. It looks like you have yours port facing the wall, did you insulate the wall area that faces the port or leave that as a hard surface? Do you have port at high side or port at floor level? I will have non AT fabric panel (black velvet) at floor level, I didn't know if that would block some of the sound.
post #9444 of 10012
nebrunner,

Sorry it's taken awhile. My schedule is crazy and I only get on the forum once a week at best.

Mine are firing at the front wall of the room. Ports are on the bottoms and each towards the center. The front wall does have 1" of linacoustic treatment, which probably doesn't effect the subs at all.

Mine did not perform well when placed towards the outside of the room.

I don't think the velvet will effect performance audibly. The parts of my front wall that aren't screen (very little of it) is covered in GOM Anchorage, and I can't tell a difference when all panels are removed.

Hope that helps. smile.gif
post #9445 of 10012
Thanks Tony, that helps a lot. Do you think you have about a foot of space between the ports and the wall?
post #9446 of 10012
I think slightly less...maybe 10".
post #9447 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

nebrunner,
Sorry it's taken awhile. My schedule is crazy and I only get on the forum once a week at best.
Mine are firing at the front wall of the room. Ports are on the bottoms and each towards the center. The front wall does have 1" of linacoustic treatment, which probably doesn't effect the subs at all.
Mine did not perform well when placed towards the outside of the room.
I don't think the velvet will effect performance audibly. The parts of my front wall that aren't screen (very little of it) is covered in GOM Anchorage, and I can't tell a difference when all panels are removed.
Hope that helps. smile.gif

I ended up with a setup very similar to this as well. Danleys in center, ports on bottoms towards center. My ports are facing in towards listening position and even though they are mostly below the screen I still get some very noticeable screen shake at times...bass during Magneto scenes on Xmen first class were shaking screen this weekend. It could just be the subs are shaking the whole screen wall and not the port air causing the trouble, but won't know for sure until I get around to reversing the ports...thought it worth mentioning.

IMGP5350-1.jpg
post #9448 of 10012
DJ, that looks great! My screenwall shakes with the ports pointed away from it, so I'm certain it's not due to the port air flow. I've had to put extra bracing around my projector as well. My sconces were also a terrible choice, the Danleys shake the hell out of them. Had to put felt bumpers in all my cabinet doors too.
post #9449 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

DJ, that looks great! My screenwall shakes with the ports pointed away from it, so I'm certain it's not due to the port air flow. I've had to put extra bracing around my projector as well. My sconces were also a terrible choice, the Danleys shake the hell out of them. Had to put felt bumpers in all my cabinet doors too.

I figured it's a long shot that the port air is the screen shake culprit. I will try switching the ports to at least see if output is increased. Overall, I think having the Danleys on the sand filled stage and using whisper clips/hat channel has reduced a lot of the shaking in the room. My sconces only shake when I really crank the volume up and I do get some occasional noise from my doors...looking into that one. My projector is secured to the hat channel in the ceiling and I think it's well isolated, but your comment about adding extra bracing to your projector makes me think I should re-investigate and see if any of the screen shake is actually my projector moving.
post #9450 of 10012
What is.the minimum depth needed to have the port wall facing? I only have about 3 or 4 inches of room. Less than what I thought I had.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit